Finally, evidence that the 1hbh can do something better than the 2hbh: topspin

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by tennis_hack, Jun 29, 2013.

  1. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Since the return is the second-most important stroke in the game, isn't this a HUGE disadvantage for the 1 hander?
     
    #51
  2. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    All two handers aren't Agassi, Djokovic or Ferrer either returning in no-man's land. Federer was making it work against Roddick of all players. Especially since you need that extra step to get the ball. You can just slice the ball back or block it, there's nothing wrong with that. Heck, you can even return much further behind the baseline, a lot of players do it against big servers whatever the backhand. Gasquet loves to do it since it allows him to take a full swing and if possible initiate a BH rally. It's hard to attack a slice, and you gain time from doing so. If your opponent has exceptional transition game, a hard serve and good volleys, he's probably better than you are, whatever his backhand. And you have no business hitting against him.
     
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  3. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    I dunno about huge. If it was huge guys like Federer wouldn't win with it. Fed and other pros learn to hit an open stance OHBH. Which while awkward is fairly effective against a serve.
     
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  4. Kilco

    Kilco Guest

    Great stat. Proves that one hander can generate a lot of topspin generally more than a two hander.

    Still though, its a shame that the shot even at its maximum that we have seen still is weak when compared to a solid two hander.

    Was talking to a number of coaches recently who I argued that the one hander can still be thought and they all said it should not be. One coach had a player with an amazing onehander, told him he should use two hands and has got a lot of great results since he made the switch.
     
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  5. JohnYandell

    JohnYandell Hall of Fame

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    Someone who subscribes to Tennisplayer could go in there and count the spin on multiple dozens of backhands.

    I haven't mined all the data myself although probably would if I could clone myself.

    But a dozen or so Fed bhs I did look at averaged about 2300rpm, with a range of 1400rpm to 3300rpm

    I looked about a dozen of nadal and his average was 2200rpm
    with a range of 1600rpm to 3300rpm.

    You need more events and more players but basically I think what you would still find is that in general the backhands are hit with less spin than forehands and that in general the potential spin ranges are similar for the one and two. That doesn't mean some players won't choose to hit at one end of the range or the other. I looked around and found some old Safin data we hadn't published. Again about a dozen forehands at 2200rpm and a dozen backhands at 1500rpm.

    So you have to separate the potential from the style.

    I wouldn't doubt though that Gasquet could average over 3000rpm if he wished. Gaudio might have been in that range or even Henin. Just speculating here so don't quote this as the final truth.

    I also revisited the first studies of spin on the backhands we did at the 97 Open:

    Sergi Bruguera 2H 6 events 1667-3000rpm av 2382rpm
    Tomas Muster 1H 6 events 1500-3333rpm av 2264rpm
    Pete Sampras 1H 8 events 1875-2830rpm av 2204rpm
    Mark Philippousis 1H 3 events 1667-2419rpm av 2029rpm
    Andre Agassi 2H 14 events 790-2500rpm av 1754rpm

    Again you see ranges that are quite broad, probably somewhat grip dependent, and probably reflective of style as much as anything else.

    To me the whole one or two is better debate is pretty much insoluable and probably a waste of time. Some players are natural one way or the other. Players have different grips and styles. But when you see 8 of the last 16 at the French hit with ones it tells you something.

    Now if you could clone those 16 and teach them both--then you'd be on your way to a possible conclusion.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2013
    #55
  6. corbind

    corbind Professional

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    JY, you're a smart man. It's a lot of fun to peruse data like you provided and added insight. Post like yours helps balance/dilute some some junk others fling at the forums.
     
    #56
  7. JohnYandell

    JohnYandell Hall of Fame

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    C Bind,

    Thank you! It's a crazy tremendously dynamic sport. We all want to understand and we try...but sometimes it isn't easy...
     
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  8. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Gasquet likes to hit both driving and looping backhands so that would need to be taken into account in relation to spin.
     
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  9. halalula1234

    halalula1234 Professional

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    I use the same grip as gasquet and my backhand is my main weapon and has a lot of spin. one thing that i like about 2 handers more than 1 is that it can handle really fast skidding balls a tad bit better by having 2 hands to help u block it back
     
    #59
  10. nat75

    nat75 Rookie

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    A Gif of Sabatini's backhand

    [​IMG]
     
    #60
  11. GatorNation

    GatorNation New User

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    I'm not sure how Gasquet does it, but my 1 HBH is flat. Almost too flat.
     
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  12. nat75

    nat75 Rookie

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    Being there I pretty much concur with everything you said. I think they massively teach 2hbhs in beginners due to a thing with strengh (especially on girls). I think coaches should give the chance to their pupils to try the 1hbh. Especially for those who show a certain pattern and they can always switch back to the 2hbh. They say it's easier for anybody who first learned the 2hbh to switch to the 1hbh because the left hand wouldn't be a liability like in the inverse order.
     
    #62

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