Federer's fraudulent GOAT claim

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by MuseFan, Dec 1, 2009.

  1. MuseFan

    MuseFan Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    706
    Clown wins(defined) - against old broken down old men, slam newcomers, injured playes

    2003 Wimbledon - clown win vs old Scud
    2004 AO - good win against peak Safin
    2004 Wimbledon - good win against peak Roddick
    2004 US Open - good win against peak Hewitt
    2005 Wimbledon - good win against peak Roddick
    2005 US Open - clown win against broken down old man Agassi
    2006 AO - clown win against newcomer Baggy
    2006 Wimbledon - clown win against grass newcomer Nadal
    2006 US Open - good win against peak Roddick
    2007 AO - good win against peak Gonzo
    2007 WImbledon - clown win against injured Nadal
    2007 US Open - clown win against newcomer Djokovic
    2008 US Open - clown win against newcomer Murray
    2009 FO - good win against peak Soderling
    2009 WImbledon - good win against Roddick

    So only 7 legitimate slam wins for Rogelio. More proof of a "clown era". Thought I'd throw this as a bone for our resident trolls to chew on.
     
    #1
  2. GustafsonFanatic

    GustafsonFanatic Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    582
    "2004 AO - good win against peak Safin" ?

    Safin was dead in the final.
     
    #2
  3. Azzurri

    Azzurri Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2006
    Messages:
    7,884
    Location:
    Next door to Elisha Cuthbert.
    dude, only clown is you. this is a poor attempt to discredit Fed. ANY win in a major final is with a tough opponent. what...you think Baggy, Murray, (and any other "clown) did not have to win 6 matches just to ge there??? its not as if its a lottery. this is a huge thread FAIL.
     
    #3
  4. FIFTEEN

    FIFTEEN New User

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2009
    Messages:
    35
    I be confuzed, This be serious topic??????
     
    #4
  5. IvanAndreevich

    IvanAndreevich Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    7,493
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Deadly serious.
     
    #5
  6. MuseFan

    MuseFan Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    706
    I'm pretty sure you could poke holes in the rest of Rogi's wins too. Whereas with Rafa's 6 wins he had to beat "RogerGOAT" all 6 times, woof!
     
    #6
  7. FIFTEEN

    FIFTEEN New User

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2009
    Messages:
    35
    i thought you had to win 7 matches in a row to win a grand slam, not just one against a player other people say is worthy. because if they truly were then they would be playing, not on a plane ride home......just saying
     
    #7
  8. TheMusicLover

    TheMusicLover Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,680
    Location:
    Nexus Polaris
    Trolling is lame... troll bating just as lame.
    Epic FAIL, OP.
     
    #8
  9. dlk

    dlk Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Messages:
    2,748
    Location:
    Indy
    Touch'e:shock::twisted::shock:
     
    #9
  10. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2007
    Messages:
    15,689
    Location:
    VA Beach
    Hor-awful thread. Should be deleted immediately.
     
    #10
  11. dh003i

    dh003i Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    5,050
    Yea, there are definitely some people here who'd agree with that kind of thing (I know you post in jest).

    Why not take away all of Nadal's wins at the FO where he beat Federer in the final or had to beat Federer to get to the final? I mean, after all, this Federer guy is just a fraudulent GOAT candidate, the luckiest guy ever, and a guy for whom Nadal had an inherent matchup-advantage over. So that leaves only Nadal's wins over Federer at Wimbledon and the AO. But we should take those away too, since the only legitimate Wimbledon wins Federer where when he beat Roddick, but he has an "easy" matchup vs. Roddick, so they don't count either. And then his AO wins were all jokes too.

    So we're really just talking about two very over-rated guys for the top 2 today. Heck, the entire field is over-rated. They'd lose to players in the 1800s.
     
    #11
  12. dh003i

    dh003i Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    5,050
    Yea, but RogerGOAT isn't really RogerGOAT, he's just Roger-the-lucky, so Nadal isn't the great Nadal, he's just lucky to play against Roger-the-lucky.
     
    #12
  13. MuseFan

    MuseFan Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    706
    Wonderful circular reasoning that leads... nowhere. Unless of course you define objective criteria for GOAT-hood. No one has and no one will agree.
     
    #13
  14. FIFTEEN

    FIFTEEN New User

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2009
    Messages:
    35
    I think the fans should just have a vote and pick who plays the final and when they are done playing the the winner is about to be crowned there should be another vote to see who the actual winner should be, because the fans are never wrong, we know who should win, how they should win and why they do and don't win. We are perfect and we are the true GOATs
     
    #14
  15. President of Serve/Volley

    President of Serve/Volley Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2009
    Messages:
    589
    While I would debate that the early to mid 1990s were a tad stronger than today's time, but to say that Roger played crappy players in order to win is just silly... very very silly.

    It could be that Roger Federer is just head and shoulders better than anyone.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
    #15
  16. Cantankersore

    Cantankersore Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    Messages:
    513
    MuseFan's claim to be an alright poster is fraudulent.
     
    #16
  17. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2007
    Messages:
    7,579
    Location:
    Houston, Texas
    I think "fraudulent" is overstating things. Yet, I see what Musefan is touching on with this thread.

    I also argue that overall Federer has not won much against very tough players to capture his Grand Slam titles. That weighs against him in my book, but I think he, along with Laver, Borg, and Sampras have arguments that can be made for being the Greatest Tennis Player Ever.

    Each of those 4 candidates for that hypothetical title has pluses and minuses when you analyze it objectively and subjectively. You cannot be purely objective about it, as you are forced to compare players from different eras.

    Just because Federer is the best during THIS time, does not automatically give him the undisputed claim as the greatest player ever precisely because, if you look at some of the players he beat in those GS finals, they were just not the caliber of say John McEnroe and Jimmy Connors (Borg's arch rivals that he faced often) and Sampras' primary rivals (younger Agassi, S. Edberg, and B. Becker in particular).

    If Nadal somehow surpasses Federer during his career by winning 10 more GS titles by around 28-29, will people unquestionably conclude that he was the UNDISPUTED greatest player ever and WAY better than Federer? The answer is NO WAY. There would be a debate and one would have to make comparisons across tennis eras. That requires objective and subjective analysis.

    Look above at 6 of Federer's 15 Grand Slam final wins and assess the real strength of his top competition. Six GS Final Wins occurred against:

    -Roddick (who would/did fold easier than a lawn chair SO OFTEN against him)
    -Baghdatis (when he was just coming onto the scene at that AO)
    -Murray and Djokovic for 2 other final wins when they were very young and basically not mentally ready/tough AT ALL.

    Meanwhile, his toughest competition has been from R. Nadal starting in earnest in 2007. Nadal has beaten him when Nadal really reached peak form at Wimbledon and the Australian Open (both being on fast surfaces, and not on his best surface tennis wise).

    L. Hewitt, meanwhile, has never been the same ever since a major hip injury, and Safin has been so hot/cold. When he's off, he's REALLY OFF.

    Federer did legitimately overcome Agassi, but Agassi was well off his peak form by the time he was well into his 30's.

    Both P. Sampras and B. Borg faced tougher competition than Federer during the semifinal and final stages of Grand Slams.

    Yet, Federer has amassed a larger GS count by now, which does weigh in his favor in the debate as to who is the greatest player ever.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
    #17
  18. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    17,090
    Location:
    Toronto
    Federer is talented and has 15 grand slams even if the beats them against so called clowns. 50 years later no one would care if he did beat clowns, he has x ammount of slams.
     
    #18
  19. nfor304

    nfor304 Banned

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,456
    Philippousis was 26 in 2003... How is that old?
     
    #19
  20. MuseFan

    MuseFan Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    706
    50 years from now we'll all be dead shiznit.
     
    #20
  21. Tennis_Monk

    Tennis_Monk Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2005
    Messages:
    3,477
    This is a brilliant Thread-just what we needed.

    Apparently "MuseFan" is one of the few guys who can actually determine what grandslams count and what dont.

    May be ATP doesnt need players to play matches. Just ask one of these guys.
     
    #21
  22. svijk

    svijk Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2006
    Messages:
    656
    Very subjective analysis OP...not a very bright thread.
    Also all the name-calling shows that OP is defensive and juvenile
     
    #22
  23. MuseFan

    MuseFan Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    706
    Hint, hint this is a joke thread. I'm mocking the haters.
     
    #23
  24. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Messages:
    5,544
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Wasn't he pointing out... your circular reasoning?

    That being said, hilarious thread.
     
    #24
  25. MuseFan

    MuseFan Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    706
    I'm just trying to keep the off-season light around here.
     
    #25
  26. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,611
    Federer definitely faced a rather poor assortment of pretenders until Nadal arrived. Hard to believe I actually agree with Borg Fan Number One about something. Not much one can do about it though...while Federer's abject failure in overcoming Nadal does not say much for him...but in regards to facing the other sub-championship caliber competition, he isn't too blame, he can only face who is put in front of him. It isn't his fault if no true champions were around for much of his reign!
     
    #26
  27. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,611
    Quite true. History is forgiving this way...and in that sense, perhaps he deserves it, as he has no control over the lack of true challengers.
     
    #27
  28. Rhino

    Rhino Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2005
    Messages:
    7,475
    Location:
    South of London, west of Moscow
    That is crazy logic. If you look at things like that then half of everybody's grand slam titles are 'clown wins'.
     
    #28
  29. JoshDragon

    JoshDragon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,235
    How much crack did you smoke before writing this?!

    1. Phillopposis wasn't old when he played Roger in 2003.
    2. No disagreement.
    3. No disagreement.
    4. No disagreement.
    5. No disagreement.
    6. This is really the only bad win that Federer had. Andre, was old and past his prime when they played back in 2005.

    7. Bhagdatis played a great tournament in 2006 he's not the same player today as he was back then.
    8.Did you even watch the match?
    9.No disagreement.
    10.No disagreement.
    11. How is it Roger's fault that Nadal injured himself half way through the match?
    12. No, because Djokovic had already beaten Roger in the previous month at the US Open series, not to mention he won the AO just a few months later.
    13. Murray played a great tournament up to the finals, that doesn't make it a clown win.
    14.No disagreement.
    15.No disagreement.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
    #29
  30. MuseFan

    MuseFan Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    706
    Nope. All of Rafa's wins are solid-gold. :):)
     
    #30
  31. MuseFan

    MuseFan Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    706
    At least 2 kilos worth dude... :twisted::twisted:
     
    #31
  32. JoshDragon

    JoshDragon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,235
    Ok, just as long as admit to being high, I'll forgive you for coming up with a ridiculous thread.;)
     
    #32
  33. Rhino

    Rhino Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2005
    Messages:
    7,475
    Location:
    South of London, west of Moscow
    Federer would've given all his prize money away to play Puerta for the Roland Garros title in '05!
     
    #33
  34. MuseFan

    MuseFan Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    706
    But Rafa beat Federina in the semis, woof!!!
     
    #34
  35. Rhino

    Rhino Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2005
    Messages:
    7,475
    Location:
    South of London, west of Moscow
    All the more reason for him to want to play Puerta in the final!

    That's the stupid thing about this thread. The OP totally dismisses all the wins that Federer had to complete in all the other rounds of his 15 slam titles.
     
    #35
  36. MuseFan

    MuseFan Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    706
    13-7, and 6-2 baby. Feddy's dead baby, Feddy's dead.
     
    #36
  37. Agassifan

    Agassifan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2009
    Messages:
    2,507
    I DID NOT KNOW THAT ROGER GOT AN AUTOMATIC BYE TO THE FINAL IN ALL OF THE FIFTEEN GRANDSLAMS HE WON. OH! SNAP
     
    #37
  38. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,950
    Location:
    New York
    You should try bigger letters, those are not flashy enough :-?
     
    #38
  39. edmondsm

    edmondsm Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Messages:
    6,902
    Location:
    In an in between place.
    Hater thread. You can put asterisks next to anything you want. Especially Sampras's and Laver's GOAT claims. Total, utter, fail.

    Weird thing is, up until this I thought MuseFan was a Federer fan. This has troll written all over it.
     
    #39
  40. the little dasher

    the little dasher New User

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2009
    Messages:
    62
    Wait a second. How can a win in a slam final be called a clown win? Its stands to reason a bloke has to be playing well to qualify for a final right? So Agassi, for example must have been in great form to get the 2005 US final. Otherwise you're telling people that everyone in the field was a clown or worse except for Fed.

    Plainly no tennis field is so weak that it could be that bad. Agassi overcame a classy field to get to the final so Fed's win over him can't be discounted. In fact I can see that field included Nadal, Hewitt, Roddick, Davydenko, Nalbandian, Henman, Gasquet, Stepanek, Ferrer, Robredo, Ferrero, Gonzales, Lopes, Moya, Haas, Berdych, Blake. Even Murray, Baghdatis, Vesdasco and Johansson were there. Not bad for a supposed broken down old man to get past.

    You could say as much abt other players anyway. Most agree that the 80s was a strong era in tennis. Yet Chris Lewis got into a final at Wimbledon in 1983. Getting past a field including Connors, Wilander, Vilas, Gerulaitis, Lendl, Edberg, Sandy Mayer, Tanner, Cash and Brad Gilbert before losing to J Mac.

    Just bcos Lewis surprisingly got to the final doesn't mean Mac's win was a clown win when the field was so good. Same goes for Fed's win in 2005.
     
    #40
  41. MuseFan

    MuseFan Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    706
    DOnt' you realize now, all slam champs are clowns... :)
     
    #41
  42. nfor304

    nfor304 Banned

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,456
    Almost all of Federers wins would have been against Rafa if Rafa had not failed to make the finals
     
    #42
  43. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    30,950
    Location:
    New York
    I see it as the exact opposite. Fed would have won fewer slams on hard if the guy across the net had been Rafa every time. Wonder if Fed would have cried at the USO as well :-?
     
    #43
  44. volleynets

    volleynets Professional

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,226
    Location:
    CA
    haha old fart. Not all of us.
     
    #44
  45. MuseFan

    MuseFan Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    706
    Haha - let's see Rafa make a US Open final. This year was his worst loss ever to Potro.
     
    #45
  46. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,254
    Oh yeah, so easy for Federer to have won seven straight best of 5 set matches for no less than 15 times. What luck! So lucky for Federer to have made the last 18 of 19 Slam finals and 22 straight semifinals. What incredible luck! Luck is the only explanation!

    Heck, it would be easier to win the $100 million Lotto every single week for 10 straight years. :roll:
     
    #46
  47. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,254
    Not nearly as much as Nadal cried after getting his butt spanked at the WTF. He couldn't even win a single set in 3 matches. How pitiful. How utterly embarrassing. How can he possibly call himself the 2nd best tennis player in the world with a straight face? :oops:
     
    #47
  48. nfor304

    nfor304 Banned

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,456
    My point is that Rafa was in almost all of those draws. Its not his fault he didnt end up facing him the final.
     
    #48
  49. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    9,745
    Well,Nadal didn't cry,that's your version but then again you believe that Nadal skipped wimbledon just for ***** and giggles. And Nadal doesn't call himself the 2nd best tennis player,the atp does:
    http://www.atpworldtour.com/Rankings/Singles.aspx

    Despite underperforming at 1 slam,missing another slam,staying 2 and a half months out of the game due to two injuries(tendinitis problem + muscle tear in the abdomen),he still ends the year as the nr.2 and even had a off-shot at the nr.1 in WTF. How pitiful the ATP is if they can't surpass a guy who basically has gone missing at 2 slams and has performed poorly in the last 6 months.

    Despite being badly beaten time and time again on HC in the last few years,Rafa,if I am not mistaken,has the most HC points this year,or he is at least in the top 3. Again,how embarrasing for the HC giants like Fed(no HC slams this year though he did make 2 finals),Djoker(good HC masters showing but not even a HC GS final for him),Murray(no comment necessary).

    Please stop these Fedal wars,they are repetitive and utterly boring. And this last part is adressed to the Nadal fans as well.
     
    #49
  50. TheFifthSet

    TheFifthSet Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,298
    #50

Share This Page