Forehand/backhand video analysis

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Eph, Jun 8, 2009.

  1. Eph

    Eph Professional

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    I've yet to post a video of my strokes so here goes. I hope it provides a necessary change in pace from my posts. :)

    What do you think? My footwork needs help, and my completion of the forehand looks stunted -- isn't fluid. How do I finish up past my shoulder? My backhand looks terrible, but I knew this. Although I think it's just lacking proper footwork...

    Okay, enough random ramblings. Tell me what you think! What can I do to improve? What needs improving? What's OK?

    And would anybody take a stab at where I rank in the NTRP rankings?

    Video 1: http://www.vimeo.com/5062255

    Here are pictures of one of my forehands, to see the progression: http://christhelinuxguy.com/gallery3/index.php/tennis

    NB I was pretty tired so my volleys weren't that great, nor were my overheads. My overhead may be my best shot, and I think I have a much better volley than what you'll see.
     
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  2. masterxfob

    masterxfob Semi-Pro

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    having trouble loading your vid, but from the pictures, you are hitting your forehand late. it also looked like you were too close to the ball as well.
     
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  3. Raid

    Raid Banned

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    plus you are arming the ball way too much
     
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  4. pmacino

    pmacino Semi-Pro

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    I got the video to load.

    I would slow the whole thing down and work your way up. I'm saying this because from what I can see there are a number of things that when addressed will give you much more control and power.

    1. Footwork. Make sure to get yourself in the right position and use your legs and hips to drive the ball. In the video you are using a lot of wrist/shoulder because you are taking the balls high. Step back and allow your self to swing through the ball.
    2. Backswing. On your forehands, you are way late bringing your racquet back.
    3. Lower the head, once you are in position and have your racquet back you can lower that head and set up to swing through the ball. I'm seeing you trying to use way too much arm to try and blast balls back. Power comes from the core, not arms.
    4. Stop jumping while you hit. :)
    5. Follow through all the way on your forehands. Because of you using your wrist, it is stopping your follow through and your racquet is twisting on you. You are hitting high to low you can see this around 1:30 forward.
    6. Split step your approach shots. Stay on the balls of your feet...anticipate and get there lower your stance with your legs to dig out hose drop shots...Also, Your elbow should be below your racquet head. Since you are late, you are just kind of using your racquet to scoop the ball into the net.
    7. Change to a Continental Grip at the net. Footwork, again make sure to stay on the balls of your feet and pivot.
    8. I don't know how to correct this (jump rope maybe), but you are heavy on your feet. With un-needed steps. Work on this and it should help your strokes.
    I've been working so hard on my footwork lately and everything else is falling into place.
     
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  5. NotAtTheNet

    NotAtTheNet Semi-Pro

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    Your elbow and forearm just pitch downward like you're pouring water after contact (which is late, hitting too close to the body if not behind you, contact point should be in front of you).

    Follow through is almost nonexistent. If you follow through so your raquet is by your left ear, that would eliminate 50% of your net balls.

    You're not using that left arm enough, you're touching your stomach instead of reaching out more.

    You're flat on your feet instead of being on the balls of your feet most of the time.

    You don't split step (the only time you do hop up is when you hit the ball)

    Step into your slice

    no comments on the 1 hdbh bc i use a 2hdbh

    no comments on the netgame bc i'm the last person to be talking about net game (though your racquet should up up and out, not down)

    However, i must say compared to some of the previous vids you've posted, your strokes do look better than before.

    Oh and if you plan on playing lots of serve and volleying, clear out the balls off the court... don't want to ruin that new knee you got there...

    edit...
    since you're the educational type, you want to think of your swing as an incomplete elipse. topspin is imparted by brushing the ball. if you hit close too your body, there is no brush, just a pure x force vector. hit in front and you have both x and y components. x is for pace, y is for spin. see this diagram for an explanation.
    http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/upnK2pmgvvfL4FVm1TPXiA?feat=directlink
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2009
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  6. ramseszerg

    ramseszerg Professional

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    Do you have a coach? Because you need one.
     
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  7. NotAtTheNet

    NotAtTheNet Semi-Pro

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    NTRP must be like the weight lifting equivalent of how much can you bench press huh? I think at your level, don't worry about ntrp. You have enough issues right now with stroke mechanics, to be worried about competitive tennis.

    any 3.0 with moderate control will hammer your backhand into submission or just give you really low bouncing forehands. plus you seem really into serve and volley, you need to step up the footwork bc your vollies lack alot of putaway power and with your footwork, you're bound to get passed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2009
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  8. mtommer

    mtommer Hall of Fame

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    There are two ways, that I see, you could go right now. One way would be to bring your left foot up, more in line with your rear foot thereby stepping into the ball. The other way would be to move your left foot forward (not in-line) and take the ball much further in front of you than you are while still transferring weight from the rear foot to the front (left) foot thereby creating a more spin oriented shot.
     
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  9. chico9166

    chico9166 Guest

    Do you now feel better about your game? Ridiculous!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2009
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  10. Wes_Loves_Dunlop

    Wes_Loves_Dunlop Professional

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    to let your arm come across your body for a proper follow through you have to lose some weight in your body area man. Not to be mean, but the reason your follow through on your forehand is stunned is because your arm cant go across your body.
     
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  11. chico9166

    chico9166 Guest

    The arm doesn't move in front ,because the hips are not turning and clearing the front side up to the point of contact.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2009
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  12. Eph

    Eph Professional

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    No coach at the moment. When a good one comes to my area, I'll be sure to hire one.
     
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  13. Raid

    Raid Banned

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    just ignore him mate, youre doing good, keep at it, one step at a time
     
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  14. Eph

    Eph Professional

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    No offense taken - I know I'm fat. I'm working on losing weight, and am doing a great job as of late. Down 5 pounds last month, and down 2 since June 1st. My top weight was ~305, and I'm now around 270.
     
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  15. Eph

    Eph Professional

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    Thanks for this. Can you explain what I need to do, exactly for footwork when coming to the net, and around the net? I can't find much online, so I'll take any little advice I can get...

    NB As I said, the video of my volleys is misleading. Truly. I hit corners all the time, with speed. And all throughout the court...
     
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  16. NotAtTheNet

    NotAtTheNet Semi-Pro

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    Did you see my username... lol.

    Well 1st off with your feet, stay on the balls of your feet. You knees should be bent and your racquet should be up and in front of you (like a ready stance in kendo). You want your racquet out in front so when you goto volley, all you have to do is open your racquet face, turn your and step into the volley. You want to step into the volley, not back. Forehand volley should step in with your left foot, vice versa for the backhand volley.

    Oh and like others said here, continental grip.

    for better information will at fyb is the man... start here... http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/video-tennis-lessons/net-play/
     
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  17. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    Eph,

    More importantly what are the shortcomings thatyou see you have and want to change/improve? Like lack of power, mishits, etc.?

    The sky is the limit but we all know that many of us here will never get to Fed's level :) Meaning we can only work w/ what we have (sounds depressing but it's the truth)
     
    #17
  18. TennisPassion5

    TennisPassion5 Rookie

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    So do you, bud.
     
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  19. TennisPassion5

    TennisPassion5 Rookie

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    Yeh, seriously, ignore the a-hole. He's not good himself and tries to help other players. I second the fact that you're doing fine.
     
    #19
  20. crazypro

    crazypro New User

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    the main thing you need to work on is your forehand.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-D32RwsD_w

    If you see roddick's forehand, at first his body is perpendicular to the net. But when the ball hits his racquet, you'll see that his body is parallel. This shows the turning of body to hit the ball but all you're doing is hitting the ball with your arms, not your body. You've got to get you body into the ball in order to succesfully hit a forehand.

    I hope this helped..
     
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  21. ramseszerg

    ramseszerg Professional

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    What? You guys are taking it the wrong way, I just meant a coach would help alot.
     
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  22. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    Looks like you got alot of advice on the forehand and not so much on the backhand, so I'll give you advice in that area.

    You have no topspin on your backhand, and your definitley going to want that if your going to want a consistent backhand. The reason for your lack of topspin is that your not letting the racket drop below the ball. You are swinging straight THROUGH the ball instead of swinging UP and through the ball, which is the motion that creates topspin. Also make sure to bend your knees in order to get under the ball. See this picture and notice Federer's racket well beneath the ball. He does in order to create topspin. Right now you have a very risky backhand, as it is really hard to hit hard and flat consistently

    [​IMG]

    Also, as soon as you recognize your going to hit a backhand set up as soon as you possibly can. A good 1hbh needs very good footwork, and the more time you have to set up the better. Run to the ball, set your feet, and swing with a high to low motion to create topspin.

    For your slice backhand, I suggest you start hitting through the ball more so it doesn't float/sit up as much. Overall though, lack of topspin on your backhand and the lazy footwork is your problem. I think you told me you've been running, so keep that up! Work on your speed, it will help I guarantee it.

    Good luck though, your improving a good rate so keep it up
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2009
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  23. ramseszerg

    ramseszerg Professional

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    At least I had the courage to post a video. When I posted my first post on this thread, I was talking to Eph, not you or anyone else. And Eph knows I didn't mean it offensively. When we communicate over the internet the tone and body language is lost, and the only reason you take it to mean offense is because your brain is wired that way. A-hole is you.
     
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  24. The_Steak

    The_Steak Rookie

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    Drop the weight, I know you are doing it right now, but it is the main thing holding you back.
     
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  25. Eph

    Eph Professional

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    Really? I thought it would be my footwork...
     
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  26. pmacino

    pmacino Semi-Pro

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    They go hand in hand; improving one will help with the other. The improvement won't be small, it's like paying more than the minimum balance on a debt...It snowballs...it gets exponentially easier to move and at a higher level with each pound dropped. In turn, you'll play more and have more ability and stamina. Trust me.

    I was there. I've dropped just shy of 70 pounds (I'm 170 now) since the end of October '08. Make no mistake it was a lot of hard work and discipline. But it is the best thing I did for myself. I used tennis as my catalyst, and played every chance I had....Indoors, outdoors, leagues, tournaments...I always set a goal and went for it. With a revised diet and playing tennis 4-5 times a week...my cardio health is the equivalent of an elite 24 year old.

    I used to be a very serious athlete and was accomplished at my sport. But, a corporate job and being a dad made putting the pounds on easier than getting them off.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2009
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  27. Solat

    Solat Professional

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    [​IMG]
    #1: Preparation; firstly you are just way too late in your prep, so you are moving to the ball with your racquet still in front of your body. The ball has bounced and your racquet isn't even behind your hand. Roddick takes his back in front of his hand like you do but has much earlier prep and would have his racquet into acceleration when the ball has just bounced. Check out Agassi for a good early prep. Also notice his better L arm extension.
    #2: Rotation to Contact; The ball is now in a similar spot in both pics, notice how you are side on still with no rotation of hips or shoulders into the ball. Agassi has now rotated and created racquet lag which will enable more racquet speed through contact
    #3: Contact; you are still side on, your contact point is at or behind your R leg. Your weight is on the correct leg but really not pushing into the stroke. check out your elbow behind your body, a really weak position to be in, Agassi's is pushing out in front in the pretty common "double bend" position. His racquet is now leading his stroke.
    [​IMG]
    #4: Extension; Your elbow has not moved and your forearm/wrist is creating all racquet movement forwards. Agassi is now driving upward and forward from the shoulder and is most easily recognised by the distance his elbow is from his waist.
    #5. Follow Thru; You are achieving a front on finish not by driving the R side of your body forward but by pulling your L leg under. Racquet is on a similar plane and has not been driven upwards or outwards so has comfortably finished in front of the body. Agassi has really pushed his elbow upwards and forwards and his racquet is slowing down beyond his shoulder and requires this length to slow down with the least effort.
    #6. Recovery; Due to your short jab stroke you have recovered easily but how effective was your stroke? Agassi is moving back to centre but note his racquet is still wrapped around his body.

    Summation : Your FH is way too late in preparation, this does not allow you to therefore transfer your weight into the stroke with an early contact point. This lack of an early contact point will restrict your ability to generate power and spin.
     
    #27
  28. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    Eph,

    When you move into court, step out with foot closest to ball. Also, concentrate on moving on the balls of your feet.

    For example, in your situation, you should have stepped out with your right foot when moving to the right for your FH.

    During your practice, I'd recommend just moving into court every time. Just so that you ingrain the above into your muscle memory. THEN, you can work on more involved footwork patterns.

    In any case, by doing just this, you'll clean up your strokes a lot. This will facilitate your load leg and better align your torso. Also, your timing will be better and you'll hit the ball earlier and more out in front.
     
    #28
  29. The_Steak

    The_Steak Rookie

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    Yeah, by reducing the weight, you can get to the ball faster.
     
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  30. chico9166

    chico9166 Guest

    Eph,

    I would just try and develope the feel of rotating the hitting structure forward to meet your contact point requirements. Let your hips "lead" this movement. So, instead of pulling, or swinging the racquet forward initially, when you think its time to swing, turn on the ball.

    This is probably easiest to learn from more of an open type of stance, where there is very little back to front weight shift. Align, and load on the right leg, and try and keep the axis of rotation back towards the right side of the body.
     
    #30
  31. fluffy Beaver

    fluffy Beaver Professional

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    LOL I like that you try to cover up your smart *** comment since no one backed you up and are now calling you out on it.

    saying he "needs" a coach is different than suggesting/recommending kindly.

    BTW I like that you now took down your vids.

    Doesn't seem to help you since you're sub par 2.5-3.0.
     
    #31
  32. fluffy Beaver

    fluffy Beaver Professional

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    Apparently it was 3 users that took offense, not 1, and you can count me in +4. ;)
     
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  33. ramseszerg

    ramseszerg Professional

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    whew.. im spending too much time on here..

    yeah, I worded it badly. But I did not mean it that way, and if you don't believe me, what can I do about it? I've helped Eph in the past, so I knew he wouldn't take it the wrong way. I wasn't thinking about you four people when I wrote it, because again, I wasn't talking to you!

    And about the video, I always take it down after a while, for my own reasons. That wasn't the first time I've posted a video and taken it down, more like the third.

    And about your comment about me being a 2.5-3.0, I doubt it, but I don't have to prove anything to some random dude on the internet.

    Sorry for hijacking the thread eph, wasn't my intention.
     
    #33
  34. BullDogTennis

    BullDogTennis Hall of Fame

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    solat...nothin against your post up there, i didnt actually read it all, but i looked at the picture, and i just wann know how your comparing somone (eph) hitting a completely CLOSED forehand, to what looks like agassi hitting a completely OPEN forehand...there gonna be quite a bit differnt in mechanics...but i didnt actually read it so im not gonna go about what your saying is wrong, just wonderin why you would compare somethin so differnt. ill go back and read it a bit later tho, im a bit pressed on time.
     
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  35. NotAtTheNet

    NotAtTheNet Semi-Pro

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Solat only gave instruction on the upper body mechanics, contact point and follow through. That should be identical for both open and closed stance FHs. Points to Solat for taking the time to mock up the screen caps.
     
    #35
  36. BullDogTennis

    BullDogTennis Hall of Fame

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    your right. like i said at the time, i hadnt read it...i just looked at the pictures at the time.
     
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  37. lilxjohnyy

    lilxjohnyy Hall of Fame

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    i actually think your backhand looks fine... your forehand needs some work though
     
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  38. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    His backhand has less problems than his forehand, but it does still have problems. Look at my above post
     
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  39. Eph

    Eph Professional

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    Just topspin and some footwork issues?
     
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  40. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    Much easier to correct stroke production issues when the footwork is correct. (And this is maybe a core issue in American teaching, since footwork is often treated separately from and with less priority than stroke production.)

    It takes away the inclination to "arm" strokes, overrotate through a shot, and so on. 80% of the backhand issues you see on this site are founded on people stepping out with the wrong leg.
     
    #40
  41. Solat

    Solat Professional

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    i compared the two to show how late he is, the reason he is playing a neutral stance forehand is due to the lateness in his preparation. Regardless of stance you still need a contact point in front of the body. Neutral stances are most suited to shorter balls that you have time to transfer your weight forwards. Quite clearly Eph's ball was reasonably deep (as you can see it just post bounce in the first pic) so he is going to need a more open stance to more efficiently execute the stroke.

    I also showed Agassi or any player because of his body type being the most similar to Eph's thus making him a more appropriate comparison.
     
    #41
  42. BullDogTennis

    BullDogTennis Hall of Fame

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    ^^i dont doubt you, you've helped me alot from reading your stuff, i just thought that was weird thing to do, but i see now...

    i see when a player uses a closed stance theres a less chance or errors...usually when im playing and shanking balls thats one of the first things ill do ill make sure i close my stance. but i do like to play an "open" stance, but i still think the closed is less prone to errors (barring you get your footwork into it, i think you need better footwork to play with a closed stance)

    but eph, i admire the way your work ethic is and how your wanting to improve, i do think you need to get a coach tho, for maybe just a lesson or two, he can help you alot more than these message board will, these guys know what there talkin about, but its hard to transfer the information from your house on a computer to the court. if you get a coach he'll correct you as your hitting, stop you and fix things.
     
    #42

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