For those who switched to the 2012 PD, are you still using?

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by keithfival, Feb 24, 2013.

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2012 PD users, are you still using?

  1. Yes, still happy with performance and comfort.

    12 vote(s)
    48.0%
  2. Yes, still happy with performance despite some comfort issues

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. No, liked the stick but had to give it up due to comfort issues

    7 vote(s)
    28.0%
  4. No, wasn't satisfied with the performance and moved on.

    6 vote(s)
    24.0%
  1. keithfival

    keithfival Professional

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    Curious how many who switched to the 2012 PD when it was all the rage are still happily using and how many have moved on due to either comfort or performance? Take the poll plz!
     
    #1
  2. NE1for10is?

    NE1for10is? Semi-Pro

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    And if you moved on because of comfort issues, what did you move on to...?
     
    #2
  3. Arsnlrob

    Arsnlrob Rookie

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    I went from the previous PD to the 2012 PDR+ when they first came out a year ago and had immediate elbow issues. Thinking this was from the + length I then switched to the regular PDR. Same elbow problems. Then I went to the Head Speed and over the course of the year my elbow got eventually better (never took a solid couple months off...just did FlexBar exercises and went to a hybrid setup). Now I'm onto the Wilson Steam 99s and I'm not looking back.
     
    #3
  4. ChicagoJack

    ChicagoJack Hall of Fame

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    Nope, not anymore. I used the 2012 PD+ last summer for a few months. It brought on my first case of TE in my 30+ years on the court. The pain I had in my arm was so bad, at one point, I had trouble operating a pair of tongs at the salad bar after a match. This was using the same exact Gut Mains, Poly Cross Hybrid set up I'd been using in my HEAD racquets.

    I went shopping for comfort frames and stumbled into a racquet that provides me with waaaay more control, more power, and is much more comfortable just as frosting on the cake. I'm now completely rehabbed. But my wallet is about $2,500 lighter from medical bills and therapy (flexbar, yoga, acupuncture, acupressure, chiropractic care) There was about 3 months there when life was not fun at all, but the Pro One has not only elevated my game to new heights, it's help me heal as well.

    -Jack
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
    #4
  5. r5d3

    r5d3 New User

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    Volkl V1 MP. PD worked great while it (my arm) lasted, though.
     
    #5
  6. keithfival

    keithfival Professional

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    Wow. Thanks for the input. Did you happen to try the Formula 100 as well? I'm looking for something that does the job at a little lighter weight than the Pro One.
     
    #6
  7. GrandSlam45

    GrandSlam45 Rookie

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    Did I swtich to the PD2012? Yes
    Am I still using it? Hell No!

    After only 2 weeks of playing, it completely ruined my arm. Even after lowering string tension and experimenting with "soft" strings, etc. It seems like this racquet was designed for one purpose... to destroy arms, and take no prisoners.

    I switched to the ProKennex Ki5 315 and will never look back.
     
    #7
  8. Cengusiento

    Cengusiento Rookie

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    I've experimented just the opposite, no elbow or anything else with pain, for me the racket absorbs the ball impact pretty well, too much in fact. The main problem with the racket is actually the lack of feel due to its limited vibrations passed to the arm.
     
    #8
  9. keithfival

    keithfival Professional

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    I was feeling that a little. At first hit I loved the muted/solid feel but after a while wondered if it would be a tad unsatisfying, a little disconnected.
     
    #9
  10. ChicagoJack

    ChicagoJack Hall of Fame

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    Hi Keith :)

    I've not tried the Formula 100, even with the arm friendly solid core, that's still way too stiff for me. Your phrase "gets the job done at a lighter weight" implies that there is a little "free power" to be had with a very stiff frame. There is, but this additional power is much smaller than you might imagine. It is a common misunderstanding that frame stiffness is a big factor in racquet power, stiffness is way over rated in terms of how much additional MPHs you will get. SW is the big factor. It is such a big factor, that almost nothing else matters by comparison. The reality is you will get an additional 1 MPH at the most with a jump from say a 62ra frame to a 72ra frame of identical swingweights. But that is only for impacts in the top 10-20% of the hoop. You might get another 2 mph if you hit just below the tip. When you hit anywhere near the sweet spot, a flexible frame is just as powerful as a stiff frame. I don't want to derail the scope of your thread, but if you are interested in the fundamentals of ACOR / Racquet Power, I've recently posted in the link provided below, see my posts 12, 13, 24, and 119.
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=455102

    -Jack
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
    #10
  11. ChicagoJack

    ChicagoJack Hall of Fame

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    Regarding Impact Feel: Our language used to describe impact feel is not very precise at times. Impact shock, is the initial jolt you feel in your hand when you hit at the top of the stringbed, and the racquet rotates around the center of mass in the throat. When you hit near the center, both shock and vibration is minimized. Vibration is what you feel, long after the ball has left the string bed. Vibration is motion. Stiffer frames bend less, so the distance of the motion traveled is less. But stiff frames are vibrating faster. In the lab this is noted as a higher frequency. This explains why, with a stiff frame you might feel something more like a "buzz" and with a very flexible wood racquet you will feel something like a "wobble" or "recoil" when you hit near the tip. Static stiffness, which is expressed as 72ra, 62ra etc, is measured by clamping a racquet into an RDC machine. It says something about how a racquet bends. However, vibration frequencies are a very good indicator of dynamic stiffness, which is the study of the motion and feel of a racquet during ball impacts.

    Nutshell: The stiffer and lighter the racquet, the greater (faster) the frequency, shorter the period, and less the amplitude. And the softer and heavier the racquet, the slower the frequency, the longer the period and the greater the amplitude. Every other combination falls somewhere in between. The vibration frequencies of most commercially available frames can be found here:

    http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/cgi-bin/vibfrequency.cgi

    -Jack
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
    #11
  12. keithfival

    keithfival Professional

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    Hi Jack! I guess what I mean by "job done" is a solid/stable feel, spin, power and a continuity of the control/power ratio for all types shots - from hard groundies to blocked returns to mid court volleys. I can get this continuity from many frames at ~340g but these days I have kind of a chronic ache in my neck that gets worse with 340g. Something around 323g feels noticeably better, and I can really go after my groundies at that weight but my defensive shots, slice, second serve, those type of shots get much lighter.

    What intrigued me about my brief hits with the 2012 PD was that it seemed to have that solidity and continuity at a lighter weight- solid pop and depth on blocks, slices, kick serve, but also tons of controlled power on groundies and a solid feel across the board. In essence, it seemed to simulate the way a 340g frame plays at 320g, which is exactly what I'm after.

    I will definitely proceed with caution and abort at the first sign of unusual soreness/pain though.
     
    #12
  13. keithfival

    keithfival Professional

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    And the frequency of the vibe is a main factor in comfort?
     
    #13
  14. MindoverMatter

    MindoverMatter Professional

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    I confess! I bought the racquet after a (too) brief demo period where I liked it, and not too long after I felt it in my arm badly. Made the switch to Angell and have loved the frames I customized.
     
    #14
  15. ChicagoJack

    ChicagoJack Hall of Fame

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    Hi Keith -

    Yes, exactamundo. What will follow is a gross over simplification of a complex topic, but I never let that stop me (lol). Light and stiff frames have higher vibration frequencies, shorter dwell times, which results in more impact shock transmitted to the arm. Heavier and more flexible frames have lower vibration frequencies, and a longer dwell time, which absorbs more of the initial impact shock off the racquet to ball collision. The vibration phase happens after the initial impact shock, and long after the ball has left the string bed.

    Most players will interpret the reduced impact shock and longer dwell time as being more comfortable. However, feel is very subjective by nature. Cengusieto for example is likely interpreting the shorter dwell time, and faster vibration as less vibration. In a way, that's a completely accurate perception. But reducing impact shock is whole nuther can of worms. IMO having some kind of real vibration dampening technology is a good thing for arm comfort, but reducing impact shock is likely more important in the long run. With just a few exceptions, reduced shock is mostly related to low static flex, low vibration frequencies, and higher mass.

    You can find a much more detailed and complete explanation in the link provided below.
    http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/vibration_explanation.php

    -Jack
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
    #15
  16. Francis27

    Francis27 Semi-Pro

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    Canada Ontario
    I use a PD2012 and the stiffness doesnt bother me as much. I use a full bed of RPM Team (poly) at @52 lbs and it is doing well!
     
    #16
  17. keithfival

    keithfival Professional

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    It's amazing how people's exp varies. The guy whose PD I just hit with had recently switched to the Exo3 Tour and loved it until he got TE, which he never had before. So he demo'd some frames and switched to the PD and his TE went away.

    I have sometimes experienced that a powerful stiff racket that "rejects" the ball quickly can be more comfortable in a certain way than flexier frames where I feel the ball "pulling" on the frame. I'm talking about shoulder/neck, never had arm issues.

    Anyway, I have one coming on thursday and will carefully test it out. I finally have my KBlade Team dialed in, which is like 57 stiffness and 335g, so it will be a straight up duel between heavyish and flexy vs. light and stiff!
     
    #17
  18. keithfival

    keithfival Professional

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    The classic or Organix?
     
    #18
  19. Macedo

    Macedo Rookie

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    I'm playing for two weeks with the PD. I can say that is a wonderfull racquet...except when I'm serving, in the final of a match my elbow looks like a "ball" (swollen)
     
    #19
  20. keithfival

    keithfival Professional

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    Well, I picked one up strung with full gut but pretty tight (a lot tighter than I'm used to). I have a super sensitive neck thing that gets bothered by lots of frames/strings so it was something of a doomed mission but I was curious to see if full gut helped any.

    Played two sets with my stick (57 flex, low tension hybrid, about as comfy as you can get). Pulled out the PD for a third. One glorious set. Hardly missed a ball but with a couple games the thing in my neck was hurting. Couldn't resist finishing the set but payed for it the next day, neck was on fire.

    Today I figured before selling I'd try weighting it up and putting one of this big long dampers on to see if it helped. Same thing, played 2 sets with my stick to get a feel for how my neck felt, started the third with the PD, felt it within 2 points. Called it during the second game.

    Really kind of a shame because I just loved playing with it, just so pinpoint, powerful and easy to use, like playing Wii tennis. Almost curious enough to string it at 30lbs with a soft string but can't bring myself to cut out the gut.

    End of experiment.
     
    #20

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