Federer's Four Slam Margin

Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by TennisBatman, Sep 9, 2013.

  1. TennisBatman

    TennisBatman Semi-Pro

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    How confident is the Federer camp that their man's 4-slam margin over Nadal will hold?

    It's different now that Federer is quickly moving out of slam contention, ever more feeling the twilight of his career, and Nadal is edging higher in contention for future slams, and with today's US Open win is only 4 behind Federer.

    Two months ago, the talk of the town was that Murray was gaining the edge in dominance with his recent wins. Now all of that has faded...

    Who would have guessed that the man to take the spotlight away from Murray was not to be Djokovic, but Nadal, who only one slam ago lost in the first round, and only two years ago was mired in a losing battle against Djokovic at the slam finals?

    Now, Federer has one less reason to feel at peace as he moves closer to retirement, and one more reason to feel anxious...
     
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  2. ledwix

    ledwix Hall of Fame

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    Nadal's prime is surprisingly lasting longer than Federer's did. He started earlier, had some patches of worse form like Federer did, but is really keeping it up. It looks like he will actually win those four more.

    It would be nice if guys ranked 5-12 had enough gusto to challenge the fitness and tenacity of the top 4 (Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Ferrer) though. These days, people say the finalists "got a cakewalk" practically every tournament.

    Nadal is now the best player of the Big 4 era (2008-2013) decisively while being the second best of the Federer era (2004-2007) as well.
     
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  3. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    After getting this close, you think the Rafa camp will not try to go for it?

    Depends on his health and how well Novak and Murray come back from defeat.
     
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  4. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    If I had to bet, I'd bet on 4 slam margin not holding up.

    Fed did the best he could but it looks like Nadal will surprass him in slam count.

    Not that I personally think it's that big of a deal, when Fed hangs up the racquet his beautiful tennis will be gone irregardless of whether his records hold up or not (nothing changes in that regard).
     
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  5. josofo

    josofo Semi-Pro

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    fed is going to be watching from the box with sunglasses on to keep us from seeing the shame of knowing he was never as good as nadal. when nadal wins number 18.
     
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  6. Antonio Puente

    Antonio Puente Hall of Fame

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    Spring of 2010:

    It was 16-6, Fed, and Nadal hadn't won a tournament in a year. Fed's goathood seemed assured for a generation.

    Fast forward 3 years:

    It's now 17-13, and Nadal is two good years(two FOs and two other slams) from goathood.
     
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  7. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    Personally it would be a titanic disappointment if Nadal didn't break Federer's 17 Slam streak. It's ONLY 5 more that he needs to break it. That's really not much for Nadal as he DEFINITELY has RG in the bag for at least another 4 years and he can bag another AO, USO and Wimby. Nadal SHOULD retire with 19 Slams at the least. The competition is not fierce. There's only an error-prone Djokovic in is way and the next generation of players are horrendous. Nadal will be active for another 6-7 years on the tour. Heck I'd be surprised if he doesn't win 20+ majors with the way he's going.:)
    If Serena can do it, why not Nadal?
     
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  8. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    It was a pleasure that we had 2 great players in the same era. When they're gone, there will be nobody to capture the imagination of the public. But Nadal should be around until 2020 at least.
     
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  9. doobiedoodoo

    doobiedoodoo Rookie

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    Federer won 4 slams from 28 and onward, which is what Rafa will be next year. Very possible Nadal will match and even break it.

    The argument for Fed fans will be Federer had Nadal, Djokovic and Murray 5-6 years younger to deal with. There ain't exactly any 22-23 year old guy entering his prime that looks like he can win 5+ slams right now.
     
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  10. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    The Main thing

    Is, that he shouldn't credit for it until he actually achieves it (if he does). Potential never counts.....only actual achievement
     
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  11. Doesn't matter to me. That was never the metric until Federer came into the picture anyway (and for Federer fans it wasn't the metric until Federer himself had that record). Nadal's 13 are the most impressive wins I've seen. He beats Djokovic for yet another major this year (he beat him in the semis of the FO as well).

    Nadal is winning his titles against the top tier competition. Federer racked up too many majors against guys like Roddick, Baghdatis and Hewitt. Nadal is taking his majors from Federer and Djokovic for the most part.

    Nadal is the best player I have yet to see, in terms of the total package. I am totally satisfied with where Nadal is, even if he never won another major.
     
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  12. CDNguy87

    CDNguy87 Hall of Fame

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    Looking at an age comparsion, Nadal is exactly tied with Federer at the same age (Fed also won his 13th Slam at the USO in 2008, when he was 27). Post-2008, Federer's Slams were:

    2009- 2
    2010- 1
    2012- 1

    So Nadal needs 3 in the next 2 seasons to keep up, but then only 1 in his 30s (assuming Fed doesn't win anymore of course). As great as Nadal looks now, he's never had back-to-back seasons with multiple Slams, so bagging 3 more in the next 2 years as he rounds out his 20s is far from a lock.

    Given how early Nadal peaked in his career, expecting him to win many Slams in his 30s seems like a real stretch, so these next 2 seasons are absolutely huge for him. I'd say if he can win 2-3 more Slams in his 20s he'd have a shot at breaking the record, since then he'd need no more than 2-3 Slams in all of his 30s. But it's so hard to predict how his aging body will hold up.
     
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  13. BrooklynNY

    BrooklynNY Hall of Fame

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    This is how many people I know feel
     
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  14. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    Nadal is full of surprises. For all we know, he actually could still be playing awesome tennis even at age 34. Nobody knows with this guy!!! :shock:
    He's made a history of proving everyone wrong. He could win 20+ Slams for all we know.
     
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  15. TennisBatman

    TennisBatman Semi-Pro

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    Interesting observation.

    Every time Nadal is injured, people tend to exaggerate his declining physical ability, attributing it primarily to age.

    And yet even after those injuries he is able to produce solid, consistent stretches like he did this year. Not necessarily consecutive slam wins...winning the French and the US Open is better than any other player this year already.

    Federer and Agassi have one thing in common--their late career problems were in part related to back pain. Nadal doesn't seem to show back problems yet, but he has been showing knee problems on and off throughout the years.

    But despite his numerous instances of knee problems, he has been able to recover from each spell remarkably well.
     
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  16. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    Where are all the folks that used to say that there's NO WAY this could ever happen? It sure looks a lot different now.
     
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  17. objectivity

    objectivity Banned

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    i just hope Rafa wins the next 3 GS titles. And retire. it will set up the most interesting conundrum of all time. does 16 GS + 4 consecutive > 17 GS ?
     
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  18. Crose

    Crose Professional

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    I don't think it'll be a conundrum. It won't happen but if it does, if Rafa wins the next 3 slams in a row, he'll be the GOAT without question. Because then his weeks at #1 will be higher, he'll have a double career grand slam, 9 FO's, and 7 slams off clay so the clay argument would be gone.
     
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  19. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    A four slam margin? That would only pull him level.. he needs five to pass Federer.

    Djokovic did a poor job of defending Federer's legacy today. Him and Murrya need to up their games. :p
     
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  20. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    That's how I see it too, TennisandMusic. I care more about the quality of competition than the numbers. If you don't win against the very best, it doesn't mean as much in my estimation.

    Nadal is the best I've seen as well. I hadn't realized that only three (I think) of his wins didn't come from Federer and Djoker (10 from all time greats). Dang. That's impressive.
     
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  21. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

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    IKR!! :evil:
     
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  22. New Daddy

    New Daddy Rookie

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    I'm a big Federer fan. I like Federer for his elegance and grace on the court. Even if Nadal surpasses Federer's GS title counts, it will be Roger's videoclips that I'll watch and relish.

    Having said that, I really hope Rafa will surpass Roger in GS title counts and I believe he will. That way, the silly Federer=GOAT argument based on his most # of GS titles will be foreclosed once and for all. I don't believe the # of GS titles should be the absolute metric based on which you determine the GOAT. That frame is so wrong and oblivious to the tennis history. Roger's H2H is a huge blemish to his contention as the GOAT. No, I don't think Roger can be the GOAT if he didn't even dominate his contemporary in Nadal on any surface. So for sanity's sake, I want Rafa to garner more GS titles than Roger and then, only then, we can maybe talk about whether Laver (or whoever else was dominant in tennis history) is the GOAT or Nadal is the GOAT. For sanity's sake.

    Regardless, Roger's elegance during his prime on the court was a thing of beauty. I haven't seen that in any other player. He doesn't have to be the GOAT.
     
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  23. monfed

    monfed Guest

    This is all nice n all when there is an opponent who can actually stop you like Nole was doing in 2011. As far as ******'s "body holding up" well I'm not sure if this joke is funny anymore tbh.
     
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  24. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Someone's getting cocky now. Borg not #1 anymore or is it still "anyone but Federer is #1" ? :lol:
     
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  25. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    I've said for years that Nadal would go down as one of the all time greats and he's now firmly in the top tier of all time greats in my opinion, though some would say he has a way to go, while still others already consider him the "greatest ever". Meanwhile, legions of posters said there's NO WAY that Nadal could come close to what he's doing now. So I'm getting cocky?? LOL Monfed, that's a bit rich. Borg will always be Number One for me, for many reasons, but there's no question anymore that Nadal will be considered in the top tier of all time greats and many will eventually consider him the "greatest ever", whatever that means for them. Most that said Nadal had "no shot" will never "take back" earlier posts from a few years ago, but that's not surprising, because at EVERY TURN, many fans and many posters on this very forum not only counted Nadal completely out, but they bad mouthed him in every conceivable way. Now, when you ask questions about Nadal, I'm reminded of this.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re72di5phM0
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
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  26. monfed

    monfed Guest

    8/13 slams on clay. End of
     
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  27. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    You say that as if it's a bad thing.
     
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  28. monfed

    monfed Guest

    1/4 slams on clay, you say it as if it means nothing.
     
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  29. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    and you can do that with ANY player in the history of the game, bar none.
     
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  30. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Big deal. A major is a major. Nadal has 8 French Opens, which is one the greatest achievements in the history of tennis.
     
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  31. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Indeed. And I also think he'll get caught.
     
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  32. monfed

    monfed Guest

    It is a big deal given that his slam count is skewed towards one surface. Even a 1D fast court player like Pete has a more balanced resume over HC and grass even when grass was by far his best surface. The days of showing sympathy to Nadal being just good on clay and flat out sucking elsewhere are long gone, if he wants to be the GOAT his resume better matchup to the standards.
     
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  33. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Not with Fed. No other all-time great who has been considered for GOAT status has had such a surface skewed resume, it's no wonder why Nadulltards pine for Ralph winning non-clay majors. Look, the days of handing Ralph pity points because of his incapability of matching his clay stats or even 1/4 of them outside clay are over. If he wants to be with the big boys he has to come to play.
     
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  34. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Nadal is 1 Australian Open away from doing a double career Grand Slam.
    Nadal is 1 Wimbledon away from being the first man ever to win at least 3 majors on clay, grass and hardcourt

    Skewed surface resume, eh?
     
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  35. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    Yes even with Federer monfed or any player for that matter. It's very subjective when you try and compare and contrast GREAT players from different eras. Nadal is still just 27, so given how well 30+ players are still doing these days, and this is Nadal we are talking about, who really believes that he won't continue to "balance his resume" so to speak? Wimbledon is strange though, but who knows, he may turn it back around there too.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
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  36. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    At Nadal's age, Fed hadn't even won the 4 slams, he had only 3, and 8 of his 13 titles were on hard court.
     
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  37. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Oh so you don't think it means nothing either that at Nadal's age, 8 of Fed's slam titles were on hard court? What a coincidence, hum?
     
    #37
  38. granddog29

    granddog29 Banned

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    Tremendous post. Nice to see a classy and reasonable Federer fan on here for a change.
     
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  39. granddog29

    granddog29 Banned

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    Yes, Nadal's non slam titles almost match the entire career slams of all time greats like Djokovic and Becker. Yet some desperate will still try and contend he is just a clay courter.

    Nadal is a greater player and more of an all time great on all 3 surfaces that exist today- hard courts, grass, and clay than Federer is on clay.
     
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  40. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Is it a coincidence that 2 slams are on HC and only 1 slam on clay and thus winning more slams on HC is actually normal compared to clay? Or this reality too grim for you to deal with? :lol:
     
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  41. monfed

    monfed Guest

    This double-career grand slam is a made up word to brag about Ralph just like you guys love bragging about Ralph's OG, no wait his "SOG". Anything to glorify Ralph's individual achievements since his overall numbers are seriously lacking for GOAT status(besides his 1D game ofcourse).
     
    #41
  42. BrooklynNY

    BrooklynNY Hall of Fame

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    Double Career Slam would be valued higher than any type of 3rd or 4th place streak would be
     
    #42
  43. kalyan4fedever

    kalyan4fedever Hall of Fame

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    Fed got nothing to worry about now, I think Sampras fans might be more afraid right now than feds lol
     
    #43
  44. neesun

    neesun New User

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    Nadal will win another 2 French Opens easily, no one's on his level on the red dirt. 10 French Opens, that's mind blowing.

    He could easily pick up 2 more slams on grass or hard court.
     
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  45. BigServer1

    BigServer1 Legend

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    I don't get why some are downplaying the potential double at each Major. It will be a monumental achievement if Rafa is able to win another AO. No one has ever won two of each Major on all the different surfaces. Also, as noted by Mustard, if Rafa wins another Wimbledon title, he'll have three Major wins on all three surfaces.

    Rafa has a real shot at compiling one of, if not the best résumé ever.
     
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  46. granddog29

    granddog29 Banned

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    Exactly. Fedturds are the only ones who care about a slam quarterfinal or even semifinal streak. You NEVER hear experts talk about it, see tennis writers mention it. Nobody cares. Nadal winning all the slams twice on the other hand would be talked about alot.
     
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  47. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    The future is always open, we have seen many ups and downs in mens tennis over the last years, especially in the case of Nadal. Let's appreciate what Nadal has achieved yet. His comeback after a serious, career threatening injury is more than extraordinary. There are two things, which i find astounding: his will to learn and improve his game and his ability to react and adjust to conditions and players.
    He serves better, stays nearer the baseline, and doesn't run aroung his bh so much. In this USO he was bulldozing the field, maybe he played a better match in the quarters than in the final. But he does everything to win, and he wins. He had to overcome this big mental hurdle against Djokovic, once trailing 0-7 in a period in the hth. But now he has turned it comfortably around, and dominates him again (not by a wide margin in the single match, but in the overall results) on all surfaces.
    There is a great lack of upcoming young people on the tour (except maybe Janowicz), the old guard of people around 27-28 is reigning, the post 30 generation is still doing well, and they all seem quite predictable. Djokovic should change his game more to aggressive tennis, i wrote that since i saw him last year at RG vs. Seppi. Otherwise he will end as the new Lendl, being consistent like a bee, going through the early rounds with tons of bagels, but ending short in the last rounds and setting new records as bridesmaid of the day. Murray has lost his hunger a bit, he should regroup. So Nadal, barring injury, seems to have good conditions to add to his resume in the next two or three years.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2013
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  48. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    Exactly!

    Could you imagine if Wawrinka beat Novak in the SF and then Nadal takes care of Stan in 3-4 sets in the final? Sure I'd still be happy that Nadal won the USO but nowhere near as satisfying as seeing him turn the tables on one of his main rivals, his biggest challenger and on his opponent's best surface.

    Here is a indisputable FACT:

    Nadal def grass great at WIM in Fed
    Nadal def HC greats at AO and USO in Fed and Novak

    Have those two guys def Nadal at RG? NO!
     
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  49. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

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    Can we all just be happy that we have 4 GREAT tennis Legends entertaining us ?
    No point in this endless discussion of better or greater this and that. Let's just savor their presence while they're still playing, imho
     
    #49
  50. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    That's the measure!

    I would have been happy if Stan had won, for him, but I wanted Nadal to beat the best. And, he did. He is such an amazing talent. He went clean off in the last set. He was incredible.

    I can't get off of this high. This win, this comeback, these improvements. I'm stunned.
     
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