Finding my strokes after 20 years. Stroke video inside

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Greg G, Jul 1, 2012.

  1. Gyswandir

    Gyswandir Rookie

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    thx

    Thanks for the response Cheetah. That makes me feel better about my stroke.

    I totally agree on the rhythm part & this is probably where I still have a long way to go.

    BTW Greg, I don't know if this makes it any easier for you, but when I was relearning my FH, my coach kept telling me that the forearm simply supinates after left hand separation. For the life of me, it just didn't feel normal.
    I believe it is due to how I hold my racket, with the left hand. Essentially, the racket face is almost facing toward the net (probably around 1 or 2 o'clock), as I don't hold the racket edge, rather both sides of the throat between thumb and other finger.
    So, supinating from there is somewhat awkward. Just letting the forearm drop (almost feels like falling forward) is much more natural. This leads to the racket head pointing around 3/4.
    After that, all what Cheetah says about SSC happens automatically: as you uncoil, the forearm and the wrist just lag and the racket head eventually points somwhere around 6/7 o'clock, before starting to move out (right and foreward)
    It was mainly due to my lack of comfort with the supination teaching that I follwed this thread & tried out what Cheetah says, especially after watching the different Fed FH videos

    Disclaimer: I am by no means an instructor of Tennis and the above is just my description of how I do what I think Cheetah is telling you
     
  2. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    Thanks Gyswandir! I don't know how well the 'falling forwards" analogy will work, especially with Cheetah talking about my balance, but I do get what you mean. Sometimes I even feel a straight takeback would be easier.

    What I find is important for me is keeping the right elbow relatively high. If it stays low, I tend to presupinate WTA style. Anyway, I put it on the backburner while I fix the balance issues. For all we know, it might work itself out along with it...
     
  3. DarlesChickens

    DarlesChickens Semi-Pro

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    Hi Greg,

    Just wanted to say what a great thread this has become. Some really useful/helpful tips and advice handed out.

    Keep up the good work...:):)
     
  4. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    Thanks! Nice to know that others find the tips here useful. Even I sometimes go back to the earlier posts to revisit things I thought I understood, but only now really do.

    Anyway, just got back from a week's vacation- almost 2 weeks from tennis. Was good, all the little aches and pains that I accumulated are now gone. Ready to get back out there... :)

    Anyway, to keep this post interesting...anyone ever try warming up with red balls? Was trying to teach my 9 year old to play, and the red ball looked so amazingly slow I had to try it for myself. Pretty nice to slow everything down and warm up the strokes!

    http://youtu.be/e-421FM8FPg
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2013
  5. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    Hoo boy. Take 2 weeks off, and the timing is all messed up...even my stamina is down :(

    Trying to be mindful of balance and weight transfer...
    http://youtu.be/jfi7M1xQEgs

    Did some practice on the doubles return game...any advice welcome. Is my racquet too low in the volley ready position?
    http://youtu.be/KWOns1DXLgs
     
  6. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    A better view of my backhand slice. Has a tendency to get floaty when I'm lazy and don't get enough shoulder into it...

    http://youtu.be/nmz2aJK20v0
     
  7. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    Worked on hitting through the slice more, for more penetration. Looks better now, and I can knife it down the line again:

    http://youtu.be/GpqFNs9v5L0

    [​IMG]

    The "Sharapova"/WTA component is back in the forehand though. Gotta go back to fix that for the umpteenth time. :mad:

    http://youtu.be/th_QQTKnVPc
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2013
  8. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    Have a 3 week break between tournament matches, so I spent some time yesterday on stroke maintenance, working on the forehand and the serve. The forehand swing was getting a bit long, so I worked on shortening it up and loosening up.

    Warmup:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltYlxQfDxLI

    Hitting:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5mFFSIDcQA

    I think it was a productive session...I felt I was projecting the racquet head to contact better.

    Slow motion (sorry it was cropped from grainy video):
    http://youtu.be/wGHwolCAblc

    Even if it looks OK on video, still sequence brings out all the flaws. I know it has the left foot steppy you don't like Cheetah, but I think I was able to balance and push off the right enough. Working on the footwork as always :)
    [​IMG]

    My tip for the day is: don't do a Spanish x drill when you're tired :)
    http://youtu.be/-G_6Aw9hoak
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  9. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    I left some comments at YouTube on the other vids. Just wanted to say that I think your backhand slice is coming along nicely. Not yet as good as mine when I'm 'on' :))), but getting there. :) Of course, it might be argued that I haven't actually been 'on' since '76, but that's just nitpicking imho. :)
     
  10. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    I get tired just reading the names of Spanish players like Ferrer and Nadal. I much prefer the German ampersand drill which involves long rest periods and consuming mass quantities of whatever fermented grain beverage might be readily available. :)

    But seriously, those 'Spanish' drills are absolutely fantastic. They build stamina and force you to learn to anticipate and prepare properly even when you're gassed to the max.
     
  11. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    Thanks Tom! Yeah, I may complain about it, but I do feel they help a lot. Footwork, stamina, shot selection, being loose under pressure. Awesome workout. Hopefully I can work myself up to a true X (I only did 3 points there.)
     
  12. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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  13. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    Tried hitting hand fed balls on the fly, supposedly helps you shorten the backswing and improve on RHS...felt good, hope it helps the actual groundstrokes. I think it helps with the SSC...

    http://youtu.be/ODtLlXc82Ps

    Slow mo, forehand and backhand:
    http://youtu.be/p-VwIvt_pUw
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013
  14. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    In the HSV, I don't see the 'pat the dog' racket face position in your forehand. ?

    What pro videos are you using for references?
     
  15. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    Arrrg. Perhaps hypnosis would help :(
     
  16. toly

    toly Hall of Fame

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    Post deleted, wrong thread.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  17. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    Thanks toly! Will work on it. Perhaps it was my way of making up for my height and trying to make contact as high as possible...?

    Wrong thread though ;)

    How do you make those images? :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013
  18. toly

    toly Hall of Fame

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    I need link to high speed video of your FH with PTD.
     
  19. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  20. toly

    toly Hall of Fame

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    Where is your PTD? I don’t see it.

    [​IMG]

    The body is shown at contact and you tilt it too much to the right. It looks like your body blocks the arm forward swing path.

    Nadal has very good PTD.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  21. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    Awesome! I've been tolyfied! Thanks for the work, it's certainly food for thought! :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  22. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    I thought you were gonna add it :twisted:
     
  23. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    On the take back on the slow mo forehand, where is the added angle of the shoulder turn relative to the hip turn? That angle stretches strong core muscles for SSC use in the forward swing.

    Djokovic uses a lot of that shoulder-hip turn angle difference. For many it could stress the back.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  24. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    Those drive volley forehands in the latter half were being tossed from my left, so I found it a bit awkward to fully turn right. I guess I ended up more open than I normally am. So I guess they're not a really good sample for the ground stroke. For the ones tossed from the right, I guess I was focusing on a short backswing and a loose grip.

    But yeah sometimes I do get lazy with that. Thanks :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  25. toly

    toly Hall of Fame

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    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
  26. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Nice vids Greg. Thumbs up!
    Especially like that double window vid.
     
  27. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    Hey all! Back after 6 weeks rest. Too some time off after the tournament to get rid of all the aches and pains that accumulated. Hit the court today without any braces or wraps for the first time in quite a while!

    Anyway, shaking the rust off again...not too bad...gotta get my feet beneath me.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FCSawoz3EI
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2013
  28. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    You look pretty darned good there. Really nice hitting by both you and your hitting partner. Excellent video perspective and quality. Enjoyed watching. Thanks.
     
  29. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    Pretty nice hitting. What level would you say you play at?
     
  30. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    Well back in 2001 I stayed in Hawaii for a year, and was rated a 3.5. Played in a 3.5 doubles league. That's the only objective measurement I have...
     
  31. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    Time for some maintenance work on the forehand. The 2 singles tournaments and one doubles tournament over the past 3 months took time away from drills, and I noticed my form slowly breaking down. Time to focus on that again. Easy feeds for now, focusing on good contact, PTD, and balance/weight transfer. Will work on movement when I'm back in the groove.

    Lots of footage on a nice sunny day (HOT), so the slow motion shots are nice and clear.

    Side view:
    http://youtu.be/7k59MghDZlg

    Side view slowmo:
    http://youtu.be/vzFqSYvesMQ

    Rear view:
    CC
    http://youtu.be/YYzuB5dkRk0
    IO
    http://youtu.be/J0nEneo4WwU
    alternating
    http://youtu.be/ogVTbbtnQq4


    Rear view slowmo:
    CC
    http://youtu.be/PgPvz1uvQVI
    IO
    http://youtu.be/zHCfaUGprxA
    http://youtu.be/Fr_ggQ3zEhE

    Front quarter view:
    http://youtu.be/F6_dTvybREU

    Front quarter view slowmo:
    http://youtu.be/ji6kly40pS0

    Some still sequences (random, I didn't cherry pick em)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2013
  32. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    great thread and great improvement.

    I think now I finally understand this "racket and hand stays in front of the body" thing.

    I have always said that this is not important but I have tried it and it feels very good.

    keep the wirst neutral and the arm and racket still pointing a little to the right and then instead of laying the wrist back at the end of the backswing let the acceleration of the hips and arm cause the racket to lag.
     
  33. 7zero

    7zero Rookie

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  34. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    Thanks guys. Am fairly happy with the last session, but it is just a basket of sitter balls being fed right at me. Rebuilding confidence in the stroke before I go back to movement drills. That's when all the cr@p comes out :D

    One good thing (I think) that I noticed was that my right pectorals and to a lesser extent, biceps were a bit sore the next day. Hopefully that means I'm using them correctly...
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  35. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    Comparison with some random guy, let's call him... "Greg D"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d0vw3MdrdQ

    Looks like I have to get the right elbow higher on the takeback. And I'm also a bit hunched over whereas his torso is nice and straight.
    [​IMG]

    These 2 aren't in sync...but I think a higher elbow (by rotating the hitting structure) may give a better PTD....
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Contact is nicely in front now...
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2013
  36. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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  37. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Nice work in the latest vids Greg. Nice hitting form and ball trajectory, pace, and placement; and what I really like is that, as opposed to most of my shots, most of your shots land in the court. :)
     
  38. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    Thanks Tom! But you're the one who's match tough by now :)
     
  39. toly

    toly Hall of Fame

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    We want PTD to create significant topspin (straight arm FH).
    The higher the ball the less topspin we want. You hit flatter FH because of the high ball. Greg D hits low ball, so he must apply more topspin and should use PTD.
     
  40. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    The elbow height is not the culprit for lack of ptd.

    You need to fly me to the philippines so I can fix you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2013
  41. ProgressoR

    ProgressoR Hall of Fame

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    Guys, what is PTD please?
     
  42. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    "Pat the dog". It's a figurative expression for the position prior to the stroke in what is called the "modern forehand" where the stringbed is parallel to the ground before the forward swing. Examples below.
    Hewitt:
    http://images.brisbanetimes.com.au/2010/05/07/1425406/420_lleyton_hewitt-420x0.jpg
    Federer:
    http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/images/stories/large/2009/06/01/fedone88093775.jpg
    Nadal:
    http://tenniscountry.com/Photos/nadalforehandprep.jpg
     
  43. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    Come on down! At this rate I'll make my way over to you first :)

    Where's the video you were gonna make for me? ;)
     
  44. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    It's me preopening my hips with my footwork, isn't it?
     
  45. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    Well Chas Tennis pointed me out to some Kinovea instructional videos, so I figured out how to measure speed! :twisted:

    This is my first attempt at measuring RHS vs hand speed. I know the angle isn't optimum for measuring the speed, but it does give a good estimate! Also marked the swing path. Nice fodder for discussion...

    http://youtu.be/y9EXHWSa16Y

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2013
  46. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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  47. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    That Kinovea stuff is really cool. I must learn how to use it one of these days.
     
  48. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Well, I'm definitely match something or other by now. Not sure I'd call it match tough though. Maybe match saturated. haha :)
     
  49. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    The side view seems to be better for measuring RHS vs hand speed:

    http://youtu.be/17N3t-c0kVc

    I changed units to mph, I guess that's easier for you guys in the US. *coughgometricalreadycough*

    The stills are still in meters/second, but you can see how the RHS builds up from the bottom of the swing to contact, and slows down after.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2013
  50. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2013

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