Federer wants faster surfaces

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Steve0904, Nov 12, 2012.

  1. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    SOURCE: http://www.tsn.ca/tennis/story/?id=409373






    My thoughts on this are as follows:

    This will sound like sour grapes from Fed given its timing, but I've always agreed with him in this regard, but I can almost guarantee that fans of the other 3 won't. He's not saying all the courts should be fast, he's just asking for some variety. There are probably too many HC's as it is, and almost all of them are too similar IMHO, not to mention the grass is slower. Think of it this way if you're a fan of 1 or more of the other 3. It should prolong their careers, and that would be better for everyone.

    So what does everybody else think?
     
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  2. SoBad

    SoBad Legend

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    How about a modest condo in a quiet retirement community in Florida - has he considered that?
     
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  3. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Fed realizes he isn't going to win anything of significance anymore without a fast surface so obviously this for his own personal benefit.. But I agree with him, there should be a some fast surfaces. Wimbledon, YEC, and Flushing should have stayed. We have enough slower courts during the first hard court swing and clay season.. Thats half the season.. Thats enough


    One of the great things about tennis before was guys had to deal with both conditions (fast and slow) during the first and second half of the season.. Now its the same old slow crapola year round. It breeds complacency, no game plan, no implementation of new strategy.. NOTHING.. its a free ride for slow court grinders

    People think I'm crazy when I say were going to have 4-5 more players in the next 10 years win the career grand slam.. But this is the reason why its going to happen. When Prior it was done ONCE in 30 some years?
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
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  4. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

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    Given that he's world number 2, was number 1 for a few months this year, won 3 masters series titles, Wimbledon, and had very consistent results all year, I'd say that retirement is the last thing on his mind.

    He could easily have won the match today if he'd served better at the crucial moments. I expect he'll be disappointed and angry with himself for not winning the match.

    Don't expect Federer to go anywhere for a good while yet.
     
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  5. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    well apparently he said the WTF is one of the fastest indoor courts and he wants slow and fast, so it doesn't sound like he's blaming the loss on the court speed, maybe he was asked about players becoming so good at defending
     
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  6. SoBad

    SoBad Legend

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    Perhaps the reason why retirement is the last thing on his mind is because there are serious problems with his brain.
     
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  7. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

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    You are seriously bad my friend. :twisted:
    But no retirement yet for the big four. Maybe in 7 years time once I'm fed up with their rivalries.
     
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  8. Goosehead

    Goosehead Hall of Fame

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    i was expecting federer to come into the net way more than he actually did..still too much trading shots from the baseline from fed, he has the skills to do it more.

    that would shorten things..but its obvious the courts are getting slower, in a way it helps federer..if he is out of position because maybe he is a bit slower or tired than the old days..it gives him a split second longer to reach that shot if the ball isnt skidding through..

    the downside being longer rallies with the baseline boys, unless....fed comes to the net more...:?:confused: its all up to fed that is.
     
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  9. Sabratha

    Sabratha G.O.A.T.

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    Federer wants to speed up the courts so he can win more? Is that what this is about?
     
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  10. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, well, if the game ends up as an entirely defensive one upon Federer's retirement then it will be to the detriment of the game.
     
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  11. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, because winning a GS and making the final of WTF is a good indicator that it's time to retire.
     
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  12. kragster

    kragster Hall of Fame

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    No sane tennis fan can argue with the statement that we need more variety. Varying speeds varying bounce varying wind conditions etc.

    Incidentally I think the homogenization of surfaces has also meant a faster RG which has been bad for the true dirtballers like Monaco, while guys like isner take a set off Nadal !
     
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  13. JustBob

    JustBob Hall of Fame

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    He's right. No wonder that the top 5, aside from Federer, are all glorified pushers. No need for talent and shotmaking ability because it will be neutralized by endless baseline retrieving. So you get 4-5 hour matches on so-called fast hard courts with 20+ shot rallies which invariably end up with an error. Not to mention that the length of matches has been steadily increasing, which will lead to more injuries and shortened careers.
     
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  14. Gizo

    Gizo Hall of Fame

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    There needs to be more of a balance between fast and slow surfaces on the tour. Deep down every tennis fan knows Federer is correct whether they like him or loathe him.

    It's like peope knew Nadal was correct when he was saying that there is far too much hard court tennis on the calendar.

    If I had my way, every indoor tournament on the calendar would be held on carpet instead of hard courts. There are already so many tournaments held on outdoor hard, why do there need to be so many indoor hard tournaments as well?

    There are just way too many slow hard court tournaments on the ATP calendar, and slow hard courts are the most dangerous and damaging surface to/on players' bodies as well.
     
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  15. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    The 90s conditions are the only way to go.. A varying distinct difference between all surfaces all throughout the year..This makes dominating all through the year much more difficult. You have to adopt different strategies and game plans.. You have to develop more of an all court game.

    Tennis has gone downhill in this regard.
     
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  16. Sabratha

    Sabratha G.O.A.T.

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    The 90s: Where every year you have a new winner at Roland Garros!
     
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  17. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    You can't go back to the 1990s because the racquet and string technology is different. Tennis changes and evolves by going forwards, not backwards.
     
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  18. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    You had different winners at a lot of places (outside of Sampras at wimbledon and to a lesser degree USO) but the conditions broke up the monotony of 2-3 guys dominating everything because of homogenized conditions.. Made it way more exciting to me.

    It was exciting to see a lot of different threats and names to the potential throne throughout the season.
     
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  19. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    So 20 shot pusher rallies at every tournament without lack of all court prowess, strategy,etc. the ENTIRE year is going forward?

    OK i guess. Some people love it.. Not everyone has to though
     
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  20. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    The modern technology enables players to dictate with authority and depth from their own baselines in a way they never could in the 1990s, let alone in decades before that.
     
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  21. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Past racket technology and diversified conditions prohibited players from hitting winner 10 feet beyond the baseline, 20 shot rallies from the baseline all match, and forced players to use THINKING, strategic play, net rushing, chip and charge, precision and placement and more all court play etc.. THings some could argue is severely missing from the game today
     
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  22. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    When players with today's equipment can hit balls with this depth and authority, as well as with such spin, the variety of the game gets less. In the 1990s, even in the gruelling rallies on clay, there wasn't this power and depth that we see today. Charging into the net is now more difficult than ever. In contrast, if we go back to the 1960s, staying back was never harder and you were compelled to go to the net a lot.
     
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  23. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    In the 1990s, the anti-change brigade said "there's too much power in the game. We need to go back to the era when talent mattered, not power", yet the power of the 1990s game is soft compared to the 2010s game.
     
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  24. JustBob

    JustBob Hall of Fame

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    Faster courts would lessen the baseliner's ability to dictate play. You might not achieve the variety of the 90's but you would still have more variety (with less surface uniformization).
     
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  25. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    I doubt it personally, because with the modern technology, players can just dictate with depth from their own baselines so well. It has made the old school serve and volley game extremely difficult to execute. And even in the 1990s, players like Sampras and Becker regularly stayed back and rallied on hardcourts.
     
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  26. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Lol Fed getting desperate. Not gonna enjoy AO much either Fed, are you? :twisted:
    In Madrid, he was raving about how he could adjust to any surface so well and how lacking other players were who couldn't. Look how he's changing his mind now. Players should have total flexibility to adjust to any surface as long as they're fast. Sure, Fed, sure. I am quite enjoying this :)
     
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  27. JustBob

    JustBob Hall of Fame

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    Well, I'm not saying S&V would be back (it won't), but you'd see shorter rallies, more winners, more net play and a generally more offensive game on faster surfaces. You already see that at the few so-called fast HC tournaments left (Cincy and what's the other one... Dubai?).
     
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  28. firepanda

    firepanda Professional

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    More variety I agree with. I always found fast courts boring, though.
     
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  29. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    You'd see serve fests and 1/2 shot rallies and no one other than a handful of TW posters wants to see that.
    I said that in another thread but medium paced is the way to go: give equal opportunity to offense and defense. Most entertaining tennis guaranteed.
     
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  30. kalyan4fedever

    kalyan4fedever Hall of Fame

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    He is indirectly saying djokovic is a pusher which indeed he is apparent from the last match, his strategy seems simple just put the ball in court and wait for the error which anyone can see if they watched match clearly -truth. The top pusher awards from top 4 should be given to 1. Murray 2. joker hence these guys matches are always not predictable. Once you go slow there is no going back feddy. we are stuck with insanely slow courts.
     
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  31. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Sour grapes much? Djoko is a complete player. That's why he's #1.
     
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  32. kalyan4fedever

    kalyan4fedever Hall of Fame

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    Not sour grapes, i have nothing against novak he followed his strategy implemented it and won but are you saying djoker did not push his way to victory ?
     
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  33. ultradr

    ultradr Hall of Fame

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    Yep. I agree. I think 70s - 90s conditions had most varieties and thus much
    tougher to win multiple slams.

    We had slow high bouncing clay, low bouncing skidding fast grass, medium bouncing medium slow Australian hard courts, medium fast, medium low bouncing US Open courts, really quick indoor carpets. It was truly hard to dominate on all surfaces. Now it's all converged to medium slow surfaces, one big homogeneous surface.

    It's ironical that Federer himself benefited when Wimbledon and US Open
    slowed down their courts from 2001 - 2003.

    In fact, Federer himself complained US Open courts are so fast "unplayable" in 2003.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
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  34. SQA333

    SQA333 Professional

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    Novak is an A grade grinder who benefits from pure luck. By that I mean whenever he's losing, his hit-em-as-hard-as-you-can shots somehow find the lines.

    By the way, he also sucks at net. And at overhead smashes (just look at how many he's missed this year on big moments, especially against Nadal on clay). He's a terrible player in the wind as well.
     
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  35. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    In a way, though homogenization does present different challenges (there's no safe haven where you can serve people off court and keep points short)

    That's debatable, you're convinced he wouldn't have the same or similar results, I'm not, I consider him very adaptable so I wouldn't put it past him to dominate even in the 90s conditions.

    Fed won his his first Wimbledon serve and volleying on almost every 1st serve (he probably serve and volleyed in that tourney more than the other current top players did in their entire career).

    No, he said in 2005 that the all the courts have gotten very slow and that there aren't anymore North American HCs that are unplayable from the baseline, he was also saying in those years that he would like to serve and volley more but doesn't think that conditions are ideal for it.

    Not to mention that over the years he has complained several times about the homogenization of the game and slowdown of surfaces.
     
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  36. Murrayfan31

    Murrayfan31 Hall of Fame

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    The surfaces are fine as they are Mr. Federer. Stop whining. Djokovic got the best of you.
     
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  37. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    He's very old, he's allowed to be a bit grumpy :)
     
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  38. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Of course not. Are you insane? Unless a pusher to you is a guy who doesn't serve ace on every point or winner on the second shot. You need to revise your definition because no one plays tennis like this at the highest level these days. (Except for Isner maybe and his game is a crashing bore.) Djoko's use of angles yesterday was particularly brilliant. Loved it.
     
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  39. decades

    decades Guest

    if I was going to be 32 and your 4 main rivals are about 6 years younger, I would want to get off the court faster too.
     
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  40. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Sure,he used the angles so well just to get one more ball back ad nauseum. Cvac plays some of the most boring,mindnumbing,robotic tennis on the tour. It's horrible from the word go.


    And I agree that the courts should be sped up a little. Tennis has turned into a game of neverending Pong. It's nearly impossible to hit winners anymore.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
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  41. decades

    decades Guest

    now the #1 player in the world and holder of 5 slams including a wimby title is a Pusher! rotflmao.
     
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  42. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Nadal has two Wimby titles,11 slams,and is considered a pusher. So why not Cvac?
     
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  43. ctoth666

    ctoth666 Professional

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    You know, Federer may come off as being arrogant at times, but that doesn't mean the man isn't right once in a while. He makes a very legitimate point, but perhaps the timing isn't so hot. Is what it is. I mean, the courts are moderately to very slow, and this isn't news.

    If he can use his star power to influence tournament directors to speed up courts for selfish reasons, than good for him but better for the game.
     
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  44. decades

    decades Guest

    everybody but rogi is a pusher right?
     
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  45. ultradr

    ultradr Hall of Fame

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    Yep. But harder to win multiple slams per year on truly heterogeneous surfaces.


    Nope. That's how he tried up until 2002. That's about how a baseline try on Wimbledon up until 2002. Then everybody switched to baseline after they saw how Federer wins from baseline.

    He also defended surface speed around 2005-6 when people criticized surface speed and claimed Federer dominated because surfaces favor baseliners.

    He predominantly played baseline on hard courts and indoor carpet even before
    2003.

    He also said he realized he serve and volley when he was nervous and found
    him winning more by doing that less.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
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  46. ultradr

    ultradr Hall of Fame

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    And I predict Federer decline faster if they make hard and grass courts faster.

    That was why he used to be vulnerable to counter attack from Nalbandian.
     
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  47. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Pure luck, hum? lol Apart from a few goofed up overheads, you're wrong about everything. He uses the net well, he's certainly not a ball basher a la Blake, he probably has the best backhand on the tour right now and he's an offensive baseliner (like most players these days) which is not the same as a grinder. Also shot placement has more to do with technique than luck. butthurt all the way today, aren't we? :) don't worry, you can always try summoning a hurricane next time he plays Fed although I remember a very windy Miami with a memorable Fed racquet destruction that went all Djoko's way in the end. :twisted:
     
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  48. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    But easier to win a slam when you're older, don't have to engage in grueling rallies on every surface.

    Missed the 2001 Wimbledon have we? Or maybe erased it from memory?

    No, that's how a baseliner would try on Wimbledon in the 90s conditions not in 2003's conditions, Hewitt and Nalbandian proved the year before you can easily play baseline tennis there now after the changes they've done to the surface/balls.

    Not really, they switched to the style conditions rewarded the most, nothing to do with Federer who as I said won Wimbledon by playing all-court tennis (atleast you could give him that much) in a year after Hewitt already won it from the baseline (and decimated Henman in SF).

    Nope, can't remember him saying that but I'll take your word for it.

    Federer didn't have a truly predominant style in those days, more of a baseliner yes but he experimented a lot and didn't really have a clear gameplan.

    And he also said he would do more serve and volley if the conditions rewarded it more, so what?
     
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  49. Sabratha

    Sabratha G.O.A.T.

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    So they slowed the courts down in 2004? Wasn't it after that time period? Say, 2008, when they slowed everything down?
     
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  50. Netspirit

    Netspirit Hall of Fame

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    Djokovic's net game, slice and overheads plain suck for a top-10 player. He does few things well, but does them very well. Putting the ball away is not one of them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
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