Ferrer, victim of his era or less talented?

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by pjonesy, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. Anaconda

    Anaconda Hall of Fame

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    Safin never got a chance at Wimbledon; 2003 he was injured, 2004 he had blisters, don't even want to speak about how injury messed him up in 2005 and am not going to speak of how 2006 onwards was because of 2005.
     
    #51
  2. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Roddick has 4 AO SF compared to Ferrer's two and also has 2 Miami titles and a IW final, they're not roughly equal on slow HC, Roddick is plain better.

    Regardless IMO in this case there's no need to break it down surface by surface when Roddick's whole career is clearly superior to Ferrer's by a good margin.

    I mean Roddick has 5 slam finals, reached #1 and finished the year in top 10 for almost a decade, Ferrer took forever to win a freakin masters title, there's just no comparison.
     
    #52
  3. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    This thread needs to be moved, in what world is Ferrer a "Former Pro Player"?
     
    #53
  4. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    Delete post
     
    #54
  5. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    And in 2012 Nadal was #4. See the difference?
     
    #55
  6. jean pierre

    jean pierre Semi-Pro

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    Ferrer is exactly like Higueras or Clerc. Great player, but not a Grand Slam winner.
     
    #56
  7. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    There's no contest even on slow HC , just some more facts :

    roddick survived younes al ayanoui's brilliance in AO 2003 QF, had a close battle with a resurgent safin in AO 2004, beat an in-form ancic in AO 2007, beat djoker in AO 2009(who retired ), survived a zoning gonzalez in AO 2010 ....

    and ferrer ? beat an injured nadal in AO 2011, that's about it

    roddick is 38-11 @ the AO with 4 SFs, 2 QFs

    ferrer is 28-11 @ the AO with 2 SFs ( wouldn't have reached the 2nd one without a mega-choke from almagro ) , 2 QFs

    roddick won miami twice and reached the final of IW in 2010 ..ferrer hasn't made a single final @ either of those 2 masters
     
    #57
  8. TheCheese

    TheCheese Professional

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    His style of play is very consistent and relentless, but because he is so one dimensional he can't beat the top guys. I don't think it's all about his height, it's that he chooses to play a one dimensional game and doesn't get enough drive on his groundstrokes to hurt the top guys. Look at Nishikori, he's just slightly taller than Ferrer yet packs quite a punch.

    His situation kind of reminds me of Roddick, where he's very consistent and wins a lot but doesn't want to try to make the necessary changes that would give him a shot to beat the top guys.
     
    #58
  9. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Roddick is better than Ferrer overall but it is funny how Ferrer is far and away better than Roddick on both the slowest (clay) and faster (indoor) surfaces.
     
    #59
  10. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    He's a beneficiary as much as a victim of his era. The drop off in talent after Fed-Murray-Nadal-Djoker, the collectively slower surfaces overall. You can ask if he'd win a Slam in another era, but you should also ask if he could be a Top 5 player making a bunch of Slam QFs and SFs in another era.

    He's a great player, no doubt, but I don't see him winning Slams in any other era. As someone pointed out, Chang could only muster one Slam.
     
    #60
  11. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Nadal was injuried.I was comparing Ferrer to glorious nº 4.it is a nightmare for todays " strong" era...
     
    #61
  12. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    Well, despite Nadal's injury, Ferrer has played well, has won a lot of tournaments and racked up points, not to mention consistency, thus justifying his #4 ranking.
     
    #62
  13. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Ferrer is light years behind everyone of the real top 4 and everyone knows it. It took almost 7 months in a 12 month rolling system of Nadal not playing any competitive tennis for Ferrer to finally pass him in the rankings which says it all about the enormous gulf between him and the big 4. Until Nadal comes back everyone of the top 3 prays for Ferrer in their half so they have a cakewalk to the final.
     
    #63
  14. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Well, Ferrer's movement/defense, fitness and consistency make him a good CC player by default and Roddick was a terrible CC player.

    However Ferrer arguably plays his best tennis (especially against the top dogs) on faster surfaces/conditions which allow him to hit through court and put his opponent on the defensive more easily (similar to Hewitt for example).
     
    #64
  15. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    Where was he tonight, when Spain got clobbered in Davis Cup by Canada?
     
    #65
  16. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    Where was Hoad in the overwhelming amount of pro majors finals lost?
     
    #66
  17. mattennis

    mattennis Hall of Fame

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    Ferrer is very consistent, a great returner, absolutely great stamina and he is fast as well. He hit quite flat (by today's standard) and on the rise.

    But his game is quite....one-dimensional.

    He has no touch, very average volleys skills, and he lacks the ability to hit easy winners.

    He has played many of his best matches (tennis-level-wise) on the fastest indoor conditions (fast by today's standard), probably because there he has it way more easy to hit winners and because he is one of the best returners of the tour.

    But he has nothing extra-special.

    Players like Roddick, Hewitt or Chang were clearly better overall than Ferrer.

    I think Ferrer would have been a top-10 player in other eras as well, but I can't see him winning a GS tournament (or more than maybe one M-1000) in any era.
     
    #67
  18. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    Pro majors lost? You joke.
    Hoad had a great record in the biggest events.
    What's that? You want me to recount them?
    A pleasure.

    1) 1957 The Hague df. Rosewall in marathon 5-set final (most important clay final of 1957)
    2) 1957 Cairo df. Rosewall in marathon five-set final
    3) 1958 Kooyong df. Gonzales in decider
    4) 1959 Forest Hills Pro df. Gonzales in final
    5) 1959-60 Kooyong df. Rosewall in final
    6) 1960 New Zealand tour df. Anderson in decider
    6) 1960 Japanese Pro df. Rosewall in marathon five-set clay final
    7) 1961 Kramer Cup df. Trabert in final decider
    8) 1962 Facis Trophy wins Italian tour on clay
    9) 1962 Kramer Cup df. Olmedo in final
    10) 1963 Australian tour df. Laver at Kooyong on television
    11) 1964 New Zealand tour df. Laver, Rosewall, Anderson

    I would say an overwheming number won.
     
    #68
  19. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    Hoad always showed at his best in Davis Cup and Kramer Cup.
    Where was Ferrer this week when Canada was clobbering Spain?
     
    #69
  20. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    :confused::confused::confused:

    Runner-up 1958 French Pro Clay Australia Ken Rosewall 6–3, 2–6, 4–6, 0–6
    Runner-up 1958 US Pro Indoor United States Pancho Gonzales 6–3, 6–4, 12–14, 1–6, 4–6
    Runner-up 1959 US Pro Indoor United States Pancho Gonzales 4–6, 2–6, 4–6
    Winner 1959 Tournament of Champions Grass United States Pancho Gonzales 6–1, 5–7, 6–2, 6–1
    Runner-up 1960 French Pro Clay Australia Ken Rosewall 2–6, 6–2, 2–6, 1–6
    Runner-up 1961 Wembley Pro Indoor Australia Ken Rosewall 3–6, 6–3, 2–6, 3–6
    Runner-up 1962 Wembley Pro Indoor Australia Ken Rosewall 4–6, 7–5, 13–15, 5–7
    Runner-up 1963 Wembley Pro Indoor Australia Ken Rosewall 4–6, 2–6, 6–4, 3–6

    ....

    1 win in 8 total finals. Even Murray's got a better win percentage in finals compared to Hoad's pro majors.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
    #70
  21. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    Ferre's no Davis cup mug, he's 23-4.
     
    #71
  22. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    Notice that "0-6" in the 1958 RG final? What happened, his back was wrenched reaching for a ball while he was leading the match.

    Your rating of "majors" differs from mine. I would include Kooyong and the Kramer Cup, plus the New Zealand tours, and The Hague in 1957.
    The "US Pro" events in Cleveland were unaccredited.
    Hoad was a part-timer after 1959.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
    #72
  23. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    What happened this week, when he is much needed?
     
    #73
  24. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    eh, what are you on about ?

    The Davis Cup these days is nowhere close to being as important as it was in the earlier days ....

    he's been part of 3 Davis Cup winning teams for Spain ... he's done more than enough ...
     
    #74
  25. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Yup, and how about that Davis Cup final a month ago? Ferrer dominated Berdych and Stepanek in straights during both of his rubbers and Spain still lost the tie.

    Ferrer has done more than enough, I agree.
     
    #75
  26. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    yep ..

    10 chars ..
     
    #76
  27. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    My rating of pro majors is what are defined as pro majors by tennis media authorities that I've seen online.
     
    #77

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