First stringing machine

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by LiquidWhip, Sep 11, 2013.

  1. LiquidWhip

    LiquidWhip Rookie

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    I’m looking to invest in my first stringing machine. I’m not a huge string breaker but strings tend to last me on average every 4 weeks before snapping. I also like to experiment with strings so thought I’d take the plunge and look to learn to string and buy my own machine.

    Key considerations:

    Looking to spend around approximately £500
    I have no stringing experience (but am looking to get some tuition)
    I live in the London, UK so choice is pretty limited.
    Living in London means space is pretty limited in my flat so the smaller and easier to store the better.

    Upon initial research, I’m leaning towards this:

    http://www.************.co.uk/products/Pro-Stringer-Portable-Electronic-Stringing-Machine.html

    Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
     
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  2. LiquidWhip

    LiquidWhip Rookie

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    Hmm, link doesn't seem to work when I post it.

    However it’s the Pro Stringer Portable Electronic Stringing Machine from the racquet depot website I’ve been looking at .
     
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  3. oest10

    oest10 Semi-Pro

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    Hi mate,

    First things first: welcome to stringing haha!

    I am guessing you are talking about this one? http://www.pro-stringer.com/

    If so, and seeing that you have 500 pounds to spend, I would try to look at machines with fixed clamps and 6pt mounting. I personally use the Pro's Pro TX-700. Pro's Pro is a relatively cheap brand but I feel that the build quality of this machine is great and I really enjoy useing it. Its a 6pt mounting, fixed clamp, electronic Constant Pull machine for about 450 pounds. If I remember correctly you can find that on Racquet Depot too!

    Have a look around and wait for some other reccomendations too but I have enjoyed this one a lot!

    Good luck!
     
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  4. eelhc

    eelhc Hall of Fame

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    For £500 (roughly 600 Euro), you might want to look at the Stringway Machines built in the Netherlands.

    http://www.stringway-nl.com/en/index.html

    I would get the ML100 with the flying clamps to start. If you can stretch your budget add the Concorde system which is a not so easy/inexpensive an upgrade at a later date as it requires a whole new base... (same with the sensing Jaws on the ML100... requires a new tensioning mechanism).

    Upgrading to fixed clamps is easy... (some epoxy and a few bolts).

    I watched the pro stringer demo and it looks like a complete disaster... (wobbly turntable, kluge tensioning mechanism... )
     
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  5. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    At almost US$800 I would certainly consider something else. I don't even think it is constant pull.

    http://youtu.be/Hc-w8LK_fLs
     
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  6. LiquidWhip

    LiquidWhip Rookie

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    Thanks for the feedback so far.

    I'm really looking forward to learning about stringing and having a go at it.

    And yes, that's the machine I was looking at. I did consider the TX-700 but have read some rather negative reviews but it sounds like you're getting on with it just fine. Can I ask how long you've had it for and whether you've had any problems with it?

    The Stringway machine does look a lot sturdier but seems like quite a lot of money for a dropweight machine. Do you own one? If so, how does the Concorde system work?

    I guess one of the main reasons for looking at this machine was it's size. If I had the space, I would without a doubt be looking at a table top or a free standing machine but I'm not sure my girlfriend would appreciate a stringing maching cluttering up the flat/apartment.

    I'm open to further suggestions though...
     
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  7. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Gamma X2, Klippermate, Eagnas, Pro's Pro, etc ...
     
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  8. eelhc

    eelhc Hall of Fame

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    First off... if you ever intend to upgrade the Girlfriend to a Wife... better to provide full disclosure of your habits/insanity up front... :smile::smile::smile:

    I do own a Stringway at present but have my eyes on a Neos 1500 (at some point). I tend to buy my stuff used and go through a constant cycle of upgrades.

    The Stringway is an Automatic dropweight (not a ratchet). It's at least as fast as a crank machine. Just lift the weight, insert the string in the jaw and gently lower. That's it... you do not have to go to horizontal.

    The first part of this video demonstrates the automatic dropweight.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjXN5ep3QYE

    Additional benefits of the SW are constant pull (although there is debate between lockout vs constant pull) and no need to calibrate unless gravity changes.

    The machine breaks down easy for storage. The boom for the weight comes off and the turntable lifts out easily. Broken down, one should be able to get it in a box a little bigger than the ones printer paper comes in.

    The concorde system allows for ~360 turntable rotation and is nice for stringing the mains. Not necessary but something that can't be easily added on post purchase. If I was going to buy new, I would definitely get it... I have both the fixed and floating clamps and I find myself using the floating clamps most of the time. Only when I do 1 piece or ATW patterns I use the fixed clamps (can be done with the floating clamps but I fine these patterns easier with the fixed clamps). The fixed clamps are an easy bolt on upgrade.

    Don't know machine/service availability in the UK but in the sub ~$1500 price range, these are the preferred machines (quality, service...).

    Gamma
    Stringway
    Prince

    I had an Eagnas, Gamma and an Alpha before my Stringway... All 3 machines performed well. Gamma and Alpha/Stringway (same US distributor) service is top notch. I've not had to deal with Eagnas CS but there are horror stories. Stringway support in the EU is supposedly excellent.
     
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  9. LiquidWhip

    LiquidWhip Rookie

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    Thanks this is a really helpful post and has definitely got me leaning towards the Stringway now as customer service hadn't been something I had thought about much. Being based in the UK, the fact that Stringway support in the EU is supposedly excellent is a huge advantage.
     
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  10. oest10

    oest10 Semi-Pro

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  11. eelhc

    eelhc Hall of Fame

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    There is some variation of the tension depending on the angle of the arm (arm will drop less for a stiffer string obviously) but within the acceptable tolerance variation.. There was a post on this but I can't seem to locate it now.
     
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  12. oest10

    oest10 Semi-Pro

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    Personally I believe any difference in tension is unacceptable.. I've had a dropweight before I went to CP, and at one time I was like what the hell just string this one real quick. Wasn't too careful with the horizontal levels (though not far off, max 3-4 cm I guess) and the stringbed felt nothing like my normal setup. Or are we talking 0.05 of a kilo here?
     
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  13. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=170414
     
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  14. eelhc

    eelhc Hall of Fame

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    Ooo... I hadn't seen that thread before... Interesting. The thread I'm looking for was specific to the Stringway Machines and tension variability with Angle A. Someone had measured with a calibrator and noted some differences in the tension (though not significant).


    [​IMG]
     
    #14
  15. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    Stringway is great. Stringway is study will last forever, is constant pull with correct tension at any angle of the tension arm and depends only on gravity and heavy metal to work. My machine is 7 year old stringway table top and it is as good as new. mounting system is not the fastest but not too inconvenient. But, the string job is very good with the constant pull at any angle feature. Also, it is easy to use with double action fix clamps.

    I think anything would be better than that little electronic piece of poo that you are looking at. I would only consider that pro stringer gadget if my only concern was traveling and portability.

    Any quality drop weight or crank or electronic with a study base and fixed clamps is likely to be much better and a heck of a lot easier to learn and use than the little gizmo from pro stringer.
     
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  16. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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  17. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Every pull you make has a bend especially when you are pulling crosses woven through mains. Where ever there is a bend there is friction. Different string have different surface friction. Where ever there is friction there is tension loss. As the friction changes so does the tension.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
    #17
  18. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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  19. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    Piggybacking on this I have a Klipper and it's reliable. What is the cheapest good dropweight with fixed clamps?

    Thanks!
     
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  20. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    It is possible. The tension you use on the tensioner to pull a string is not always the same tension pulled on the string because of friction. You very well could have different dynamic tension on different strings pulled at the same tension. Too many variables like head size, number of mains, number of crosses, gauge, friction coefficient, etc...
     
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  21. Joonas

    Joonas Semi-Pro

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    Regarding Stringway. The physics seem not to lie :))). I tested the tension on free string (no friction) with a scale. Tension was consistent regardless of the lever angle.

    Concorde is good way to overcome the friction in the first mains when you would have to run string over or under the frame to the tension head. I don't have concorde but wish I did.

    On Stringway machines turntable locks in ten positions. When stringing crosses on Prince speedports some times angle comes quite tight. So there is extra friction. I would appreciate my turntable to lock in any position to overcome this. I know that there are other ways to overcome this but that is another story.

    For the money I think that Stringway machines make it quite easy to achieve constant and high DTs (for the nominal tension used). And like said earlier there are hardly any points where the machine itself could fail.

    If I would to choose another machine it would be:
    -2-3 times more expensive
    -constant pull with easier mount system
    -360 turntable
    -turntable lockable to any position
    -knot button
    -proper fixed clamp system.
    Also the Stringway stand is not the most stable. When you pull tensions on higher scale the balance tend to be on the edge.
     
    #21
  22. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    Irvin, I agree in that the type of string could impact the final tension on that string. But, the issue was does a stringway tension different types of strings different. The point I am trying to make is the machine pulls 55 lbs no matter what type of string or main vs cross you are pulling. The issues you describe would be true of any tensioning system but the tensioning system would be pulling the correct tension. Someone above said the Stringway tensions different types of strings differently. I was just trying to make the point that the tension differences are due to the type of string and had nothing to do with the tensioning system on the stringway.
     
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  23. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Yes and you are both correct.
     
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  24. Joonas

    Joonas Semi-Pro

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    Key here is that the machine applies certain pulling power to the string. If machine is good this force is constant.

    Outcome in terms of tension depends on stringtype, friction etc.

    If your machine is constant then good. The rest is technic and skill of stringer.
     
    #24
  25. OccasionalStringer

    OccasionalStringer New User

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    Question to Joonas:

    You mention in post 21: "I tested the tension on free string (no friction) with a scale. Tension was consistent regardless of the lever angle."

    Could you be more specific, how wide range of angles did you test and what was the tension variation in lb/kg ?
     
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  26. Joonas

    Joonas Semi-Pro

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    I tested quite unscientific. Overall I just wanted to see whether or not there is a difference due to the lever angle.

    I tried position more or less parallel to the floor. I tried "very much" down - more down than I ever gone when actually stringing. Then I tried very upright position. Scale readings were differing merely tens of grams if even that. I didn't write down exactly because I was completely happy with results.

    And again, there should not be any variation as the geometry stays unchanged during the course.

    More important are the friction and pulling angle (not lever) and also clamping consistency.

    BTW, Stringway racket mounting system wont allow clamping against the frame/grommet in first 4-5 mains. So there will always be slack between frame, grommet and next pull. Perhaps not most important thing considering the finaö DT. But in search of perfection it is a flaw.
     
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