federer's backhand - broken down yet again

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by rod99, Aug 12, 2007.

  1. rod99

    rod99 Professional

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    this match was yet another example of a match federer lost primarily due to his backhand. everytime i see a thread on this board claiming that federer has one of the (or the best) best backhands in the game i laugh. sure, he's got a lot of variety and can hit some amazing shots with it, but it simply won't hold up against weapons like nadal's forehand or djokovic's fh/bh. he'll eventually make an error or drop the ball short. federer doesn't even have a top 10 backhand in the world. anyone who argues that statement hasn't watched enough of federer's matches.
     
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  2. AM28143

    AM28143 Semi-Pro

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    At times it is very good and at times it very bad. However, I must say late in slams (except for the French) rarely does one see Federer's backhand lose him matches. In Australia it was impeccable and during Wimbledon it was pretty good. It is just in this smaller tournaments that one sees Federer's backhand completely fall apart. It is obviously his weaker side however, I it is still top 10.
     
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  3. kabob

    kabob Professional

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    Oh, it's not in the top 10, eh? So name just 7 other players with a better, more consistent backhand if you're so sure of that :roll: Every time Feds loses, you Chicken Littles come out of the woodwork hollering that the sky is falling. Give it a rest, he'll do what he always does against a loss from someone not named Nadal: analyze it, internalize it, then win next week.
     
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  4. rod99

    rod99 Professional

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    i'm a federer fan but there are plenty of players with better backhands. he's got a good backhand but certainly not great. it's the rest of his game (forehand, movement, serve) that allows him to hide his weaker side and win almost everytime. as far as one-handers, gasquet, haas, ljubicic, gaudio (before his career went away), and youzhny all have superior backhands. for 2-handers, safin, nalbandian, stepanek, hewitt, and djokovic are all superior. that's just off the top of my head.
     
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  5. Chopin

    Chopin Hall of Fame

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    Federer's backhand is better than every player on that list with the exception of Nadal's on clay.
     
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  6. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    I don't think it was just his backhand that was off today. His forehand was also off. In fact, everything was off. And Djokovic just played a very smart and great match so all credit to Djokovic for giving Federer a very competitive match.
     
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  7. rod99

    rod99 Professional

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    uh, no it's not. not even close.
     
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  8. tennispro11

    tennispro11 Hall of Fame

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    Dude you must be on crack. How many of those guys with better backhands have a grand slam to their name? I know that there are 3 guys on that list who have won them. How many between them do they have? 5 So you are telling me that the guys with the better backhands can beat Federer head to head in a backhand rally. Some can do it when they are playing well but not on a consistent basis. In four years Federer has 21 losses to his name. So yeah I think your point is way off the mark.
     
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  9. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    The loss was really just a mental defeat.
    Federer has been fearing a close match with the joker like this one and that is why he was claiming that he was not impressed with his game because he did not know how to play the "big" points. Big point are TB minibreaks, and its not too ironic that the joker dominated both TB's in this win. How sweet is fate and eating your words. Now the joker has defeated Federer's mental challenge and a slam will follow in the future.
     
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  10. samster

    samster Legend

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    At least tennis is interesting and competitive to watch again.
     
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  11. rod99

    rod99 Professional

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    you're totally missing my point. federer's movement and forehand are so great that they allow him to run around his backhand and use his real weapons most of the time. if there was a backhand to backhand rally where you couldn't run around your backhand, i believe federer would lose to those guys more often than not. obviously federer's career is far and away better than the guys mentioned in my post b/c the rest of his game is so much better than any of them. people don't understand that you can be one of the all-time greats without every one of your shots being great (look at sampras with his backhand, mcenroe with his groundstrokes, connors with his serve, agassi with his net game, etc). you just have to have the weapons to protect the weaker areas of your game, and that's what federer has.
     
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  12. gonzo2000

    gonzo2000 Rookie

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    Hallelujah. What happened today is good for tennis. Fed's BH let him down today, big time.
     
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  13. tennispro11

    tennispro11 Hall of Fame

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    I agree with some of what you say. But on a good day when all the bells and whistles are blowing, Federer's backhand is amazing. I think that he could beat any of those guys that you listed easily, except for maybe Safin when he wasn't screwed up in the head. So yeah I agree with you a little bit but Federer has a more well-rounded game than Sampras or McEnroe or Connors. I don't think it would be a stretch to say that he is the most well rounded player on the tour today. But Djokovic will give him a run for his money in a year or two.
     
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  14. Mad iX

    Mad iX Semi-Pro

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    His bh is easily Top 10. It's just not as consistent as his forehand.
    Against some players it can be a weakness, especially Nadal when he's abusing it with his forehand.
    It is definitely a Top 10 backhand. When it's on, it's easily Top 2.
     
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  15. rod99

    rod99 Professional

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    incorrect. he has the variety and shotmaking but not the power or consistency of the top backhands in the game.
     
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  16. AM28143

    AM28143 Semi-Pro

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    Rod99 just admit you are wrong.
     
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  17. tennispro11

    tennispro11 Hall of Fame

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    Well said.
     
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  18. rod99

    rod99 Professional

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    opinions are opinions and i certainly won't admit my opinion is wrong. i'm a federer fan but some of you people think that everyone of his strokes are the best in the game. it's just not the case. i stand by my comment that if you took away the serve and forehand (basically drop feeding the start of the point and playing a backhand on both sides, assuming both backhands are equal), then federer would be outside the top 10.
     
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  19. tennispro11

    tennispro11 Hall of Fame

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    Wow all that deserves is a ................LOL.........................
     
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  20. akv89

    akv89 Hall of Fame

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    Federer's backhand is like Safin. It's amazing, but can get inconsistent. He does have one of the best backhands in the game when his backhand is working consistently. I've seen him do things with his backhand that looked impossible.
     
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  21. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    Fed's problems today were far more about the 2nd serve than his backhand. But most of his problems were having to do with Joker who is very hard to exploit and break down and whose game is still ramping up....Fed may have peaked.
     
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  22. rod99

    rod99 Professional

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    that's what i'm saying. he can hit some amazing shots with his backhand and b/c they are so amazing, that's what sticks in people's heads. people forget about the numerous errors, shanks, and short balls that his backhand gives up when it is attacked with a good shot.
     
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  23. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

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    I agree with Rod99.
     
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  24. netman

    netman Hall of Fame

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    Come on folks. Just admit Fed is human. Rafa always breaks Fed's cool at the FO and he almost broke Fed down mentally at Wimbledon. Djokovic did break through Fed's cool today. The Joker had nothing to lose today and stayed strong when it mattered.

    As it was well said earlier, men's tennis is getting interesting again.
     
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  25. ShcMad

    ShcMad Hall of Fame

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    What surprised me about Djokovic was the fact that he didn't play "out of his mind" today, but rather, he played within himself and within his own capabilities, yet he ended up victorious. Usually, in order to beat Federer, one has to play out of his mind and go for broke and hope the ball lands in. Djokovic played his usual game, and didn't overdo anything.
     
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  26. NadalandFedererfan

    NadalandFedererfan Banned

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    So Federer loses 1 match and suddenly he does not have a top 10 backhand. ROTFL! Nitwit trolls like rod99 just wait for his opportunity to pounce and somehow think they can push forward their ridiculous arguments which pretty much nobody agrees with.
     
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  27. rod99

    rod99 Professional

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    it was only a matter of time b/f this clown jumped on here spewing his ignorance.
     
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  28. NadalandFedererfan

    NadalandFedererfan Banned

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    Try it people. It works wonderfully. :)
     
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  29. tennispro11

    tennispro11 Hall of Fame

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    I like what you said. Don't put me on your ignore list. LOL! :p
     
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  30. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    Good point. Joker played very smart tennis especially for a 20 year old (is that how old he is?). He hit comfortably within himslef and mixed up the pace and got some UE's out of Fed just by hitting routione groundies, and he picked his places to rip really well

    As a followup to my earlier post, i checked the stats and fed only won 42% of his 2nd serves while Joker won 58% of his. To me, this was the difference in the match. The old adage "You're only as good as your second serve" couldnt be more true today. fed was clearly having troubles there and his MPH was really low on his 2nds at times..he usually has a much better second than that especially on a faster court. He was either not confident or has an injury.
     
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  31. NadalandFedererfan

    NadalandFedererfan Banned

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    Djokovic had a great tournament. He beat the #1 and #2 and #4 (will be #4 when new rankings comes out that is) all in a row to win the event. Give him applause and full credit for that. Federer was by far the closest to beating him of any of them, and probably was outwilled and outnerved more then anything else today.
     
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  32. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    good lord, now he's 'NadalandFedererfan.' I think half of all the posters here may be the same person.
     
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  33. tennispro11

    tennispro11 Hall of Fame

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    What are you talking about?
     
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  34. rosenstar

    rosenstar Professional

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    Rod99-
    I think you're measuring the ability of federer's BH incorrectly. In my opinion, the only way to truly measure the ability of a certain shot is to see how the player uses it in the rest of his game. this is why Fed's BH is sooooooooo good. All those names you mentioned are probably more likely to hit a winner off the BH than Federer is (on an average day). But none of them use the BH to set up the point like Fed does. If Fed's playing someone who doesn't like the net, he teases them with a slice BH, forces them to either take the net (which they don't want to do) or hit a weak shot that he can put away. He's done this countless times against Roddick, Davydinko, Hewitt, and many more. Sometimes he flattens out his BH, sometimes he rolls the ball at an incredible angle. although he doesn't always hit winners off that wing, it is more than effective than many other BH's and allows him to put himself in a position to win the point.

    Agassi's serve is very similar. I've always thought that agassi's serve (especially toward the end of his career) was one of his strengths, and one of the best serves out there. he didn't step up to the line and hit aces, but he placed it/spun it so he could start off the point at an advantage. Federer's backhand is the same way.

    If we were judging Fed's backhand purely on how many winners he can hit, then some of those you mentioned might be ahead of him, though in my opinion not many. but tennis isn't about hitting winners and you're allowed to hit more than just BH's, that's why your idea is completely ridiculous and has no truth to it.

    Finally, you're judging fed's BH purely on his "bad" days. You find the best backhand Fed's ever hit, and I guarentee you it's a million times better than any of those clowns' you mentioned before.
     
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  35. tennispro11

    tennispro11 Hall of Fame

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    Nicely Done.
     
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  36. rod99

    rod99 Professional

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    i'm not judging federer's backhand simply on how many winners he hits. like i've said many times, federer has great variety on his backhand and has a "good" overall backhand. i've seen him hit it very well in matches and horribly in others. in averaging these all out, i still don't think it's top 10 in the world. federer runs around his backhand whenever he can b/c his forehand is so awesome and he's aware that his backhand is attackable. if any of the guys i mentioned in the original post got in a backhand to backhand rally with federer (where no forehands could be used), i'd put $ that federer would come up the loser more often than not. everytime djokovic started pounding federer's backhand deep, i knew that an error or short ball would be forced, which is what happened. this has happened to him many time in the past. however it's a testament to the other parts of his game which have only allowed him to lose so few times during the last 4 years.
     
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  37. volleyandfun

    volleyandfun Professional

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    truce?


    Ok, here is my $0.02, Federer's B/H today was good and bad, good in a way he played and set up his points, and I agree with rosenstar, but i also agree with rod99 because Joker made fed to commit awfully many UE off his B/H side, and this is no brainer, 2 hands are better than 1 when it comes to 2HBH on deep shots with lots of pace.

    I used to play 1HBH and now I play 2HBH so I know this, depth and pace is not an issue for 2HBH but it is deadly for most, if not all 1HBH, and that's exactly what happened today with federer
     
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  38. Chopin

    Chopin Hall of Fame

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    I agree, Federer served poorly when it counted (a rarity). But let's be honest, Federer did not play anywhere near his best tennis today, he squandered away the first set on errors when it appeared he was going to routinely win it. No ones perfect. Federer's form this week was great, I think he's still very much in his prime, I'd be surprised if Federer does not win the U.S. Open (the only thing left this year that truly matters to him).
     
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  39. Chopin

    Chopin Hall of Fame

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    Federer's backhand is probably the best backhand in the game when he's on. It has incredible variety, creates great angles, is an amazing defensive shot for when he's out of position (are some of you forgetting how many balls Federer returns from way of court with his backhand, and then is suddenly back in control of the point?), it's incredibly effective in returning serve (come on, he blocks back Roddick's serves like they're nothing!). Does anyone remember the '06 Wimbledon final in which Nadal's strategy of going at Federer's backhand failed largely because Federer was able to hit incredibly low slices on the grass? It's a truly great shot and one of the reasons Roger has been so effective at Wimbledon.

    That being said, on clay, high balls to his backhand are difficult for Federer (Nadal's backhand is obviously much better on clay). And to the Joker's credit, he hit his backhand better than Federer did in the final. If Federer's backhand was "not top 10," there's no way he'd have dominated tennis the way he has, it's not like he runs around his forehand to avoid hitting his backhand like some hacker! When tennis junkies, coaches, legends and the like declare Federer the complete package with no real weaknesses, this includes his backhand which is a truly beautiful and effective stroke--a great stroke.

    Here is an excellent instructional piece by Stan Smith highlighting why Federer's backhand is such a great and technically sound stroke:

    http://www.tennis.com/yourgame/instructionarticles/backhand/backhand.aspx?id=38286
     
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  40. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    I too think Fed is in his prime. I just dont see him improving now the way nadal is or Joker is, and both play federer tough. Now that Joker has beaten Fed, that will perhaps cause some additional players to believe they can beat him as well..sometimes people think federer isnt human, and expect him to always play his best tennis..that just isnt possible

    I've noticed that Fed never plays his best on windy days, and it was windy today out there <at least early on>, and was very windy at Key Biscayne this year where Fed didnt play his best tennis either.
     
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  41. volleyandfun

    volleyandfun Professional

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    Beautiful, very pretty, but the only problem is this preparation in this form occurs only when player has adequate time to set up. in many cases they resort to off balance, out of position and less perfect shots, as the ones you get when your opponent hits the ball hard and away from you, as was the case today

    Everything is relevant to what your opponent throws at you
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2007
    #41
  42. volleyandfun

    volleyandfun Professional

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    Perhaps he should practise in Chicago for a while?
     
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  43. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    A backhand that is pretty unknown, no one comments about it, but IMO, is one of the best in the game, is Hrbaty's two hander.

    Powerful, damn solid, it doesn't break down, and he doesn't miss much off that wing (opposed to his forehand)

    But it's not flashy like Safin's, and the guy doesn't get much recognition, but his backhand is VERY good
     
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  44. tennis_nerd22

    tennis_nerd22 Hall of Fame

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    ever year tennis is 75% mental? federer is a smarter player than them. andy roddick has the hardest forehand on tour, harder than roger's. does that mean he can beat federer just because of one stroke? no. Just because federer's backhand is not that great compared to other top 10 or top 20 pro's, does that mean he'll lose? no. it just means that he's weaker there, but he can find ways around it.

    So yeah I think your point is way off the mark.
     
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  45. my_forehand

    my_forehand Professional

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    haha.HA!
    roddicks also has a harder server
     
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  46. Netbudda

    Netbudda Rookie

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    I like Djokovic "No quit" attitude and his great play. Federer really played poorly with all those unforced errors ( I believe he almost had 50 UE on a 3 set match !!!! ). The third set tiebreak was particularly ugly with Federer shanking almost every point. ( Stunning !!!! ) Djokovic hit an ace on the first point and then the drop shot lob combination on match point the other 5 points Federer just blew chunks. Congrats to Djokovic taking out Roddick, Nadal and Federer.
     
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  47. rosenstar

    rosenstar Professional

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    well, the thing is, tennis isn't played by hitting only backhands in a backhand rally, so your whole arguement is really senseless. no offense.
     
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  48. volleyandfun

    volleyandfun Professional

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    It's not senseless when this strategy makes opponent to produce errors, as it did with federer yesterday in Montreal, and you cannot argue that.
     
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  49. federerfanatic

    federerfanatic Banned

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    ROTFL! Federer's forehand is the best in the game, and there are atleast 20 guys with better forehands then Roddick now. Federer's forehand >>>> Roddick's forehand in every single way.
     
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  50. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    Gasquet will beat Federer in a backhand to backhand rally any day of the week. You are dumb if you really think that Federer can beat Gasquet in a backhand rally.


    Federer's backhand cannot take pressure. He will error more then likely if you constantly attack it, like Djokovic or Nadal does.



    Wimbledon 06 Federer still made plenty of errors off the backhand. Try again. Look up the stats. Only reason why Federer won because of his serve.


    It's a top 10 backhand on a good day, but I wouldn't put it in the top 5.
     
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