Federer's racquet and retail

Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by akybo, Sep 16, 2011.

  1. akybo

    akybo Rookie

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    I have a question that I dont think it was answered yet,
    We all know Federer's racquet specs are the same(or verry close) to the retail racquet but...his sticks have lead tape on the head and I assume they have silicone in the handle too.
    The retail racquet has foam filled handle so I will argue about the head only.

    If Fed sticks have the same specs with retails but with lead tape under the head grommet...this means that the weight difference(coming from lead) on the retail racquet,it is distributed on the upper side of the head(to mimic the leadtape)?that,to have the same swingweight of Federer's racquets.
    I am guessing if that difference in weight it is distributed in other parts of the retail racquet,this will bring another SW different than Fed's.
    My conclusion: the retail K90 or BLX90 is the same as Federer's racquet but with "lead tape" included.
     
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  2. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    People claim to know but the reality is, we have no idea. I suspect his frames are made by Wilson with custom flex and or composition - then send to Priority One to be made the same as each other in terms of weight, balance and handle.

    His current frame is based on the K6.1 tour mould which, as shown in another lengthy thread, is ever so slightly different to the current BLX mould. Even then, some people even think this is merely a slight variation in the mould issue rather than an actual difference in design.

    (moulds wear over prolonged use and therefore can spit out ever so slightly different end products - say with less defined corners etc... or perhaps the composition of paint changes too and has an effect in that area)
     
    #2
  3. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    This is a great thread in the continuing mystery of what Roger really uses under the paint. Your findings are nearly spot on. However, the main difference we have found in our dissections at the Colorado School of Mines of both Roger's and the retail versions is the BLX Basalt Crystals found in Roger's are high end materials that sell on the Chicago exchange for $400 - 600 per ounce. While the retail uses cheaper BLX Crystals that are around $100 per ounce. The difference in the overall feel and control of the ball are light years difference between the 2. This is the secret to Rogi's near perfect game and why the average club player blows.
     
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  4. akybo

    akybo Rookie

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    :D this was ironic
    But my question is not the mold of fed's and retail,but the specs only.
    Does all I wrote above have a good logic or not?
     
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  5. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    it was also shown by the same school that those expensive crystals turn into the cheap ones when Innegra is around them...

    Anyway, I agree with the Junior here that we can only speculate and will probably never know the real details...
     
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  6. R1CKSO

    R1CKSO Rookie

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    Hello, well I must say that Fed's specs are waaay different from a retail frame, starting with balance, a stock strung BLX90 or K90 has a balance of around 29~30.5 cms and I say around because Wilson's quality control just sucks, in Fed's setup, he uses a balance of 32.2cms and very high swingweight his racquets weigh 364grams, he uses 4 3/8 grip whith just one wilson pro over grip, 10 string savers in a criss cross patter on the 4th and 6th crosses, he strings with babolat VS team at around 47~52 lbs and luxilon alu power rough at around 44~49, that's hes real setup, so to bring a stock frame to this specs you MUST remove weight from the handle because if you just add lead to the top at 12 o'clock you'll never reach 364 grams, so the general idea, is he gets select stock frames that are ligther so Mr. Nate Ferguson can easily bring the weight to 364 and achieve the desired balance.
    Hope this helps!
     
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  7. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    I seem to recall that Federer's racquets have a higher swingweight than the retail racquets, which would be expected since he add a bit of lead tape under the bumper guard.
     
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  8. morten

    morten Hall of Fame

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  9. R1CKSO

    R1CKSO Rookie

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    I don't mean to be rude or anything but I personally use the k90's I have 5 of them and before any customization was made to them, they all had a balance of around 30 to 31 cms but I must say that this was with an overgrip, they are very head light...
     
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  10. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    That's unstrung, right?
     
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  11. R1CKSO

    R1CKSO Rookie

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    No, that's strung that's why I added like 5 to 6 grams of lead @ 12 and I also had to drill and remove foam from the handle in order to remove some weight from the handle cause I don't like head light racquets...
     
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  12. FEDERERNADAL13

    FEDERERNADAL13 Hall of Fame

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    Fed's Specs as said by Fabfed:
    Headsize: 90 square inches
    Weight: 364 grams (12.8 ounces) strung
    Balance: 6 pts. HL
    Length: 27 inches
    String pattern: 16x19
    Swingweight estimate: 355
    Grip size: 4 3/8
    Lead tape placement: 8 grams @ 12 o'clock

    Does this help?
     
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  13. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Priority 1/Nate Ferguson has stated that the racket is basically the K90 with a few grams of lead at the top. Also Federer has special moulded pallets (for his prefered shape). I see no reason to distrust them, but its a matter of opinion.
     
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  14. akybo

    akybo Rookie

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    Yes,the strung weight was with overgrip so without og (-8g ;-10g) thats the same weight as the retail.
    What I didnt knew was the swingweight,I thought it is the same as the retail too.

    R1CKSO,what's the swingweight of your racquet now?
     
    #14
  15. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Actually, the Wilson Pro Overgrip that Federer uses it not that heavy. It should only add about 0.15 oz (~4 to 5 grams) to the racquet. That would bring his racquet up to 12.65 oz. from the retail stock 12.5 oz. The other 0.15 oz. is from the bit of lead tape that's added under the bumper to bring his playing weight up to 12.8 oz. That lead also makes his racquet less headlight than retail (6 pts. HL vs. 9 pts. HL retail) and increases the swingweight from 336 (retail) to 355.
     
    #15
  16. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    The auction sticks are PJs of a PJ.
     
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  17. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Sounds like 'Inception'... Leo will play Roger in the movie...
     
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  18. R1CKSO

    R1CKSO Rookie

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    #18
  19. R1CKSO

    R1CKSO Rookie

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    Hey buddy, I have just uploaded pics of the swing weight calcualtion I just did, I tried to be as precise as possible, I took 3 times and had an average, my scale is very precise since it is made for science lab and testing, so weight is also accurate, and after all I got:

    Weight: 364.2 grams
    Balance: 32.4 cms
    Distance from end of butt cap to hanging string: 64.2cms
    and finally, the average swing time: 13.7 seconds, so according to the swing weight calculator in TW, I got a SW of 354 which was pretty close or the same as suggested before by you...

    Hope this helps! :)
     
    #19
  20. ART ART

    ART ART Semi-Pro

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    Nice pics

    This was what I have said/post some years ago :)

    But since last months those specs are different :shock:

    I hope to have the new specs in a few days...

    Cheers
     
    #20
  21. R1CKSO

    R1CKSO Rookie

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    what specs are different? so, now Federer uses different specs??
     
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  22. FEDERERNADAL13

    FEDERERNADAL13 Hall of Fame

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    This is like the 5th Roger racket confirming these specs :) Very good to see I wasn't wrong!
     
    #22
  23. ART ART

    ART ART Semi-Pro

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    Yes, Fed is playing with different specs since last months :)

    Those values you post, I have posted in the past, you can search for it here on TT.

    I will have the new specs in the next days...

    cia
     
    #23
  24. R1CKSO

    R1CKSO Rookie

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    WoW! I' very interested in knowing the new specs he is using! and may I ask from what racquet or source is this information coming? :)
     
    #24
  25. FEDERERNADAL13

    FEDERERNADAL13 Hall of Fame

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    No you may not. :) ARTART can't share his source, but he's very legit.
     
    #25
  26. RJYU

    RJYU Rookie

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    I'd like to know where you get your information from. How do you know Roger is playing with different specs? I think he's playing with the same specs as always.
     
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  27. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Hey Ron,

    Just wondering if you've been stringing the prototypes that Federer has been trying and what kind of specs you've been seeing (including headsizes) or is that something you can't reveal?

    Thanks.

    :)
     
    #27
  28. R1CKSO

    R1CKSO Rookie

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    Ok, then I'll have to wait for what he says...
     
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  29. martini1

    martini1 Hall of Fame

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    My stock K90 strung with OG is 13 1/8oz. But I did picked the most HL one out of several in the store.
     
    #29
  30. SFrazeur

    SFrazeur Legend

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    Ron, it's painfully obvious he's more in-the-know than you are! His post count is higher than yours. . . .

    -SF
     
    #30
  31. RJYU

    RJYU Rookie

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    Roger hasn't been trying any prototypes this year, nor has he been trying different specs. That's not to say that that he won't be doing so later this year, but as of now there have been no changes. The great thing about Roger is that he's always willing to try different things, so I'm not sure what he'll want to do during the very short off season.
     
    #31
  32. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Interesting. Thanks for the response, Ron. :)

    There was a video posted on this board a few weeks ago that showed Roger practicing for the US Open with what clearly looked to be a 95 sq. in. or larger racquet. I'm not sure where that video is but could we all have been seeing things? Even I was convinced and I'm a huge believer that he should just stay with his current 90.
     
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  33. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    I saw that video too but wasn't as convinced. Whenever someone shows me stills even the racquet is from varying angles which can easily give the perception of smaller head sizes... so pics of other frames look bigger by contrast - the pics in the "Huge news about Federer's racket" thread for example.

    Notwithstanding, it's interesting to me what Ron says here and probably evidence that the stuff mentioned in the other thread was just the usual TT hype based on nothing other than some fool wanting to show he's in-the-know.

    P1 do all of Roger's customising and stringing but would that include demo racquets he tried when not in-season? Ron?

    I would have thought it's be simple and indeed astute of Wilson to easily have a couple of development guys who'd go to wherever Roger was training off-season (in Dubai for example where P1 don't service him if I recall from an old thread) and do some specific testing stuff right there and then with him - having multiple variations of flex/balance of a beta frame. How else would they ever develop the iterations of frames he's used otherwise? He is their biggest marketing plug so it makes sense to make best use of the the association.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2011
    #33
  34. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    You can clearly see the difference between 90 and 95 sq. in. just by watching the YT video someone took from 200 ft away??? Especially if it was the same PJ? You're amazing, as always ;)
     
    #34
  35. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Last edited: Sep 18, 2011
    #35
  36. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    #36
  37. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    I totally agree. I am not sure how can anyone CLEARLY see that there is about 5 mm extra on sides from his regular frame.
    Definitely his normal frame, unless that Prince of his coach is 180 sq. in ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2011
    #37
  38. akybo

    akybo Rookie

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    [​IMG][​IMG]
    It is quite easy to see.In the video is easier if it's not seeing from angles.
    LE: cant be sure in the video if it's bigger size though
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2011
    #38
  39. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    as always, thanks for your contribution.
     
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  40. Automatix

    Automatix Hall of Fame

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    Thank you once again for shedding some light on the subject and unmasking those posting untrue info.
     
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  41. fms

    fms Rookie

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    He was using his regular 90 Tour at the US Open. I can see at a few points in the video where one might think it's bigger, but it seems it's the angle.
    The only instance where I'm pretty sure he did use a bigger headsize was in that first set in the Davis Cup a while ago.
     
    #41
  42. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Not sure what video you saw, but if judging only by the video I posted, his coach's frame looks to be almost the same size as Federer's frame. I suggest you watch it again.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2011
    #42
  43. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Yes ofcourse he does secret testing without telling P1, ofcourse
     
    #43
  44. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Well, to be more precise, Ron did say that Roger has not played with prototypes this year. It doesn't necessarily mean that Roger hasn't hit with other non-prototype frames this year, such as a BLX 95 or some other Wilson racquets that other Wilson sponsored pros are using, such as the one Dimitrov is using, which is 93 sq. in. and not available to the public. I think Mahut also uses a 93 or 95 Wilson that is not sold to the public.
     
    #44
  45. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Me too.

    Amen. When we get some offseason spy pics, an announcement from his website or Wilson, or he shows up at Doha with a Snowshoe, I'll believe it. Until then, just 'fertilizer'.
     
    #45
  46. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    How do you know this?
    looks like a regular blx90
     
    #46
  47. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    "In the industry, Federer’s racket is generally considered the most challenging to handle, above all for the recreational set. Its 580-square-centimeter, or 90-square-inch, head is the smallest in use by a leading player today, although Aleksandr Dolgopolov and the rising star Grigor Dimitrov use the same model, but with a 93-square-inch head."

    http://www.playdudeplay.com/?p=12708

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
    #47
  48. 0d1n

    0d1n Hall of Fame

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    No he's not. He's just making stuff up to get attention.


    Subscribe to the above.
    Cheers RJYU.
     
    #48
  49. 0d1n

    0d1n Hall of Fame

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    You are posting a "blog" as evidence.
    I just read the whole NYTimes article which he claims is his source and nowhere is the Dimitrov so called 93 sq inch racquet mentioned.
    That's his "inside info" a.k.a speculation.
    The NYTimes article just "invents" a subject and puts some "bla bla" around it...there's nothing "new" in there either.
    There is no way in h3ll Wilson would make a special one of a kind racquet for DIMITROV.
    For Federer...that's possible. For Dimitrov ?? Not unless hell freezes over or he gets to be top 5-ish.
     
    #49
  50. corners

    corners Legend

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    The reason why some think it's a larger frame is because that video has a distorted aspect ratio. It's compressed from top to bottom, or stretched from side to side, like if you watch a 4:3 feed on a 16:9 TV. Notice how Fed looks shorter and thicker than normal. When he's talking to Anacone and drops his racquet head so it's hanging straight down the head looks really wide, just like his trunk does in this distorted video.
     
    #50

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