Flat serves, Kick serves VIDEO included!

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Failed, Dec 6, 2011.

  1. Failed

    Failed Semi-Pro

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    #1
  2. fruitytennis1

    fruitytennis1 Professional

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    Nice 1st and 2nd serves!
    Quick ? where do you usually aim your first serves?
     
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  3. tennis_pr0

    tennis_pr0 Semi-Pro

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    Nice serve, especially the kick.
     
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  4. tennis_pr0

    tennis_pr0 Semi-Pro

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    I watched one of your other videos. How old are you if you don't mind me asking? Also, do you have a ranking? You are a solid player, nice strokes, nice serve.
     
    #4
  5. Agassi-Fan

    Agassi-Fan Rookie

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    Serves looks good. Looks like you get some nice angle on the wide serve. Keep it up.
     
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  6. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    We knew you could play tennis.
    You would get more power by lowering the hitting elbow at trophy, which lowers the hitting hand and racket, and forces you to adopt an archer's bow, throwing the left hip into the court, so when you start to swing forwards, you are facing UPwards.
    Like the progression wider and wider. Shows you are thinking.
    And if you want, you can always adopt the "high elbow, high hand" finish, where AFTER you hit the ball, your hand AND your elbow is higher than your head, while your rackethead has followthru'ed pointing straight down at the ground right at your front toe.
    Neither is necessary for 4.0 or lower players, but we know you are better.
     
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  7. RyKnocks

    RyKnocks Semi-Pro

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    Wow, have you only been playing tennis for a year? Do you receive any instruction or self taught? Also, what string setup are you using? I've only been playing since June/July and I hope to have a serve like that by this coming summer.
     
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  8. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    er...
    Failed is a solid 4.5+ player who used to post quite a bit, but fell off the map in recent times.
     
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  9. Manus Domini

    Manus Domini Hall of Fame

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    Your username is such a misnomer...

    Awesome serve!
     
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  10. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    Nice serve overall. I'm not sold on the idea of taking a step to the right with your left foot during your motion though. It can affect the serve a lot, and it looks almost like a fix to historic ball-toss issues.

    What LeeD said above is good advice.
     
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  11. Failed

    Failed Semi-Pro

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    I am 20 and I do have a ranking. Thanks for the input :) Started in 2008 so I've been playing for a little over 3 years minus the service time in the army.
     
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  12. Failed

    Failed Semi-Pro

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    Unfortunately it has been more than a year. Hopefully that did not dissappoint you :p Especially on the kick serve it takes way more repetition to get a kick serve you can use as a weapon. I am using Signum Pro tornado 1.29mm and 24/25kg.
     
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  13. Failed

    Failed Semi-Pro

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    Yeah, when I looked at the older serves I noticed that the right hand was lower and the trophy pose was better. Things just progressed on their own and took a new form. Going to start fixing that after seeing this video :) Thanks for the input Leed as always.
     
    #13
  14. Chyeaah

    Chyeaah Professional

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    What Level are you? your serves are friggin sick... They kick so high.
     
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  15. Failed

    Failed Semi-Pro

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    I don't have a NTPR ranking, I am B-class player in my Nation. (Hopefully A-class in a year or so)
     
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  16. bertrevert

    bertrevert Hall of Fame

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    Good serving.

    Do you do tins, or cones, you know, targets in the serve box?

    I know it's old-fashioned but it may help.

    You see I think you need more margin for error. Pretty nice to serve indoors under good lights isn't it? Mostly tennis is not played in such. I guess you are in Euro perhaps. You're serve won't be going in unless you reckon you can paint lines all day.

    Anyway what I mean is also that ad-court kicker from the other end is not going in.

    I know you are prob thinking about technique here. On that I'll say - while I think you toss and shape up to the ball to hit nice sliders, I don't see you going down the T very well. So as receiver basically i know where the ball's going.

    Now back to my first point, doing targets will get you inside the lines and thinking about the metre or so of critical line at both back edges of the service box.

    ps. I am no coach so you can take it or leave it...
     
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  17. Failed

    Failed Semi-Pro

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    I can take risks with my first serve because I know that the second one will be going in and it will give most of my opponents hard time anyway. I like hitting my flat serve down the T more than I like hitting it out wide. I simply hit it out wide so that you can see where the ball goes. If I went down the T the ball would be behind me, which would make analyzing the bounce harder. I can place my kicker pretty much anywhere I want in the ad-box. Hitting it out wide in the deuce box would be shooting myself in the foot so I haven't used that serve much in tournaments(which has lead into me taking a beating from lefties with good forehand return of serve)
     
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  18. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Good of you to serve your country. And get out early too.
    After my 13 months stint in the USArmy, I found my body had gotten a lot stronger, but a LOT LOT stiffer. Being a surfer, it was terrible trying to surf in small wave competitions again, and I ended up being a big wave specialist because I could never regain my flexy flyer style.
    Still, I'm sure it will come back to you. Nice game.
     
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  19. Failed

    Failed Semi-Pro

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    :) Yeah, taking nice hikes and sleeping in -50 Fahrenheit in 6'5 feet snow can be quite exotic. I was a guerilla.
     
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  20. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I'm in the US. Our "nice hikes" were 25 miler's starting at dawn, with a 60lbs pack, standard issue rifle, thru NCarolina mosquito infested thickets, finishing around 5PM, carrying ALL our supplies, including the guys who couldn't make it, but didn't require hospitalization.
    Once a week, a squad got to carry a 400 lbs log thru the thickets for 10 miles, but at least we didn't lug our packs or rifles. Easy to carry, really hard to coordinate.
     
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  21. spacediver

    spacediver Hall of Fame

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    the one thing that really stands out to me is how loose and fluid your racquet arm is. How did you you develop that - did it come naturally to you or did you do some drills or something for it?
     
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  22. sunof tennis

    sunof tennis Professional

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    That's good. I didn't see any first serves down the T in your video and wanted to make sure you had that serve in your arsenal. Overall, good first and second serve. On your kick serve remember to get good racquet head acceleration. I think about acutally accelerating more on the second serve/kick serve than on the first serve.
     
    #22
  23. jdubbs

    jdubbs Hall of Fame

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    Did you take vids of serves that actually went in?
     
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  24. Torres

    Torres Banned

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  25. ZeroSkid

    ZeroSkid Banned

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    Man you have such an unnatural service motion, but your serves are still very good
     
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  26. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I'd think, at 6'4" and long limbed, it'd be super easy to kick a serve over 6'6" high at the baseline almost every try.
    Ever watch Santoro's matches? Everyone kicks it over his head, but he just leans in and returns it no problem. That's the opposite effect, as you know.
    I play with (mostly doubles, I'm not nearly their level) a couple of 6' guys who can twist it well over my head, and I"m 5'11".
    Just need a relatively warm day, some good 5.5+ players, and the need to show off.
     
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  27. Failed

    Failed Semi-Pro

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFMpD0ZmLoI This is from year ago, I used to have a more of a "normal" serve before :D Things kinda progressed on their own.
     
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  28. bertrevert

    bertrevert Hall of Fame

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    Yeah well we all do that, second serve has to be rock solid otherwise yeah I agree you cannot really let loose on the first otherwise.

    Hey I found this for inspiration, see 2.01 onwards
    http://www.youtube.com/user/offiicalmurrayvideo?blend=22&ob=5#p/u/9/dd-Vfa7LmVQ
    and
    http://www.youtube.com/user/offiicalmurrayvideo?blend=22&ob=5#p/u/20/ISV-Y7AhFvM

    I think I'd like to see you lean left hip more into court during the load up, and get some mass behind the ball... they look light, predictable and arrive in the wheelhouse.

    ps. I did not mean kickers down the T, I meant you angle your body well for sliding serves but I want to see you also bang them down the middle so the ball still rising is slightly moving away from a RH player's backhand. Ensure your technique allows the 3 or 4 basic first serves. My opinion is that I'd want to see you stand more 45 degrees to the baseline, rather than so parallel, and closer left into the centre of the deuce. Your serve has improved from a year ago!
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2011
    #28
  29. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    You're getting good pace on the serve, but I think your energy is directed too much forward. Like Lee said, get your chest angled upwards and direct your energy up to the ball.
     
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  30. Nellie

    Nellie Hall of Fame

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    Hmm - I really liked those serves. What happened to that motion?!
     
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  31. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    OP appeared to have served some time in the service, and like I did, LOST tons of flexibility while gaining endurance and strength.
    Just the archer's bow would have him hitting upwards at the ball, low hitting shoulder.
     
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  32. Sleepstream

    Sleepstream Semi-Pro

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    Finland, hmm.

    Which courts are those?
     
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  33. Magic of tennis

    Magic of tennis Semi-Pro

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    That was very solid serve. I hope I can do that soon
     
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  34. Failed

    Failed Semi-Pro

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    You mean what type of court or what courts actually? :p
     
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  35. Sleepstream

    Sleepstream Semi-Pro

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    Which courts, but that is kind of creepy to ask.

    How are the indoor courts there (besides expensive)?
     
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  36. Failed

    Failed Semi-Pro

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    Hukka courts in Oulu, I like the courts, there could be more courts though.
     
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  37. Sleepstream

    Sleepstream Semi-Pro

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    Ah, you live in the middle of the country.

    But I agree about not enough courts. I don't think Helsinki has enough, but tennis players always want more courts.
     
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  38. spacediver

    spacediver Hall of Fame

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    Failed, not sure if you saw my post on page 1:

     
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  39. Failed

    Failed Semi-Pro

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    Sorry for not answering that, it has come to me somewhat naturally. It is all about not squeezing the handle not too tight and keeping your arm relaxed during the motion. I think that my hand is the loose part of my part during the serve and the lower body gets the hand moving.
     
    #39
  40. spacediver

    spacediver Hall of Fame

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    aye, this is exactly what ppl should strive for, but it's notoriously rare to see it in the recreational scene, which points to the fact that most people don't find it natural.

    Feels so wonderful when you get it down though - like you're slinging a catapult.
     
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  41. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    Your older serve was better in some ways - primarily because it had less superfluous movements. Sure the newer one might be as or more effective in practice - but the risk is a windy day or when you're really tired in a 3rd set or playing a good returner that it'll be less reliable. That's when the additional movements often start to become an issue and why go-to service motions like Federer's, Ivanisevic's etc are generally un-cluttered.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2011
    #41
  42. gregor.b

    gregor.b Professional

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    Agree. The older motion was less glitchy. Simpler is better. Small refinements are the best way to improve.
     
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  43. willroc7

    willroc7 Rookie

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    Just want to say you have a very nice serve. I wish mine was half as good. The only things I can offer that might not be completely ideal are your elbow position in trophy pose and your toss arm movement. You could probably get your hitting elbow a little lower and closer into the body. Second, and it's hard to tell if you're already doing this in the video, but if you actively pull your toss arm down and into the body, after it's straight up in the air, to initiate your swing, it will help get your shoulder turn started.
     
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  44. djoko4thewin

    djoko4thewin Professional

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    Very nice serves, like to see people doing this more. All i can say is that your old service motion looks perfect but now it's end product is good but as had been said has kinks and more chance of going wrong IMO.
     
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