Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by andrehanderson, May 10, 2014.
Ttt for feedback. Thanks!
Slappy strokes. They're causing you a bunch of problems:
1. You're standing way behind the baseline to receive medium paced balls. If you were to stand in closer, where you should be standing, I'll bet you'd spray a lot of shots.
2. You're still spraying shots.
3. You're not putting enough topspin on the ball and are relying on a combination of low net clearance and gravity to keep your shots in the court.
Start with this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ot2xQJRJ5Q and then you can work on adding more power and spin.
With the exception of a couple of balls, the balls coming from the machine are landing at or beyond the baseline so I really don't think I need to be any closer, unless I want to volley.
I agree my shots are too slappy, particularly on the forehand side. The rest of your advice is a bit strange, but thanks for the taking the time regardless.
You have to realize that most of the people giving advice on this forum shouldn't be. They do so to feed their fragile egos, they themselves can barely play at all. They have no ranking (now or ever), in fact rarely compete at all, and have little understanding of the sport and how it should be played.
Trust me, you're going to get a lot more 'strange' advice before this thread is done. Take it with a grain of salt, you're getting what you paid for...
your backhand looks sweet. i left a longer comment on the video itself.
I have to disagree - in my experience, when a video is posted, very often the advice is good.
It's not unusual for threads to go a bit mental and plenty of posters do talk a lot of waffle, but again, on videos, the advice is generally good.
+100, lol, best comment ever
anyway, I think your BH is a more solid shot - on your FH, a better analyst will comment, but there is something unusual going on with the use of your wrist, somehow the excessive floppiness occurs for a reason that is not good. It appears as a result it is difficult for you to control depth and pace and spin consistently.
A loose arm and a wrist that is utilised as a consequence of good stroke mechanics is a good thing, but I think from what I see, something is off and the movement in the wrist somehow detracts from the stroke.
There is not much or no top spin on either FH or BH - that is not necessarily a problem, but that is linked to some lack of control and consistency I would wager.
You started this thread to ask for feedback. You said it "would be greatly appreciated." I give you honest feedback, and this is how you react?
Look, you're about eight feet behind the baseline to receive a slow to medium paced ball from a ball machine. Yes, the incoming ball was quite deep in the court, but if you're this far back in match play against similar balls, it's not good. You don't have Rafa Nadal or Bjorn Borg speed to cover shorter/angled shots when your opponent hits them. And the racket face is way too open for this stage in the swing. You'll have to close it rapidly to make the ball go straight, and when you mistime the closing, you'll send the ball long or into the net, which you do multiple times in the video.
What do you contribute to the forum aside from insulting people? Maybe you should give the OP some advice.
I find this article pretty helpful.
It's a good one.
Yes I didn't watch the video but looking at the picture that Topspin highlighted, the open racket face at the end is a tell tale sign.
Thank you for proving my point. In the video you posted of yourself playing in your 'Me Hitting Around' thread you are hitting from much further behind the baseline on balls nowhere near as deep, falling backwards, and hitting like you're playing over a volleyball net. Why should he take your advice? What are your expert credentials?
Now go cry to the mods...
Guys there is no need for any aggression here. Just keep it related to technical advice please.
He should take my advice because it's good advice. Rather than attacking me, why don't you offer some advice of your own? It should be no problem for an expert coach like you.
Right now both FH and BH are quite flat and not sure how much control you have over the racket face, sometimes you catch the ball late on the BH, and it morphs into a really flat slice to compensate. In general shots are quite smooth though so it seems like you have good timing.
What kind of groundstrokes would be your ideal model? Flatter, more conservative-grip shots, or do you want to change to more modern, spin-oriented strokes?
Mere "Ad Hominem". You are trying to discredit his advice because of how he actually plays. However, because he doesn't do what he peaches doesn't mean that what he preaches is wrong.
I'm going to side with TS on this case. The BH looks good; but he's slapping on the FH side. The inconsistency of the position of the wrist creates an inconsistent hitting zone; because depending of the FHs, his wrist position isn't the same, which means the position of his racquet varies and hence the position of the outcoming ball varies.
On the pic Ts posted, the OP is doing exactly what is described in this video.
Not sure why you've decided to take issue with Topspin Shot's analysis. The OP's forehand does indeed appear to be "slappy". This type of shot will almost certainly break down under pressure, or from heavy topspin drives.
I reacted that way because your feedback was limited to speculation (I'd spray balls if I were standing closer), a failure to recognize that most of the balls the machine was sending were landing at or beyond the baseline, and a misrepresentation of a few missed shots (which took place immediately after I knocked part of the machine down and stopped because I thought I had caused it to pause) as "spraying balls."
And then there was the analysis that my balls are only landing in because of gravity, which seemed strange because I am pretty sure it affects us all equally.
Anyway, your second post, the one I'm quoting, is indeed very helpful and had you started off with something constructive like this, I would have been much more grateful. This second post is excellent and I do thank you for it (although you are still failing to recognize that the ball machine is sending balls long ).
Thank you! I saw the response! Much appreciated! I can hit a decent two-handed backhanded but I'm in love with the one-handed so I'll probably continue to work on that instead. I havent tried a two-handed forehand...not really open to it (too set in my ways, I guess), but thanks again!
Thanks! Yeah, my wrist is a major problem, and I think that my opening the racquet face is what's causing it to be a problem. The feedback on this thread helped a lot, particularly the article Matt posted.
Awesome! Thank you very much!
Did you read all my posts? The OP acknowledges he is slappy--he took issue with some of the other things TS said. My point is that most of the advice given here is being given by players who could not even beat the players they are giving advice to. They do it from their bedrooms in their parent's house to make themselves feel better. I actually cringe when I read some of the so called 'expert advice' being dished out to people who are really looking for help--they just don't realize that they are getting advice from players often less experienced than they are. I pointed this out to the OP so he would not be fooled into thinking he was getting advice from certified coaches, but from purely recreational players like him.
That is an excellent video, thank you. I think you are exactly right.
But the strange thing is, I think you guys would be surprised at my consistency and pace on the forehand side if you were to ever hit with me. That doesnt mean I think Im doing it correctly, because I totally recognize the slappiness of it and the need to fix it, but I dont think it is making me inconsistent or my shots uncontrollable.
Honestly, my game on a good day is like a poor man's Blake. I hit relatively flat, hard and deep shots. I am able to hit with much more top spin, but I seem to always try to finish the point with flat shots to the corners. I need to learn patience and more of the european game, I think.
Thanks so much. I think I can learn something from all types of players, as long as they are pointing out where or how I'm making mistakes, not just the results of the mistakes. Saying that I'm spraying balls--which I didnt think was even accurate--doesn't really contribute much, and even worse is to speculate that I WOULD SPRAY MORE balls if I stood closer. imo
The gravity part just means that your shots seem on the flat side for a rally ball. So gravity and low clearance are more responsibile for bringing them in than spin. I realize the machine is sending the ball deep, but what do you do in a match when your opponent hits a rally ball deep? And sorry if I came off as overly abraisive in my first post.
It doesn't matter how good of a player the coach is. Is Toni Nadal better than Nadal? Is Marian Vadja better than Djokovic? What about Nick Bollettieri? I hit better than my old coach but I still took his advice. The fact is that there are plenty of good coaches who aren't able to hit the ball the way they preach, but they have a good eye for noticing certain elements.
What is your advice for him? Many posts from you but no advice.
Fair enough, man...fair enough. And you're take on some of the advice here in the forums is probably accurate.
I do take issue with the notion that someone must possess shots to critique/teach shots. It's like saying Phil Jackson can't coach Kobe because Phil himself can't dunk or break ankles.
No worries, sorry for my response, as well. Thanks again for the advice.
Experienced professional coaches vs recreational players--apples and oranges...
Then point him to a good YouTube video of a particular stroke or something, if you really want to help him out.
You just sound bitter about something.
Can you give him some advice already?
This is why I'm an advocate of:
"Oh you want to fix people's strokes and have them listen to you? Sure, post of a video instead of your mathematical formula."
Look man, people are going to make a big deal out of nothing. I'm sure someone will comment on what people do with their off-hand on a forehand.
Doesn't matter where the advice is coming from nor the quality of advice really. People who are ready to learn and deserve to learn will learn and improve. Likewise, if you are not learning something or not improving you are not ready or deserve to improve.
Was that Thomas Jefferson that said that?
You asked for advice and Topspin Shot gave you an excellent one. If you are going to challenge the advice, why bother asking?
Your forehand is very wristy and Topspin gave you a good video link for you to try to fix that.
Strong calves, how do you exercise them?
It's a miracle that you're able to hit flat and hard without doing something bad to your arm/shoulder. Right now your FH swing is much like a shortened version of a baseball swing - coming under the ball with open racket face and scooping over, hoping that you did get some spin on the ball - I can't believe for a second that you can finely control how much spin you put on the ball. Also the way you hit, you have to sort of torque the racket down and around the elbow - its very hard to control a movement like that. Its the kind of movement pros use to smash the ball out of the stadium at the end of a match
Couple of adjustments you can take or leave -
keep the racket and elbow far away from your body all the time (prep, swing, follow thru) - imagine there's an air cushion separating you from your elbow.
Attack the ball with the racket handle, your thumb, and the top edge of your racket, with this whole unit far away from the body and in front of the plane of the chest. What this does is it locks in a good racket angle taht you can consistently hit the ball with. It should feel like youre compressing the ball to a pancake, and not slapping it, and no matter how hard you swing, the ball will stay somewhere close to in.
Dimitrov forehand should be a good model for you - he hits a flat ball but still plenty of spin and good modern elements: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZNfUTnBjAk
Hope it helps
You need to have the ball machine feed you balls that bounce higher with medium topspin and land a little shorter. You will find that your current stroke mechanics won't handle those too well on either side.
Good stuff, psv. In fact, everyone's given good advice except for JW10s. I'd really love to hear what he has to say.
Hitting is OK.
Lack of a clear target makes hitting a waste of time.
ANY time you hit, you hit to a target.
Sure, technnical problems exist with your hitting, both sides, but the main problem is that you are really not practicing anything at all.
I agree. I like your backhand. Nice, smooth motion, you could maybe bend your knees a bit more.
The forehand is indeed a bit slappy, as others have noted. Lots of folks will tell you to change your swing, etc etc... I'd just say, in the name of simplicity, bring your racquet back earlier and you might get better results using exactly the same swing (and bend your knees).
Most folks have real difficulty making major changes to their swings - muscle memory gets pretty sticky by a certain age. Personally, I think it's best to tweak little things rather than try to make big changes because the big changes rarely work.
Just my two cents... Importantly, I'm not a teaching pro, so my advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
Perhaps you are not being put under pressure when playing the stroke, ie facing deep heavy strokes, being made to move around a lot, receiving incoming shots with varied pace, spin, placement. If your stroke holds up under pressure, and is consistent, then it is an effective stroke....
The players I play with who have the above kind of effective stroke are generally first team club players (i am second team) and they are very good generally.
I have always had big legs, but have always been really active in sports--tennis throughout jr high and high school, then five years of kickboxing, the 16+ years of Brazilian jiujitsu, and now back to tennis (2 years)--so I guess that shaped them.
Really good analysis, thank you!
I didnt mean to imply that I can finely control the top spin, but I can hit with much more top spin than I'm using in the video and I am able to put the ball largely where I want it. That said, I do see my forehand as a glaring weakness overall and I think you nailed much of the reason why.
I use a lot of top spin on short balls. I'll link to videos in which I'm playing points or hitting short balls.
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