Federer's racquet and pro racquets in general. *must read*

Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by Prostaffer, Sep 13, 2004.

  1. Prostaffer

    Prostaffer Semi-Pro

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    I'm not a new guy trying to make a name to impress people on the internet. i'm just an equipment fiend like the rest of you who has been priveleged enough to see part of the equipment world few get too. I finally got my name and decided to post because i hate to see what is a very nice forum constantly flooded by people who want to inflate their ego by saying they know the "truth".

    Yes players play with painted racquets, however as far as i know when it comes to a Wilson racquet it's not just a paint job. What you think might be a totally different racquet isn't necessarily so and in this respect you should be encouraged. A recent article in the official magazine for stringing professionals featured Wilson's tech center with which i am semi-familiar. That much i can say. What was said in the article is exactly what i can verify and also tell you now.

    The racquets in your stores and the ones in the pro's hands only differ my grams and millimeters. the grams when concerning weight and millimeters only in the meaning that the racquet, at least for a wilson pro, can be molded a certain way to change the way the racquet plays but not entirely.

    Too make a racquet originaly can be an overnight process the only difference is the mold the racquet is set into. So when a pro feels a racquet is too "airy" or "slow" tech center engineers are hired to translate what this means in terms of the racquets performance. I have had models from the stores and been given player molded racquets based on the same frames. Many times i have had the racquets in my bag for matches, they have the same paint jobs, and i'll be honest that they play different. Not that much differently though. It's not like Taylor Dent's RoK plays that much differently from the one hanging at your pro shop. Slightly but not much. This is due to chagnes that Wilson allows not only in the head shape/size but also in the throat and such.

    The reason i say i can believe Wilson is that's the only source i have in the industry and also the goal of Wilson's tech center is do for pro's what the Bosworth's and Premier 1's can't. Federer does use premier 1 and many wilson pro's due but a growing number aren't. I don't work for wilson but i have done playtests for them which is why i can vouch for what i'm saying as truth. While i know premier one strings and works on Federer's frame, i know the people that put it in the machine and take it out.

    In short, please don't clutter up the message board with Federer is fooling you and the rest of the tour is. They're not, cuz everyone knows. And it's not as bad as you think it is.
     
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  2. I found this post of yours as informative as the lesser 90 percent of the collective posts here. The only thing that can be drawn from your post is that Dent plays tennis with a tennis racket. When it comes to pros' modifications, it's specific specs that are interesting to read about. Anyway, I haven't hit with a Rok, but I'd be surprised if Dent's current frame plays anything like it. By just looking through the TV, the head shape and string pattern are way off. That leads me to believe that it's also noticeably stiffer. And that's not taking into account the different weight, balance, swingweight, layup--materials, how much and where. Instead of the salesman-type speal, please stick to facts and neat insights. Everyone that cares knows that Federer is a client of Priority 1 (it's still Priority 1, not Premier 1, right?). But many of us is dying to know the specifics behind specific pros' frames, such as Dent's "Rok." Of course most top pros are artistic enough to want to be continuously tweaking their magic sticks. But mentioning specific specs that were alive at one time is a crucial step in the right direction of this board.
     
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  3. Prostaffer

    Prostaffer Semi-Pro

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    sigh

    but what i was trying to convey in that message is that the sticks aren't all the different. i see so many posts about people looking at sticks and even saw one guy actually talking about the look of the grip where it meets the frame and looking at all this nonsense.

    the rok i played with from dent's lot was a notch stiffer. the only difference was the geometry of the head which was slightly larger. the size was added to the lower corners of the head by changing the angles of the throat of the racquet. all this really did in my opinion was change the shape of the "sweetspot" of the racquet.

    this would make sense as supposedly, many pro's hit off-center, so perhaps dent likes to strike the ball towards the lower half of the frame? as far as materials it's not like it's that easy to change the composition of many of the strips that are used to create a racquet. i don't want to give you a long description of how a racquet is made but to buy materials and think that they buy them or create them in special mixes to change the compositions from what you buy in the stores is silly.

    the only difference in materials is if say someone has an intelligence paintjob and when you cut throught the racquet there's no chips to be found whatesoever :wink:

    i know so many people are trying to find a reason why some people are pro's and some aren't. the magic reasoning that their special racquets are superior to ours is bs. i mean nothing is distorted throught magic of television right? i'm sure the TiVo and the high-def TV really allow for you to see the appearance of a racquet correctly.

    i wasn't trying to be informative rather discouraging to the people who fill the forums trying to act as if they've uncovered some secret to the paintjob! ecspecially a perceived secret that is blown way out of proportion, at least when it comes to wilson frames.
     
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  4. HeavyBall

    HeavyBall Rookie

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    Prostaffer,

    Don't take this the wrong way, but until you have pictures, specs, or at least some fairly specific info, the only thing you're really doing is contributing to the hype.

    Good to have you on the board, though. :D
     
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  5. intense2b

    intense2b Banned

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    prostaffer you are wrong

    Prostaffer you are very wrong. Federer can beat me and probably anyone on the planet using a spoon (what he did to hewitt was just scary)...however your contention is still wrong. No one here is saying that the augmentation of the racquets is what makes pro's like federer so good...but their racquets are quite different from whats you think you see. Please read Bill Scanlon's "Bad news for Mcenroe" featured in last months tennis magazine. As a touring pro he says everyone was guilty of using paint jobs.For example, he says that Ivan Lendl supposedly used an adidas racquet...but it was really a Kneissel. In fact Bill scanlon himself used paintobs because Fila could not produce a racquet that he liked. Futhermore. The yellow racquet Connors used in his comeback at 39 years old I believe was really an Estusa...but dont quote me on that, I am a little fuzzy on those facts....actually maybe someone can help me out with that one. I even saw a Porsche racquet...guess what...its really a Volkl. As far as augmenting racquets...well just speak to Mr, Warren Boswroth who is world famous and his collection has been featured on tennis warehouse. He completely overhauled Ginepri's racquet...from the grip to the weight. I personally know Tim Mayotte who's Yonex has been changed so drastically that I would not even call it a Yonex anymore. Jay's Custom racquets in NYC augments racquets drastically as well and even rounded the edges of the handle for I believe Ivanesivic because he used to be a Hockey Player and liked the feeling of a hockey stick....give a call to Roman over at Jay's and he will blow your mind with stories of how much he has augmented the Pro's racquets or call mr. Bosworth himself and he will simply knock you out.
     
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  6. Fee

    Fee Legend

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    Roman doesn't work for Jay anymore...

    So when two ATP players look me in the eye and tell me that they are NOT playing with nCodes and their racquets have been painted, I shouldn't believe them?
     
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  7. intense2b

    intense2b Banned

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    fee

    fee,

    1. Roman doesn't work at Jay's anymore?? Where did he go? I knew that he was trying to sell products on his own and Jay allowed him to work out of the store.

    2. Should you believe the Pro's when they look you in the eye and tell you that they are NOT using paint jobs etc etc? OF COURSE NOT!!! They hide it from everyone they can!! First of all, how they augment their racquets is top secret stuff...mainly so the competition does not get an edge. To get that info out of them is virtually impossible....they don't even like to tell you what string tension they use. As for paint jobs...well they like the $$$$ that the sponsors are paying them....if it got out that they were using paintjobs then they could lose big $$$$$.

    3. You simply ignored all of the facts I raised. Do yourself a favor and read Scanlon's book. He was on the tour and he has "let the cat out of the bag". I especially enjoyed the part of his book where Borg lent Scanlon his sneakers .....so Scanlon simply used a black magic marker to paint them over and pasted on his endorsements emblem!!! He further says that paint jobs have always been around.....in the old days of the wooden racquets the specs were all the same....so all racquets whether they were wilson or Donnay or whatever were all the exact same racquet. Therefore the companies simply gave them all a paint job and had different people sign it...like the "Jack Kramer Autograph." But everyone was really playing with the same exact racquet. The public did not know...but it was common knowledge among all the pros.Tennis companies have been pulling the wool over our eyes since the beginning my dear friend. Scanlon gives many more examples....In short join the club....you have been hoodwinked like all the rest of us. :shock:
     
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  8. gregraven

    gregraven Semi-Pro

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    Actually, Taylor's racquet is MUCH more flexible than the retail ROK. And, if you look around the TW message area, you'll find that I have posted most of the specs for Taylor's "ROK".
     
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  9. Cruzer

    Cruzer Professional

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    The gearheads that follow these boards probably represent 80% of the people that give a rat's *** about what racquet Federer or any other pro actually uses. I have mentioned to fellow tennis players the fact the pros use racquets painted to look like the latest and greatest model and the response, if there is any at all, is "Oh really?". End of discussion. This topic will always be a hot one for discussion because the people that follow these boards are genuinely interested in this stuff. It is much the same as wondering what grip size is on the driver Tiger Woods uses or how much loft Phil Mickelson has on his gap wedge. The golf junkie is never going to able to tell much, if anything about a pro golfer's equipment because unless you are his caddy you don't get close enough to tell if Tiger is actually swinging the latest Nike five iron or some variation that is nothing like the products available to the golfing masses. In all probability it is the latter.
    When watching a pro tennis player you get to actually see what racquet the manufacturer wants you to think he is using and then the discussion starts about what the racquet really. I find most of these discussions reasonably interesting. This subject is probably the whole raison d'etre for the Pros' Racquets and Gear thread.
     
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  10. Fee

    Fee Legend

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    (Intense2b,
    You might want to edit your post a little bit. Your first two points seem to be directed at my post, and I think you misread what I wrote. One of the threads about Jay Schweid mentioned that Roman was not working with him any more. And yes, I have had three pros, two of whom use Wilson racquets, tell me what is really underneath their paintjobs.)

    I understand why racquet companies do what they do - it became very clear to me when I walked by the Wilson booth at the LA tournament and heard a customer ask if this nCode was the one Federer used to which the salesman of course said yes. I don't like it, not because I believe my game will improve if I use the same Prince as Capriati or Sugiyama, but more for the same reason I don't like Estee Lauder telling people that this cream will get rid of cellulite (it won't, by the way). Wilson could legitimately claim that their racquets are used by more pros and more players, so 'come see which one is right for you' without lying about who is using what. The same is true for all racquet makers - they should focus on brand loyalty to get and keep customers.

    As for modifications, lead tape and that type of info, I find it interesting to see how different pros do different things to their racquets to fit their games and their own physical characteristics (such as Andy's freakishly large right forearm). So, let's all agree that just about everybody is using a paintjob and let's keep talking about the many ways you can tweak a racquet once you get it off the shelf. That has been very informative.
     
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  11. intense2b

    intense2b Banned

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    fee,

    I have edited my response, but much more importantantly....WHAT DO YOU MEAN ESTEE LAUDER CANT GET RID OF CELLULITE!!!!....LOL,
     
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  12. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Re: fee

    I disagree. I used to use wood racquets and I can assure you that a Dunlop Maxply was very different from a Wilson Jack Kramer Autograph which was different from a Donnay Allwood. No, there weren't as many different models of tennis racquets as there are today, and there wasn't as much variety - no midsize, midplus, oversize nor super oversize models nor different shapes and lengths. They were all pretty much the same head size and shape, beam width, and length, but they did vary in weight, balance and flexibility.

    I used the Dunlop Maxply which had a very flexible hoop. No other wood racquet on the market back then felt like the Maxply. That's probably why it was an extremely popular racquet and used by many pros, including Rod Laver. Serve and volleyers who wanted a stiffer frame generally went with the Wilson Jack Kramer Autograph or Pro Staff, or the Stan Smith Autograph. Many baseliners went with the Donnay Allwood, Borg Pro, Bancroft Borg Personal, or Rossignol or Garcia racquets. Many all court players went with Davis or Spalding wood racquets.
     
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  13. david aames

    david aames Professional

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    Re: fee

    Roman has been on his own for a while but is now solely in charge of the space. The JCS stuff is gone, the space has been revamped and everything is managed under the **** Tennis name.

    His website is www.rpnytennis.com

     
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  14. Astennix

    Astennix Rookie

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    Just my two cents....I know Roman (and Todd) and they are really very nice guts who know A LOT about tennis. As correctly mentioned above, Roman is not working with Jay anymore (since last year).
     
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  15. Fee

    Fee Legend

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    Sorry to be the one to break it to you. No cream will get rid of wrinkles either. Anyway, I think the third point in your original post was meant for Prostaffer and not me. I've known about the paintjobs since last year when I was first getting into conversations with some of the players. Interesting that Robby has that much work done on his racquet. Maybe I can get him to show me one next time I see him.
     
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  16. Prostaffer

    Prostaffer Semi-Pro

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    ?

    i think many of us are arguing the same point just form different angles.

    yes federer could beat us with a spoon. i'm merely saying, and it's been confirmed by many, that his racquet is not radically different.

    it is a custom mold from wilson yes.

    the materials, if i'm lucky i'll be able to answer that after wednesday afternoon. :wink:

    yes players hire bosworths and racquet customizers to change their racquets. i wasn't speaking for all pro's. what i was saying, was that in the case of wilson, while there are wilson paint jobs, they have created what is called the Tech Center.

    this is meant to do for pro's what bosworth has been doing for ages. this is unique in the fact that the tech center can take the mold from a ncode 90, and tweak it slightly to the specifications of a roger federer. this means yes materials can be changed, weight can be changed, shape e.t.c.

    and yes, taylor's rok is more flexible. i can get pics but what can i prove with them? most of them are just "paint jobs" made to fool you.
     
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  17. intense2b

    intense2b Banned

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    Breakpoint I hate you!!

    Breakpoint,
    I hate you because you have forced me to thumb through Scanlons 222 page book to prove you wrong! You wrote basically that not all wood frames were the same except for the cosmetics. You say that they were very different. Please let me quote you from page 54 Chapter 4 entitled "equipment" just one short paragraph for now(there are many paragraphs on the topic and if you make me quote them then I will have to come over there and hurt you):

    "Although Wilson's Marketing department never admitted the fact (and probably wont even today), most players who tried the rackets agreed that, except for cosmetics, the rackets were virtually indistinguishable. The only difference between any of them was the cosmetic markings, such as the color of the plastic trim or the stain of the wood. The Pro Staff had small wooden diamond inserts laid into the fiberglass faceplate that had absolutely no effect on the playability of the racket. I used all three at one time or another and I'm sure that I could never have passed a blind test.
    The success of the Kramer Autograph continued long past the normal time span that companies expected for a typical branded frame, so the executives at Wilson decided to take advantage of their good fortune. Their plan was sheer marketing genious: They took the original frame, added a longer strip of wood along the handle running up the faceplate, changed the colors and decals, and, with new artwork , offered virtually the same racket as the "new" Stan Smith autograph. the Cris Evert Autograph, and the Billie Jean King Autograph, and so on.".....
    DONT MAKE ME TYPE ANYMORE PLEASE!!!!!!!
     
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  18. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    these frames were always of varying weights and balance points baed on the model..the stan smith auto was a club compared to the kramer and so forth. were they all made almost soley all of wood? sure they were and maybe that makes them identical somehow? scanlon prob has some bug up his butt about wilson. maybe they bagged his endorsement contract or something years ago and he is still bent up about it. no offense, but i wouldnt believe everything you read even from 'authorities'.... there really are WMD's over there right? so you dont think adding a longer strip of wood along the vertical access of a racquet isnt gonna change its playing characteristics?
     
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  19. intense2b

    intense2b Banned

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    NOBADMOJO..
    I am sure you are very knowledgeble about tennis but since I don't know who you are...I am going to believe what you term as the "authorities" over you. I think that Scanlon probably knows a little more about this topic than any of us on this entire website. Now if you want to give me a quote from Bosworth or something then thats fine....but in a match between SCANLON vs. NOBADMOJO....the score is 6-0,6-0,6-0 match to Mr. Scanlon!! As far as having a beef with Wilson that is not true because he attacks all companies (I will have to hurt you for making me type some more)....Here's a quote from page 56:

    "Other companies made various attempts to attract market share by offering slightly modified versions of a popular racket. The Dunlop Maxfli was probably the second-most popular frame on the market in the U.S. It was played by Rod Laver and a host of other Pros. When Laver renegotiated his endorsement contract with Dunlop, he agreed to play and promote the Rod Laver Elite Dunlop racket. Naturally it was the exact same frame as the Maxfli. New decals and a darker stain on the wood were the "new improvements."."......

    Mojo...are you trying to get me to type out this entire book so you don't have to pay for it?
     
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  20. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    no man..i am sorry..i'm just totally missing your point and that of scanlons. so companies make slight modifications and reissue similar products w. minour changes and new cosmetics..so? i mean car companies do this..everyone does this...i dont know that scanlon is really telling us much here and i am sure scanlon knows more than i do. but no worries man..type away if you like.
     
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  21. intense2b

    intense2b Banned

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    nobadmojo,
    Damn right car companies do the same freaking thing. I am really pissed. I just bought a lexus Gx470 SUV and gues what.....ITS THE EXACT SAME FREAKING SUV AS THE TOYOTA FOURRUNNER!!! UGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  22. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    intense2b,
    Your excerpts from the Scanlon book only talks about Wilson wood racquets being similar to other Wilson wood racquets and not other brands like Dunlop, Donnay, Bancroft, etc. I would generally agree that Wilson wood racquets were more similar to other Wilson wood racquets than they were to other brands. The Wilson Jack Kramer Pro Staff was indeed pretty similar to the Jack Kramer Autograph, which was marketed as being a slightly more flexible racquet in the same way that the Wilson Stan Smith Autograph was marketed as a stiffer racquet good for volleying (Vitas Gerulaitis used it). However, they did, in fact, have that similar "Wilson feel" to them.

    However, the Dunlop Maxply, Donnay Allwood, Bancroft, Spalding, Davis, etc. racquets had a very different feel from the Wilson wood racquets. THAT WAS MY POINT! Not all BRANDS of wood racquets were alike. Of course, within a brand, they will be more similar than outside the brand. That's still true today. Wilson Pro Staff racquets have a similar feel that's different from Head LM racquets that's different from Prince More racquets that's different from Babolat racquets that's different from Volkl racquets. Get it?

    BTW, I would argue that I may be MORE of an expert in this area than Scanlon is. It sounds like Scanlon mostly used the Wilson wood racquets during his career. Did he ever use a Dunlop Maxply or a Donnay Allwood or a Bancroft Borg Personal or any Spalding racquet? I don't know. But I know I did! I used all of these along with the Wilson Jack Kramers and the Advantage so perhaps I might be in a better position to compare and contrast between these different brands?

    Lastly, please calm down down and chill out, intense2b. You're beginning to live up to your screen name.
     
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  23. intense2b

    intense2b Banned

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    Breakpoint,
    You cannot be serious! You know more than Scanlon? Maybe you do...who are you? What books have you written? Are you a top ten player like Scanlon was? Do you know any other Pro's as well as Scanlon does? Were you close friends with Borg and Lendl? Did you play on a doubles team with Lendl? Did you grow up with Mcenroe since the age of 14? Did you ever have a tennis racquet named after you (The Fila Bill Scanlon autograph which was really a Jack Kramer!!!!....thus already proving your latest contention wrong)... If you did then maybe we should all listen to you.
    In any event, as far as me living up to my nic...well now you know why I picked it. Furthermore anyone who quotes Mcenroe should like a little intensity. In any event, instead of arguing with an expert and saying you know more than him....why don't you just admit that you are wrong. There is no shame in being wrong, rather than backtracking and saying "I didnt say that I said this bla bla bla. " In any event your latest change to your original contention is once again wrong. Read it and weep:

    "Bjorn Borg Took brand identity to an even higher level. Borg's Agents, Bob Kain and IMG , negotiated a monster endorsement contract for borg to use and promote the Donnay racket in the late 70's. Interestingly...Donnay never had a distribution capability in the U.S. and , thus, never marketed the racket used by the Wimbledon champion in the largest sports market in the world. Never one to miss an opportunity, Kain arranged for Borg's Donnay to exclude the U.S. He was free to make other arrangements, which he did with a great old company , Bancroft. Both were of course, Bjorn Borg autograph (signature) rackets, with marketing campaigns designed to maximize the association the world's number one player at that time. I don't thinkanyone would be surprised to learn that Borg actually used the same frames regardless of where he played in the world. Only the cosmetics were changed.".......I have more where this came from...but why dont you just read the entire book first so that you can then argue against Scanlon. I mean dont you think you first have to hear his entire argument before saying that he is wrong?
     
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  24. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    intense2b,
    If, in fact, Scanlon had never played with a Dunlop Maxply, then yes, I'd say I'm more of an expert on the Dunlop Maxply since I used that racquet for many years.

    I'm certainly not saying that I'm an expert on everything about tennis nor am I saying that Scanlon is wrong. He can say that all Wilson wood racquets were the same, which may or may not be true, since he did use Wilson wood racquets. If he said that ALL wood racquets were the same without ever having hit a ball with a Dunlop Maxply nor Bancroft Borg, then he is just generalizing without all the facts.

    Yes, I know that Borg used the same racquet which was painted to look like a Donnay when he played in Europe but painted to look like a Bancroft when he played in the U.S. How do I know? Because I owned and played with both the Donnay Allwood and the Bancroft Borg Personal and they were, in fact, different racquets and I knew Borg wouldn't switch racquets everytime he crossed the Atlantic.

    No, I was never on a doubles team with Lendl but I did use to play regularly with a guy that played against Lendl on the pro tour. No, I didn't grow up with McEnroe (although I did grow up around the same area around the same time), and I have hung out with Johnny Mac at the US Open.

    BTW, if you think that just because someone wrote a book that means they're an expert, then you have a lot to learn. Look at how many books are on the shelves at a bookstore or at the library. Do you truly believe all those authors are experts? :roll:

    Lastly, I reserve my intensity for the tennis court. I'm very mellow and laid back off the court but very intense on the court, perhaps even more so than "you know who". In fact, I probably make Hewitt look like he's in a coma. :shock:
     
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  25. intense2b

    intense2b Banned

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    Breakpoint.
    You have dug your heels in. I believe that there is no power on earth to make you utter the words: "I am wrong". I could keep on typing excerpts until my fingers turn blue and you still would not change your position (By the way Scanlon talks about most of the brand names out there....but read the book for yourself...I am not typing anymore). I have already made my point. I have nothing left to prove. The evidence speaks for itself and people can decide for themselves if you are more of an authority than Scanlon is.
     
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  26. rooski

    rooski Professional

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    Can I borrow some Tylenol?

    I never really liked Scanlon that much as a player but I guess I'll have to read his book now. Geez. I could have been half way thru it by now if I hadn't started reading this thread.

    Does all this mean that the Davis Classic I that I learned to play tennis with (with that flat skinny shaft) was really a Jack Kramer? Damn.... Now the Davis Classic II could easily have been a Jack Kramer with it's boxy shaft. Maybe the Classic I was really a Dunlop Fort. Kind of makes your head spin doesn't it. Now I really need some Tylenol :lol:
     
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  27. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    OK intense2b, I have seen the light. I was wrong. You are absolutely right! ALL wood racquets ever made in tennis history were exactly the same. They were ALL made in the same factory from the same design. All the racquet companies in the world just all bought their racquets from this single, solitary factory and painted them to look like different racquets and different brands. They had no choice since there was only one factory in the entire world that made wood racquets and only one person that knew how to design a wood racquet.
    Thus, Rod Laver's Dunlop Maxply, Borg's Donnay Allwood, McEnroe's Jack Kramer Pro Staff, Vilas' Head Vilas, Solomon's Garcia, and all the other Wilson Jack Kramer Autographs, TAD Davis, Spaldings, Rossignols, Bancrofts, Snauwearts, etc. were actually ALL the EXACT SAME racquet, right? How can I have been so blind?

    In fact, Jimmy Connor's steel Wilson T-2000 was also actually this same wood racquet, just with some chrome paint to make it look like it was steel.
    :wink: :roll: :lol:
     
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  28. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    hey get off intense and scanlon for they are right...all wood racquets were indeed made of wood! and they all had strings in them and almost all of them had grips too!
     
    #28
  29. intense2b

    intense2b Banned

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    Nice try guys, Its obvious that you guys are just to cheap to buy the book....LOL. I am not going to type 222 pages to argue with you! I tell you what though.....I think it would be much more intelligent to actually read his book before you argue against him. Oh...oops how can I be so stupid...you dont need to read his book because you know far more than Scanlon does. Please allow me to quote you:

    "I would argue that I may be MORE of an expert in this area than Scanlon is"
     
    #29
  30. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    intense2b,
    Don't mis-quote me. What I said was:

    "If, in fact, Scanlon had never played with a Dunlop Maxply, then yes, I'd say I'm more of an expert on the Dunlop Maxply since I used that racquet for many years."

    Just check above. I still stand by the above statement.

    Why do you believe that Scanlon knows everything there is to know about tennis? Is he a tennis God or something? Do you have pictures of him all over your walls? Do you pray to him every night? Just wondering.

    For some reason you seem to believe that just because someone wrote a book that they must be an expert on everything about that subject. You obviously haven't read too many books in your lifetime. I've read many, many books in which the author had no clue what they were talking about. Or else you'd only need like 10 books on management strategy instead of the thousands of books written by thousands of authors available at your local bookstore or library.

    Anyway, I'm not arguing with Scanlon. Everything in his book may very well be true. I'm arguing with your assertion that just because Scanlon was on the pro tour and used a Wilson wood racquet that somehow he's the expert on ALL wood racquets of ALL brands even though he may have never hit a tennis ball with any of those other brands.

    Can I claim to be an expert on ALL cars just because I've driven a few Fords out of the hundreds of different cars out there? I'd say not!

    BTW, you may find this hard to believe but Scanlon doesn't actually walk on water and he puts on his pants one leg at a time just like you and me. But, go ahead, you're free to preach to his likeness if you want. If McEnroe read this he'd be puking just about now.
    :roll: :wink: :shock: :lol:
     
    #30
  31. intense2b

    intense2b Banned

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    oops...read next post
     
    #31
  32. intense2b

    intense2b Banned

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    Your quote

    Breakpoint,
    I think you have actually reached your break point. I did not misquote you. I simply cut and pasted directly from your response. On 9/16/2004 at exactly 2:31 p.m. third paragraph frist sentence you said (cut and pasted again for your convenience again):

    "BTW, I would argue that I may be MORE of an expert in this area than Scanlon is."

    Please note that you actually capatilized the word "more". Game set and match,,,INTENSE2B!
     
    #32
  33. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Whatever......you know what I mean. My point is that if Scanlon had NEVER used any other wood racquet than Wilson wood racquets, then how can anyone accept that he's an expert on ALL wood racquets from ALL other brands?

    Since I had used many different wood racquets from many different brands, I would be in a better position to compare and contrast the similarities and differences between them, wouldn't I? This is, of course, assuming that Scanlon had used ONLY Wilson wood racquets and NOT any other brands.

    If you've driven nothing but Fords your whole life, how would you know how Chevys, Toyotas, BMWs, Hondas, VWs, Cadillacs, Jeeps, Porsches, etc. drive in comparison to your Ford? I certainly wouldn't label this person a car expert in this case.
    :roll:
     
    #33
  34. intense2b

    intense2b Banned

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    That's your response?? I just proved without even a shadow of a doubt that you did make the quote. Why not just admit it instead of saying something as pathetic as :

    "Whatever......you know what I mean."

    Your correct response should have been something like this:

    "oops...I stand corrected...no hard feelings." ,,,But , you would have to have a little more charachter to be able admit your mistakes and say something like that. You would rather do anything than admit that you are actually wrong. Thats really sad.

    Finally, please stop attacking me on other strings. You are just further embarrassing yourself. If you want to be angry at someone then look in the mirror.
     
    #34
  35. Gary Britt

    Gary Britt Guest


    I don't know who is more of an authority than whom, but I do know that Breakpoint is quite correct when he asserts that a Jack Kramer Autograph was a heck of a lot different from a dunlop maxply.

    Loved the Jack Kramer Pro Staff (never used the Autograph so can't say anything about comparison between Pro Staff and Autograph). I do remember that the Pro Staff's reputation was that it was the stiffest of the Wilson Woods (nothing like modern racquet's stiffness of course). I did try to play with a Dunlap Maxply once and I can tell you it was built different, felt different, and damn well played different. It was so different I put it down rather quickly and ran back to my Pro Staff.

    Ultimately I switched to the Arthur Ashe Head Comp II which I loved even more than my Jack Kramer Pro Staff. The PS 6.0 85 Original is the modern racquet that felt the closest to my Arthur Ashe Head Comp II.

    Gary
     
    #35
  36. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Read it and weep, intense2b. Here's an unbiased, independent, third party customer review of the Scanlon book from Amazon.com. It clearly states that Scanlon's memory was questionable and may have dropped names and sensationalized topics to sell the book. Scanlon is clearly NOT the definitive expert on tennis history. According to this obviously knowledgable reviewer, his book is full of inaccuracies. There were so many errors in his book, especailly about racquets, that this reviewer didn't have the time to list them all.
    Game, set, match - BreakPoint!!

    Excerpt from Amazon.com:

    A good read, but accuracy problems, August 22, 2004
    Reviewer: W. F. Walsh "Bill Walsh" (Washington, DC USA) - See all my reviews


    Bill Scanlon has a place in tennis history as the only player to win a set without the loss of a point in a tour event. He also was a nemesis of John McEnroe's, as much as Brad Gilbert ever was.

    While providing a nice glimpse of the Borg-Connors-McEnroe era from the inside, Scanlon's book puts forth the theory that McEnroe's enmity toward him was based on a case of mistaken identify. Wow!

    Unfortunately, as Scanlon asserts that McEnroe's memory is faulty, he raises credibility questions by revealing some memory problems of his own. This book is an extreme example of Walsh's Rule, which is that if you know anything about a subject, you'll find errors in just about any article or book on the topic.

    Among Scanlon's dozens of errors are some doozies. He incorrectly recounts two anecdotes that are so well known it's almost a cliche to even mention them.

    It was Connors, not Borg, who lost to Vitas Gerulaitis for the first time at the Masters, prompting Vitas to quip that nobody beats Vitas Gerulaitis [number of losses plus one] times in a row. (In fact, Borg never lost to Gerulaitis on the pro tour.)

    And it was Corrado Barazzutti, not Vilas, against whom Connors rubbed out a ball mark at Forest Hills.

    I could go on. Scanlon misspells Lleyton Hewitt and Henri Leconte. His recollections about rackets are particularly error-filled.

    Still, this is a book that hardcore tennis fans should read.

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...35412/sr=ka-1/ref=pd_ka_1/103-8005656-3057455
     
    #36
  37. intense2b

    intense2b Banned

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    Breakpoint

    OMG! You are right...I read it and I am weeping.....for you!!!!. Is that the best you can do? I asked you to admit that you said that you were more of an expert than Scanlon and your response is that some unknown person who bought the book says that Scanlon mispelled some stuff and that he mixed up some names...wow!!! For all we know...you could have written that opinion yourself. You just keep on embarassing yourself. Go ahead...say it...admit it already....YOU SAID YOU ARE MORE OF AN EXPERT THAN SCANLON. Just admit that you made that assertion. You have given new meaning to the term "girly man."
     
    #37
  38. intense2b

    intense2b Banned

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    Gary,
    All I can say is:

    You CANNOT be Serious! :D
     
    #38
  39. Feña14

    Feña14 Legend

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    OK so if this Prostaffer bloke is to be believed, then Federer changed from a Tour 90 to an Ncode90 in the space of a week coming of a win in Hamburg, and just before the French Open? :lol:

    -Liam
     
    #39
  40. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    intense2b,
    can't you read? The reviewer said about Scanlon: "His recollections about rackets are particularly error-filled."

    Maybe you're just dense or stupid or something? Do you believe everything in Scanlon's book just because he wrote it? If he told you that jumping off of the Golden Gate Bridge will improve your backhand, would you do it? If so, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

    Maybe you should just go back and jack-off to Scanlon's book since it obviously turns you on. Do you also wear his likeness around your neck? He is your personal hero, isn't he? McEnroe would be laughing his ass off right now!

    BTW, How could I have left this review on Amazon? It was written on 8/22/04 but this thread wasn't started until 9/13/04. Oh yeah, I can foretell the future and I knew this thread would be started in 3 weeks time and that some loser named intense2b would come onto this thread and make a fool of himself by declaring his man-love for Bill Scanlon. You're really pathetic! Get a life!! :roll:
     
    #40
  41. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    I’ve played with multiple models of the following
    wood rackets: Davis, Wilson, Dunlop, Bancroft, Spaulding. Scanlon’s “recollections” are whacked.

    In the Wilson’s ... the Smith was a club ... the Kramer Autograph was a touch head-heavier and “not quite” as stiff as the Pro-Staff ... (I did always wonder at the similarity of design of the King and the Kramer. And the Evert seemed just like the King, with only the slightest cosmetic differences).

    (Ah! The Fort. Best racket around ... for four or five sets. After that the top of the hoop got so whippy, it was time for a new one.)

    - KK
     
    #41
  42. intense2b

    intense2b Banned

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    Breakpoint,

    You have stooped to a new low . You will do anything and say anything rather than admit that you said you were more of an expert than Scanlon. You will make odd sexual remarks, talk about extraneous issues on Amazon, and simply try and confuse everyone on this board when the sole issue before us is whether you actually said that you were MORE of an expert than Bill Scanlon. You are really getting desperate now. So you now basically have three choices now:

    1. You can continue to personally attack me and cloud and confuse everything on this board rather than focusing on the fact that you think that you are MORE of an expert than Scanlon.

    2. You can simply be a man and admit it .

    3. You can choose to simply ignore that this ever happened and run away.


    I bet you choose the first option. Any wagers out there?
     
    #42
  43. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    intense2b,
    I'm not running away from anything. I've already stated before that "I still stand by what I said". I AM MORE OF AN EXPERT THAN BILL SCANLON ON THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN DIFFERENT BRANDS OF WOOD RACQUETS!!!! So is Gary Britt and so is Kaptian Karl. So is EVERYONE out there that has ever played with a wood racquet! And that's millions and millions of tennis players! You are obviously NOT one of them. There, are you happy now?

    EVERYONE who has used a wood racquet knows that Scanlon is cleary WRONG! You, for some perverted reason, choose to believe that Scanlon, the only person in the world that thinks ALL wood racquets were identical, is correct rather than the millions of people that actually played with wood racquets and know that they are different.

    You, my friend, are clueless, since you obviously have NEVER used a wood racquet. You are way over your head and are speaking about a subject you know nothing about! I have used many, many wood racquets in the '70's and 80's, so compared to you, I must be the freaking world authority on wood racquets!

    For some reason you seem to think that just because Scanlon wrote a book that he must be an expert. Guess what? You don't need to be an expert to write a book. Any moron can write a book. It's all about your ability to SELL the book. The publisher and the author are in the business to make money! You obviously bought into it hook, line, and sinker and gave Scanlon and his publisher your hard earned money. So sad. :(

    Now admit that you were a fool for believing Scanlon.
     
    #43
  44. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    Re: ?

    You just said that you had 1st hand experience with Dent's stick and it was stiffer, now you suddenly change because Greg Raven corrects you?

    The rest of your post is nonsense. You acknowledge the pros frames can be totally customized yet you then say it's almost the same? Of course, it's not like they have a Granny stick disguised as a pro staff, advanced player frames are relatively similar, but if you knew racquets you'd know even a small change in weight and balance can have a large effect on play, let alone, grip, mold, stringing pattern, weight etc. You aknowledge that some pros use custom molded frames....how much different do you want before you call it a different racquet?!
     
    #44
  45. intense2b

    intense2b Banned

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    nuff said.
     
    #45
  46. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    In the late 80’s my older brother went to the “family center” in upstate NY and -- as we all did -- joined the Men’s Doubles on Saturday morning at our very small club. He refused the offers of using all of our extra rackets and played with ... his (really old) Davis Classic II (!).

    My brother-in-law nearly quit tennis for good because my brother out-played him with that horrible stick. Every time I think about it, it still makes me laugh.

    - KK
     
    #46
  47. The Pusher Terminator

    The Pusher Terminator Banned

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    #47
  48. Jay34

    Jay34 New User

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    All of you conspiracy theorists and Federer wanna be's need to get over it and find something else to do. Seriously, you cannot determine what any pro is using by watching a match on tv and seeing his/her racquet for a split second. Unless you tape it, then super skow mo the part where they show their racquet, in that case, please refer to the first sentence of my post. Thank you
     
    #48
  49. Redflea

    Redflea Hall of Fame

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    Does anyone else think that Breakpoint and Intense2b are the same person? :)
     
    #49

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