Federer's possible return to world No.1 Wozniacki style?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by GasquetGOAT, Mar 18, 2012.

  1. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    3,372
    Will he be criticized for not having won a slam en route to regaining the top spot?

    Will he be labelled as "undeserving" of the top ranking just as Caroline did?
     
    #1
  2. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,112
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    He wouldn't care. 2 more weeks at number 1 would see Federer become the record holder for number of weeks at number 1. At the moment, Federer is 1 week short of Sampras' record.
     
    #2
  3. tata

    tata Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,065
    Dude the guy has 16 slams. Woz gets slammed because she is number 1 and does not have any slams at all.
     
    #3
  4. DarthFed

    DarthFed Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    4,468
    Location:
    Queens, NY
    /thread
    16majors
     
    #4
  5. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    3,372
    That's certainly true, but if Fed does get back to No.1 without winning a slam I'm sure the Nadal fans" won't be so easy on him. I wouldn't be surprised if Fed were to been slammed for winning mickey mouse tournaments and undeserving...
     
    #5
  6. ChanceEncounter

    ChanceEncounter Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,269
    Not real Nadal fans. Real Nadal fans give Federer all the credit in the world. They know that Nadal's legacy is largely dependent on Federer being no worse than 2nd in the GOAT standings.

    T-shirt Nadal fans already give Federer crap for everything, so that wouldn't change.
     
    #6
  7. RCizzle65

    RCizzle65 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,928
    I don't see how he can get back to number one without winning a slam, unless he totally sweeps up the masters events or something.
     
    #7
  8. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    3,372
    Of course he wouldn't care, but the internetS care! What would the Nadal fans say? What about Sampras fans? (or are they the same bunch?)
     
    #8
  9. MG1

    MG1 Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    984
    Who really cares ..nadal fans are not the tennis authority!!
     
    #9
  10. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    13,120
    They already complain that Fed can get Nadal's no. 2 ranking while Nadal has way better slam results in the last 4.
    What they forget is that Nadal became no. 1 for a second time in 2010 with these slam results:

    Federer: W,W,F,Q
    Nadal: W,S,Q, dnp
     
    #10
  11. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    3,372
    It certainly looks that way at the moment. He hasn't lost a best of 3 set match since like last August(?), but I don't see him beating Nadal or Djokovic in a slam. His best chance is to reach as many slam semis or finals as possible to rack up the ranking points.
     
    #11
  12. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    13,120
    He can beat one of them on any day, but two back to back will be tough. I still see him close to being a 50-50 against Djokovic everytime except for on AO soil.
     
    #12
  13. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,803
    Location:
    Inside the service box - the business end
    It will be a legitimate feat, since he has to do better than two guys, that are in their primes and have dominated the tour in the last 2 years, while he is in his thirties.

    On the other hand, Federer haters will grasp at anything, that will give them consolation, should such a thing happen.
     
    #13
  14. nadalwon2012

    nadalwon2012 Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,334
    I wouldn't worry. It'll never happen. Federer would have to beat Nadal at the slams to get the number one ranking. Federer can't dominate the clay season. Djokovic dominated it last year and Nadal usually does. No room for Federer to pick up points there. And then will come the slams where Federer will actually have to play best-of-5. Nadal can gain big at 3 of the 4 slams, because last year he only won Roland Garros. Federer can't gain big, because he isn't a best-of-5 set player in this new physical era - hence he's only made one slam final in the last 2 years (and he lost it 6-1 in the 4th set).
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2012
    #14
  15. TopFH

    TopFH Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    3,448
    ^Man, are you mentally deficient?
     
    #15
  16. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    12,374
    ORLY???

    Any comparison between Federer and the pushing Dane is a bad attempt at humor. There will never be criticism of Federer becoming world #1 because his name is synonymous to success. Not something you can say about that girl (yet).
     
    #16
  17. nadalwon2012

    nadalwon2012 Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,334
    You think Federer will dominate the clay season? Over Nadal and Djokovic? :lol:
     
    #17
  18. merlinpinpin

    merlinpinpin Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,553
    If he gets #1 at 31 in the "strongest era ever", to quote the Nadal fans? That would be GOAT-style rather than Woz-style... ;)
     
    #18
  19. nadalwon2012

    nadalwon2012 Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,334
    Nobody would care. All people will see is that Federer will retire without having won a slam since the 2010 AO. He will probably play another 4 years and end up retiring with no slams in his last 6 years lol.
     
    #19
  20. RCizzle65

    RCizzle65 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,928
    I still think Federer has a slight advantage over Djokovic, I mean come on, he was the only person to beat him at a slam last year, and at the US Open, he was up two sets and was one point away from beating him in the 5th set. Clearly he knows what to do to beat him and execute. But against Nadal, we all know that story...
     
    #20
  21. Rhino

    Rhino Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2005
    Messages:
    7,474
    Location:
    South of London, west of Moscow
    Surely nobody can ever label Federer of "undeserving" anything in tennis.

    If that's how he does it, then so be it. I'll take it.
     
    #21
  22. Colin

    Colin Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,048
    With all that Djokovic has taken from Nadal, I wonder whether this title drought and performance decline is a Machiavellian scheme by Rafa to steal a record that Nole holds very dear to his heart. ...

    Most consecutive weeks as world number 3: 91 (2007–2009)

    The sooner Fed moves up, the sooner Rafa can start preparing for his cunning attack, making sure to hold off Andy Murray, for he's not quite ready to contend for the record of consecutive weeks at No. 4, but no doubt he has that one in mind next.
     
    #22
  23. nadalwon2012

    nadalwon2012 Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,334
    Federer will need to win something during the clay season. Not likely, with Djokovic/Nadal so dominant in those events. And at Wimbledon, Federer looks extremely vulnerable vs the big hitters, hence QF exits 2 years in a row. And the biggest problem for Federer is that he has to defend a truckload of points after the US Open. Federer could drop out of the top 3 because of that. Meanwhile Nadal can gain huge after the US Open.
     
    #23
  24. Colin

    Colin Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,048
    Fed hasn't lost a three-set match since last summer, and he's won six of his past eight tournaments (would have been favored in Doha, too, if he didn't have to withdraw). He's lost only two matches since that great U.S. Open semi he was on the verge of taking. And one was in Davis Cup, arguably never Fed's brightest passion.

    Meanwhile, Nadal hasn't won any tournaments since the last clay season and is now forced to find solace in his defeat of great players such as Marcel Granollers and blame the "crazy wind" despite his reputation as an outdoor beast impervious to the caprices of nature. He also hasn't proven in the past year that he can beat his main nemesis. Fed has done so in two of their past three encounters.

    Which of these situations would cause one more concern?
     
    #24
  25. nadalwon2012

    nadalwon2012 Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,334
    But Nadal has made the 2011 US Open final and 2012 Australian Open final. That is more impressive than winning a few non-slams. His form has been excellent away from clay. Therefore on clay he has a huge opportunity to gain points at Rome (where he made the final 2011) and Madrid (where he made the final 2011).
     
    #25
  26. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,803
    Location:
    Inside the service box - the business end
    You are using logic here. That doesn't work with the VB. For a taste of their behaviour, when they are proven wrong, refer to the this thread:

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=417347

    They are good for only one thing. Excelling as Court Jesters.
     
    #26
  27. Colin

    Colin Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,048
    Yes, Rafa has made a name for himself in being No. 1 among the losers in the past year. But for someone who has always seemed to enjoy the aspect of winning more than the game itself, you have to wonder how long the thrill of tennis will continue. I'm sure having six titles instead of a handful of runner-up trophies could have made a difference in his mindset.

    But what if that mentality of always being second-best has shaken him to his very clay core and he ends up with no clay titles? (Maybe not even his beloved Monte Carlo!)

    If he can't beat Fed in a tennis contest and he can't beat Djokovic in an endurance contest, then what does he have?
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2012
    #27
  28. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2007
    Messages:
    4,789
    Federer is truly dominating this year, it's possible he will have a better year than Djokovic did.

    Nadal is not playing well at all and if Federer can somehow get to a French open final against Djokovic I'd back him to win. Federer could finish the year with 3 slams and an Olympic Gold medal, and a better win loss record than Djokovic's last year.
     
    #28
  29. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    13,120
    Well, this is very very unlikely. Not to say delusional. I'd sign up for one Slam and the no. 1 ranking right now.
     
    #29
  30. sunny_cali

    sunny_cali Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    689

    Well - he's Fed anything *could* happen. But, it never ceases to amaze me how much people live in the moment. Yes, Fed has won everything in sight the past few months, except where it mattered most -- but these have largely been on surfaces that suited him. In IW he was a tad lucky he didn't run into some of the grinders, Murray, Simon et. al. Let's see for starters if he can continue the winning streak in Miami. If he does win there (i expect him to go out in the SF), then we maybe onto something.

    I am also not sure if the winning streak is good for Fed, it's interesting that he has chucked out his usual strategy of being lackdaiscal for the Masters -- at his age it should be about peaking for the Slams. There is a good chance he might run out of gas by the time we get to the FO/Wimbledon stretch.

    Let's enjoy the great run while it lasts and not worry his records. He has too many of those as it is!
     
    #30
  31. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,803
    Location:
    Inside the service box - the business end
    Well, that made my day. So, Nadal is not a grinder?
     
    #31
  32. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2007
    Messages:
    4,789
    Nadal has been moving very badly since that USO final last year. And by "badly" I mean he's moving like a normal player. I really wasn't impressed with his level of defensive play yesterday at all.
     
    #32
  33. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,803
    Location:
    Inside the service box - the business end
    So, is he a grinder or not?
     
    #33
  34. nadalwon2012

    nadalwon2012 Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,334
    Nadal's movement, like it or not, was hurt by his foot injury at Wimbledon (suffered vs Del Potro). Nadal said before the US Open that he was not ready physically, because he had not been able to train after Wimbledon. We saw the result of this when he had nothing left in the US Open final, and really only got by on adrenaline which he ran out of in the 4th set breadstick.

    Nadal at the Australian Open, is the fittest he's looked at an Australian Open for 3 years.
     
    #34
  35. rommil

    rommil Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Messages:
    7,735
    Location:
    CT
    Fed now is a honey badger, he doesn't give a **** :)
     
    #35
  36. Jack Romeo

    Jack Romeo Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2004
    Messages:
    992
    the general sentiment is that winning a grand slam has to come first before getting to number one. roger has 16 so if he does get to the top without a slam it won't be taken against him, just as davenport and hingis weren't criticized as badly as wozniacki, safina and jankovic.
     
    #36
  37. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2007
    Messages:
    4,789
    Disagree, thought he moved amazingly well in the USO, and was 2 steps slow in the AO, but the slow surface helped him out.

    Uncle Toni isn't letting Nadal complain about his injuries anymore. It's been very noticeable.
     
    #37
  38. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2007
    Messages:
    4,789
    Not right now. When Rusedski hurt his shoulder so he couldn't serve over 130mph anymore was he still a big server? No.
     
    #38
  39. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,803
    Location:
    Inside the service box - the business end
    Did you watch the AO final?
     
    #39
  40. Big_Dangerous

    Big_Dangerous Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    6,010
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    I don't think he can get back to #1 in the men's game without winning a slam to be honest with you.

    Fed's not going to play all these **** ass 250's...

    Plus we're heading into the clay season as well.

    I mean look at what Djokovic had to do to get the #1 ranking last year

    Win AO, and Dubai
    Win both Indian Wells and Miami
    Win Madrid and Rome
    Semi-Finals at RG
    Win Wimbly

    Didn't officially take over the #1 ranking until after Wimbly ended...

    So he had to win 4 Masters 1000 series, a 500, and two Grand Slams, along with a Semi-Final appearance at the French Open...

    I won't say Fed can't pull something like that off, but to play at such a high level consistently, is extremely hard to do.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2012
    #40
  41. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2007
    Messages:
    4,789
    Did you? The court was slow and Djokovic was hitting the ball slowly up the middle.
     
    #41
  42. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,803
    Location:
    Inside the service box - the business end

    Yes, I did. If that is not exquisite grinding I don't know what is. Look at the number of winners from Nadal.
     
    #42
  43. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    3,520
    Location:
    Bangalore, India
    Very well said.
     
    #43
  44. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    3,372
    This year Fed has an advantage compared to Djokovic's last season is that he has already accumulated 3000 pts post US Open (Basel + Paris + WTF) which means Fed does not need to match what Djokovic did pre-US Open last year. He just needs to stay ahead in points of Djokovic and Nadal can win THIS season. Forget about last season, nobody in their right mind is expecting Djokovic to repeat his 2011.

    Its true this means Fed has more points to defend at the end of season but Fed's (or majority of his fans) priority at this stage is to regain the No.1 spot for two more weeks thus breaking the record, not finishing the season as No.1 (which of course would be a pleasant bonus). The former is likely achievable.
     
    #44
  45. sunny_cali

    sunny_cali Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    689
    yes he is - he had a bad day - Fed did not. Some think that this is the beginning of some new trend, I do not. I expect that Nadal will have more than his fair share of success against Fed this year.

    My point was that in IW, Fed met the kind of players that he has traditionally owned. Big servers, power hitters with relatively poor movement. That is the kind of player he always dominated. He was relatively luckier not to meet the kind of player he struggles with on these slower surfaces.
     
    #45
  46. merlinpinpin

    merlinpinpin Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,553
    Ahem. So I'm afraid we get to ask the question again--doesn't he usually struggle against Nadal on these slower surfaces?
     
    #46
  47. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,803
    Location:
    Inside the service box - the business end
    You mean, like .... Nadal?
     
    #47
  48. sunny_cali

    sunny_cali Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    689
    Yes. Read the post again, and read the original post again. Don't get too excited with one win. Wait and watch. That might be just too much to ask of people who get carried away by one performance.
     
    #48
  49. sunny_cali

    sunny_cali Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    689
    yes. which is why is lost to nadal at AO. He won yesterday. Not a trend. For the trend go back and look at H2H.
     
    #49
  50. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,803
    Location:
    Inside the service box - the business end
    Except, you was specifically talking about IW:

    Boy, I love tards. It is like having Christmas every day.

    I wonder what would have the VB said, should Nadal have gotten the draw Federer had.
     
    #50

Share This Page