Forehand Consistency.

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Kana Himezaki, Jun 10, 2005.

  1. Kana Himezaki

    Kana Himezaki Semi-Pro

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    Forehand Consistency. Read it. NOW.

    Read it. I took the time to write this, you can take the time to read it. If your forehand is inconsistent or you're just looking for tips in general, that is.

    It's sort of long, but you can skip to the parts you like that are bolded. And it's an easy read, anyway.

    Above all, I tried to keep it as simple as possible. It's not that you're stupid, it's that most people (including myself) have no idea what the hell is going on when you find a huge post filled with frequent referencing of the "kinetic chain" and extremely detailed accounts of the most minute details.

    Let's face it, that's not going to help most people. I didn't use any words that a middle schooler can't understand. If you think I did, ask me or scream at me.

    Everything in this post links to each other. So expect frequent referencing. These are THE most common mistakes when dealing with inconsistency in forehands.

    So...


    BACKSWING:

    The first thing many people will say is that the backswing is too large when you're asking why your FH is screwing up. This is right most of the time. Some people take the racquet back to even 8'o'clock (in relation to their body), and never realize it. A huge windup means INCONSISTENCY, especially on hard-hit balls.

    Before you read the following tips, look at the next section. Then if you THINK you're doing that (which if you're inconsistent, let's face it, you're probably not), absolutely sure it's not your problem, or if you just have a problem with this, too: Read on.

    To get used to hitting a shorter backswing, which coincidentally is one of the biggest parts of hitting ON THE RISE, try...

    -Keep your elbow in DURING THE SWING. There's a bigggg section on
    this later in this post, READ it. I'm putting it here too because it's
    important even when hitting with the shorter backswing. In order to get
    used to this -put a tennis ball in your armpit. And KEEP IT there during
    the swing. It shouldn't fall out until after your followthrough. Once again,
    your elbow will not be kept in during the backswing, but after takeback,
    should be close to your body.

    -Stand INSIDE the baseline. This will force you to take it earlier. This
    makes you...turn quicker! (Covered in preparation next more thoroughly)
    And...shorter backswing! Wait, I'm taking away time from the opponent,
    shortening my backswing, and STILL keeping just as much or more pace
    without dealing with a tricky bounce? No way! All the cool kids do it!

    -Having a partner serve from the service line at you. This will develop
    returns which...coincidentally...are pretty much like hitting on the rise!
    THAT'S why Agassi was good at taking the ball early and returning at the
    same time! It usually helps people if they see the effects of a shorter
    backswing more clearly in returns, then applying it at the baseline.

    -Try dropping a ball from your hand close to you and hitting it right at the
    bounce. You can't really do that if your racquet is all the way behind you,
    right? Shorten the backswing, keep the followthrough, and force a quicker
    turn until you can do it right.



    PREPARATION: (Read! Read it, dammit!)

    HOWEVER, wait to adjust that. It might not be true for you anyway. Are you seeing the ball soon enough? Try to react to the ball as soon as it comes off your opponent's racquet, NOT after it crosses the net like 90% of players do.

    As soon as it comes off your opponent's racquet...say "BALL". It helps, and you won't sound stupid if you don't scream it.

    Move into position as soon as possible. You have no idea how many juniors get angry and think they're running for every ball when their coach tells them to get to the ball and hustle. Even on shots generally close to you, get into an IDEAL position for yourself.

    Then as soon as you can, take your racquet back. You shouldn't arm takeback, most of the backswing should be a direct result from turning the hips and shoulders sideways and coiling the upper body.

    Preparation is the single most undervalued part of tennis in the junior world.



    KEEPING THE ELBOW IN: (If you're a beginner...you probably don't.)

    Another way to increase consistency is KEEPING THE DAMN ELBOW IN DURING THE SWING. I say "damn" because I find almost every other person my age understands the phrase or sentence much, much better when you simply add a "damn" in it.

    You LOSE CONTROL when the arm is away, and you're swinging with a straight arm. If you're scientific, it's harder to direct your body, muscles, and swing when the contact point is further away from your body. Also, when using a straighter arm (as forced by not keeping the elbow in), you're often forcing yourself to use the wrist.

    MORE inconsistency there.

    Also, keeping the elbow in helps in power slightly, too. When making contact, you're mostly rotating into the ball, your elbow position hasn't changed much. Then, as you make contact, you're extending THROUGH the ball. This creates power and depth. You can't really push through the ball if your arm is straighter.

    Consistency, power, AND depth? Wow, I think that's cool.

    Tuck a ball in your armpit. Take your swing, and don't let it fall out until AFTER the followthrough. If it falls out earlier than after that, it means your elbow is too far away. Ouch.



    I'll go into more later if I feel like it, or people were able to understand it easily.
     
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  2. snowpuppy

    snowpuppy Semi-Pro

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    umm.. i'll be the first to thank you for your efforts. But i don't really want to read this much, nor do i want to think this much while playing.
     
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  3. eLterrible

    eLterrible Rookie

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    Thanks for the post, you should do a monthly post like this :p The elbow tip really helps, i judge my reach terribly so i find myself stretching a lot, taking away my consistancy, power and form...but never realized it until now.
     
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  4. benasp

    benasp Semi-Pro

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    i'm very interested in your post but i'm french and i don't understand to keep the elbow in. I know what you mean, don't hit with arm straight, but at wich point. pict or video would help a lot
     
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  5. Kana Himezaki

    Kana Himezaki Semi-Pro

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    That's why you look at the bold parts, and read accordingly.

    And you DON'T want to think much. You want to focus on the ball while playing, and almost nothing else.

    This is for using in practice, having your body get used to it, sort of memorize what you're trying to do, and get into good habits that will come back naturally on the court.

    Despite what anyone says, thinking is BAD while playing. Plan out your point before, and do minimal thinking in play. Be dumb, you'll be the better for it.



    Benasp - At which point? It's not an exact point. Try the drill I mentioned of keeping the ball in your armpit during your swing. It's covered in there, but I'll say it again. If the ball falls out before the followthrough...start with the elbow closer.

    Keeping the elbow in should come naturally with a good backswing when turning your trunk. Once your racquets set up back there, and your elbows in (almost touching your body, or even touching your body), it probably won't move out for the rest of the shot.
     
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  6. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

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    Kana, if thinking is so bad, then why are you overloading us with random thoughts (and putting "damn" all over the place while you're at it)

    J/K Nice effort. The drills woulld certainly help.
     
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  7. Kana Himezaki

    Kana Himezaki Semi-Pro

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    LOL. As stated, adding "damn" adds to the comprehension levels of juniors greatly. Including myself.

    For example:

    A: "As a result, my cerebral neurons are establishing large numbers of synaptic connections to adequately process the reading material."

    B: "Indubitably."

    Hard to understand, right? Change it to:

    A: "As a result, the DAMNED CEREBRAL NEURONS are goddamn establishing connections to adequately process the reading material."
    B: "Hella tight, dawg."

    It's even in studies. The word single handedly could change teaching and boring subjects as we know it, simply by adding it in key points. :D rofl.
     
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  8. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

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    ...school would never be the same ;)
     
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  9. TwistServe

    TwistServe Guest

    You missed the biggest part of forehand consistency: net clearance. If you watch the clay court players, how come they can go for so many rallys? Because they hit way over the net.. 5+ foot over the net.

    As for the elbow tidbit.. Depending on the grip the distance at which you want to tuck in the elbow varies. With eastern grip the elbow is less tucked in. With western grip the elbow is more tucked in. The reason you want your elbow "tucked in" (i like that word better).. is because when its tucked in, its closer to your body, and your brain can make proper calcations and knows where the racquet is at all times. Also the distance from your elbow when tucked in to your body doesn't ever change.

    And a picture does wonders.. See how Federer does not have his elbow tucked in much because here he is using more of an eastern grip:

    http://www.importexpert.com/tennis/Federer_FH.mov

    See how ferrero's elbow is tucked in and close to his body because of his western grip: http://www.aquo02.dsl.pipex.com/Ferrero.mov

    [​IMG]

    There's a big old thread about the elbow / ben arm at contact: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=21306&highlight=elbow+forehand
     
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  10. Kana Himezaki

    Kana Himezaki Semi-Pro

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    Net clearance IS a huge part. However, I'm focusing on preparation and the swing. I've said it in other threads. Hoewver, the things mentioned above all link together. Aiming for at LEAST two feet over the net (one if it's relatively flat) is essential.

    But once again, more players have problems with what I mentioned above. Most people already know not to hit it as low as possible.

    Benefits to keeping the elbow "tucked in" are already stated in my post.

    Plus, in the Federer movie, he's barely even warming up. However, STILL note his elbow is fully bent and kept relatively close to the body. Eastern grips do keep slightly further away, but for SW and Western grips it's completely essential.

    Thanks for the movies.
     
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  11. TwistServe

    TwistServe Guest

    When all else fails: Grip it and Rip it!
     
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  12. Kana Himezaki

    Kana Himezaki Semi-Pro

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    ...rip it consistently.

    You sound like a high school guy on the freshman/sop****re team. :D

    When all else fails, play the percentages. Sure, "rip it". But rip it preferably crosscourt, and don't try anything stupid.
     
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  13. TwistServe

    TwistServe Guest

    Nah.. Rip it on the lines.. Paint the "damn" lines over and over and over. Go for the crazy angles like Puerta! You can do it you can do it. never be scared of your strokes! Have confidenc3!
     
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  14. Kana Himezaki

    Kana Himezaki Semi-Pro

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    In case you forgot, Puerta made lots of errors. :p He WAS controlling the point...then he'd just screw it up. XD

    And don't aim for the "damn" lines, it's better to aim for the middle between the center hash mark and sideline. More error margin, still good results.

    It's more fun to "rip it" when you're playing for fun. But when it's a tournament, or you're playing a match...it's way more fun to win.

    ...I can't stand losing.
     
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  15. TwistServe

    TwistServe Guest

    Losing is a fact that helps you improve your game. When people cant stand losing they end up pushing the ball back and doing whatever it takes to win. Playing dink balls and just being afraid to do anything... One of the biggest hurdle most players have is getting a real second serve in a match. Most players break down completely on their second serve and it takes probably months of losing matches before you have the confidence to really nail a hard kicker on a second serve.

    As for me, sometimes I purposely drop a game when I'm ahead so that I can serve for one more time.. extra practice ya baby!
     
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  16. Kana Himezaki

    Kana Himezaki Semi-Pro

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    Not being able to stand losing is COMPLETELY different from what you said.

    Percentage tennis is NOT dinking the ball, it is playing the ball with the highest chance of going in. You STAY just as aggressive, you just play it crosscourt more, and don't take risks you would have otherwise. It doesn't mean holding back at all.

    I HAVE lost. Losing DOES help you. However, when playing, I'm extremely competitive. I don't want to lose, PERIOD. That doesn't mean dinking, nor does it mean breaking down and getting anxious.

    I simply get more tenacious, and sometimes even begin diving for balls. Maybe even more aggressive.

    I'll give you most of the names in pro sports...they're the same way. Competitive. They wouldn't be on the pro level if they didn't have the drive to win and stay up there.


    edit:: And I'm pretty sure for almost anyone who's willing to do anything not to lose, they're aggressive. They're NOT going to push. Anyone beyond the 3.0 level knows he's not going to win by pushing.
     
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  17. TwistServe

    TwistServe Guest

    There are lots of great 3.5 and 4.0 pushers.. Sometimes you even see a few in the 4.5 range. I know your next arugment is that you live in southern california so the competition is different.. guess what I live in socal too.. Pushers come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, and at all levels. There tons of them at the levels I mentioned. And older men like 40+ are notorious for pushing. Even BB made a post about losing to a really good pusher some time last year. You think BB loses to 3.0s?
     
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  18. Kana Himezaki

    Kana Himezaki Semi-Pro

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    My main point was not wanting to lose usually never means pushing. Anyone with that mindset is probably aggressive in the first place.

    Also, if they're beating you above 3.0, they're NOT PUSHING. Not at all. "Pushing" has simply come to mean anyone who can keep the ball in, somehow. You shouldn't give a derogatory name to someone who doesn't really "push" the ball, and someone who can beat you.

    There are counter punchers and there are grinders. I won't talk about it here, there are MILLIONS of threads you can find with the search function.

    Pushing also does not mean playing percentage tennis. That's something all players, even the aggressive ones at higher levels do.
     
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  19. TwistServe

    TwistServe Guest

    I think the thing is, most juniors, like yourself, only play other juniors.. You have't had to deal with a true pusher.. try playing some old guy that's like 50 years old that's been playing tennis for 30 years.. 30 years of pushing he can beat lots of 4.0s and 4.5s just by getting his racquet on every ball, even tho theres absolutely no spin on any strokes.
     
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  20. Kana Himezaki

    Kana Himezaki Semi-Pro

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    I've played against all kinds of "pushers".

    If there's no spin or depth, it's going to be killed by anyone who's actually a 4.5. If he's keeping it deep, and forcing you to generate all the pace and keep it unattackable -he's not pushing. A "true" pusher sticks to the name, and gives an extremely short "push" through the ball. It'll go in, it won't have any pace, depth, or spin.

    If they do otherwise, maybe they're not pushing. And a 50 year old guy isn't going to get those shots that are put away.

    A short, floating, spinless ball is something Nadal couldn't chase down when given to anyone who's actually a 4.0 or 4.5.
     
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  21. TwistServe

    TwistServe Guest

    Your arugment flaws in that a 3.0 could hardly keep the ball in play because they'd be so inconsistent even if they tried to push lOl. So how could a 3.0 player ever be a pusher and win?.. Hell they can't even serve.. Look up 3.0 definition.. how do pushers win when they cant serve yet theres so many threads about the topic alone lol.. obvioulsy pushing continues to go up the ranks.. when I say players push, I dont mean the whole game.. when they serve out a set, down breakpoint, etc.. they'll do what it needs to be done.

    hmm i think i hijacked this thread sorry :)

    Also i never said anything about %tennis. I said people that tend to want to win and afraid to lose end up pushing. Dont put words in the mouth of the twister.

    Moya vs Massu at the 2004 Oympics.. Massu snaps a string on match point and starts pushing the ball back.. Moya doesn't know what to do so he pushes the ball back to massu too! THIS IS HUMAN NATURE

    What happen to Coria VS Nadal during the ROME finals match point? Nadal throws up a defensive lob that is well short. Coria should put it away, and he would have any other point.. but its MATCH POINT! Coria pushes the ball back and Nadal scores a winning passingshot.
     
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  22. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    I think that is a great post Kana. It does pay dividends to adhere to good mechanics and understand the role of the elbow. A lot of players simply do not know or are not ready to know. You did a great job for all to see, read, print, and review at their leisure. Sometimes people might be on-the-road or away from the computer for awhile and want to print and read things later.

    As far as the "seeing the ball off the players racquet" a couple things need to be said about that. First it is impossible to do that. I think we both know (but wanted to clarify it to others) that what a coach or good player means is to be able to stay alert as to the direction the ball is going to. The sooner the better and the more someone practices trying to see the ball come off the strings the better they will be in position to make a relaxed and clean shot. The goal of a player should be to reduce indecision time. Try and move before the ball comes over the net.

    I did a post not to long ago about PREPARING IN THE AIR. Preparation to move does not begin with seeing the ball off your opponents strings. It begins right after you make contact and how well you recover to the proper position so you are ABLE to react to the direction your opponent is hitting to. This means when you are about hit the ball you have to make the right choice about how your going to hit it.

    I did a post on System Five that can help a player learn when he is to play more defensively and offensively and incorporate this in their practice sessions. Brad Gilbert did a recent article on shot selection and recovery as well.

    Controlling elbow movment but at the same time allowing it freedom of movement will help a player a lot.
     
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  23. Thereallovebone

    Thereallovebone Rookie

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    I disagree that you need to keep the elbow close to the body. You want it close on contact but on the backswing, a raised elbow is a HUGE source of power and spin. Look at the two best forehands in the history of tennis, Lendl and Agassi. They both raise the elbow on the backswing. So do tons of other pros. It might be easier for a beginner to hit with the elbow close, but as you advance a raised elbow on the backswing can be beneficial.
     
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  24. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    A raised elbow on the backswing is not the source of HUGE power and spin. It does not serve that function. The source of power and spin comes from a deliberate use of the kinetic chain. The main intiator for upper body rotation is the stomach.

    The purpose of raising the elbow high on the backswing is to help shorten the backswing and to help not letting the racquet go behind the body on the backswing. If you raise the elbow it is more difficult to get the racquet behind your body on the backswing.

    Having an elbow that is close to the body is important. The most important part of the swing is six inches before and after contact. As the elbow passes the side and goes in front of the body, a stable elbow helps a player make clean contact.

    In the modern forehand, the elbow leads the shoulder rotation. This initial tug sets the racquet path in motion forward with the elbow coming along side (within reason) and passing to get in front of the body plane at contact.
     
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  25. Return_Ace

    Return_Ace Professional

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    Heya Kana Great Post btw, and the use of "Damn" just helps you understand it and stresses the important points :).

    Also I shoved this thread in the sticky up top so everyone can read your thread :)
     
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  26. Thereallovebone

    Thereallovebone Rookie

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    Yes it is. It helps create increased height of the racket head on the
    backswing which results in an increase in racket head speed. Physicist
    Dr. Pat Keating found that on a free falling loop, the racket head gains approximately 5.5. miles per hour on the first foot of the drop; then multiply 5.5 times the square root of the height of the drop. The result is the speed of the racket due to gravity. This increased racket speed has a multiple effect on the speed of the ball, and it helps explain why little kids who use the loop can hit the ball so hard. In contrast to this, the person who goes straight back to the low point of his backswing has gained ZERO miles per hour as he starts to move into the ball. He must use alot more muscular effort to gain sufficient racket speed in a short period of time. The loop is
    impossible if you keep your elbow tight the whole swing. Show me one picture of a pro (besides McEnroe ) who keeps his elbow close to his body the ENTIRE SWING, start to finish. ONE.
     
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  27. TwistServe

    TwistServe Guest

    How come every post that Kana post you come kiss it up? lol You two should "go" out to the prom in a few years.
     
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  28. TwistServe

    TwistServe Guest

    I'll say one thing.. the raised elbow in a serve does wonders! But than in a serve you want your elbow extended at contact too.. so its a totally different motion.

    Also Andy Roddick has a raised elbow on his backswing for his forehand. I'm looking at the Advanced Tennis video clips of his forehands right now.. But his technique is a little different.
     
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  29. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    A dropping racquet has nothing to do with a raised elbow! You are mixing in information that has nothing to do with each other.

    Increased racquet head speed can also happen with a minor takeback in the racquet. A large loop in the racquet also has diminishing returns when it comes to timing.

    No one has said to keep the elbow locked into your side. You are the only one that interpreted it this way. You are mixing apples and oranges.

    No one has said you need to keep your elbow in the body the ENTIRE swing! The elbow is free to move but it is not the source of power. You are flat out wrong on that.

    On the racquet takeback the elbow is suppose to move in a natural way as some players raise the elbow up and then take the racquet back which helps to reduce a large and unnecessary backswing.

    The elbow as it comes forward runs in a line and crosses the side as it heads out in front of the body remaining CLOSE to the body. It is not dangling away or moving up and down to alter the racquet head during the forward swing.

    You might want to study a bit more before you start chiming in and twisting words around.

    Most of the people here already know that a racquet in a loop takeback requires less muscle recruitment to generate racquet head speed then a short takeback due to gravity. However, as I stated above, a high loop takeback has diminishing returns in timing.

    The elbow has nothing to do with HUGE power. It is part of the kinetic chain and serves its purpose to stay close to the body as it swings forward and through.

    Further you can still have a high racquet takeback and a low elbow which is comfortably close to the body.
     
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  30. Thereallovebone

    Thereallovebone Rookie

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    What do you mean no one said to keep the elbow close????
     
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  31. Thereallovebone

    Thereallovebone Rookie

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    You might want to read the original post that I'm responding to before you chime in. I didn't twist anything around.
     
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  32. Thereallovebone

    Thereallovebone Rookie

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  33. Return_Ace

    Return_Ace Professional

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    I'm sorry, I never thought complimenting somone on a good thread was now "kissing it up". And probably would go to a prom with Kana except there are a few problems:

    1) She's 6' and I'm 5'6/7, that would make me look bloody stupid (no offence Kana)

    2) I'm in FRIGGING ENGLAND so that means:
    a) I don't even know wtf a prom is (I'm guessing it's some kind of dance thing)
    b) Unless you're going to pay for the bloody flight I'm not going to see her! GIMP!

    And it is true that for teens the use of small "swear words" helps lighten the mood, and conveys the point better, GOT IT???

    And, go and find proof that i do "kiss up" every post that kana makes, i'm sure you'll find that i don't actually do this and that the "kissing up" is all in your head..............I think that your just jealous since NOBODY else had a problem with my post..........
     
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  34. Thereallovebone

    Thereallovebone Rookie

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    $500 DOLLAR CHALLENGE TO BUNGALOW BILL!!!!!!!

    Let's play a game Bill. The Crosscourt forehand challenge match!!!

    2 out of 3 games to 21. We each have half the court to hit into, the forehand side. We play 2 out of 3 groundstroke games to 21. The only rule is that you have to keep a tennis ball under your armpit the whole time.
    If it falls out before the followthrough YOU LOSE!! I get to use my crazy raised elbow forehand.
    What do you say?????
     
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  35. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Again, you are twisting the meaning of drills and exercises that are designed to reduce excessive elbow roll. The elbow plays a key role in racquet control. It is part of the kinetic chain and comes forward of the body plane during contact which can give way to a wrist release or no wrist release.

    Having the elbow pass close to the body is a good thing. It is what your suppose to do. It is harder for a player to control their racquet face angle with the elbow away from the body and is one of the situations if you see this you step in and anticipate a short ball.

    What you are doing is twisting the words we are saying above and making it sound like the elbow doesnt move or is locked into the body and should be isolated. Far from the truth.

    Lets make it even on the competition. You are allowed to have your high elbow and I will be able swing the racquet the way I know how to swing which is using an educated elbow and we will see how you do.

    Better be ready pal.
     
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  36. Thereallovebone

    Thereallovebone Rookie

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    You keep saying I'm twisting things. I didn't twist anything.. I notice you didn't mention a single word about her "tennis ball under the armpit". You're the one who's completely ignoring the content of her post. GO STUDY HER POST then chime in. I take that as a no on my challenge? I understand. I didn't think someone would actually want to try to play with such a flawed technique. SHOW ME ONE PRO WHO HITS THEIR FOREHAND IN SUCH A WAY THAT A BALL WOULD REMAIN UNDER THEIR ARMPIT UNTIL THE FOLLWTHROUGH. You're great at insulting people, I'll give you that. But you completely ignore questions when you don't have the answers.
     
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  37. Thereallovebone

    Thereallovebone Rookie

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    So you really don't believe you should swing like you have a tennis ball under your armpit. I didn't think so. Neither do I.
     
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  38. Thereallovebone

    Thereallovebone Rookie

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    Me and my $500.00 are ready for ANYONE who agrees to keep a tennis ball under their armpit. BRING EM ON!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    #38
  39. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Oh geez not another one.

    You're not making sense. I agree with the drill or exercise that places a tennis ball under the arm pit if it helps a player resolve excessive elbow movement in the stroke. I have used it many times to illustrate how the elbow works in a stroke. Is that enough now?

    Again, you are taking things to extremes. The ball under the elbow creates a feeling for the POSITION of the elbow during a stroke and helps someone learn the approximate distance from the side of the body the elbow needs to be in as it moves forward to contact. In real play this may move in and out of this location but it will be within balance.

    The human body creates its best leverage with the elbow closer to the body. This measurement of a balls distance helps players learn that they need to learn how to have an educated elbow and not have excessive movement which can cause a ton of problems.

    Your challenge is unfair. You are not allowing me to swing the racquet while you can. But I tell what I will accept. You swing the way you swing and I will swing the way I swing. I will go anyday with someone forehand to forehand. I think you ought to calm down and try and understand what we are saying.

    Here is a pro that is hitting a forehand so you can see what we mean.

    http://www.tennisone.com/membership/slo-henman.php
     
    #39
  40. TwistServe

    TwistServe Guest

    If you guys do play a match or a "game", please record it on DivX or some other medium :).. and allow us to watch.
     
    #40
  41. Thereallovebone

    Thereallovebone Rookie

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    There Is No Way In Hell That A Tennis Ball Will Stay Under Henman's Armpit During That Forehand. And If That's Not What's Happening Then Why Offer It Up As Some Great Tip????
     
    #41
  42. Thereallovebone

    Thereallovebone Rookie

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    Bungalow Bill didn't take my challenge. He figured (and rightly so) that it would be nearly impossible to hit decent forehands after placing a tennis ball under his armpit like Kana suggested.
     
    #42
  43. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    When players play in a dynamic condition there will be times it will be one ball, two balls, three balls, one ball in a half, etc. However, the majority of time the one ball theory is a good teaching tool as it generally lets the arm move naturally and helps reduce injury.

    The point to the ball under the arm pit, is again, used to EDUCATE someone on how they are to MOVE their elbow in such a way as to NOT lose control of the racquet face.

    Some players swing like a gate with the elbow far away from their body. Some players lift their elbow back and up at contact. This is the point of the ball under the arm pit exercise.

    No one is measuring whether a ball can stay under someones armpit the whole match. It wont! It is to get an idea of where the elbow can comfortably pass during the forward motion of the stroke. It is a guideline. The ball under the arm pit helps eliminate elbow roll and players who stick their arm way out from their body and get tennis elbow or swing like a gate.

    I am not trying to make fun of you or insult you. If I did I apoligize. I can also get a bit direct about things. Here is a pciture that I believe is showing us what you mean about the elbow.

    In this picture the elbow moves away from the body but is not extended out towards the left or right from the side. This is perfectly ok because the circular motion of the elbow will pass relatively close to the side.

    http://www.easitennis.com/ExampleAnalysis.html

    Also, to support what you are trying to say. Many players have their elbow a little further out from the side then others. This is also acceptable PROVIDING it is not causing excessive damage to the elbow AND they can control the racquet face.

    The reason why the elbow can move around more in todays tennis is because of the use of the Western grips. The Western grips have the added benefit of "locking" the wrist with the forearm. The Eastern does not and one who uses the Eastern has to take extra care to fix the wrist as the racquet moves forward.
     
    #43
  44. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Because it is and is very useful in teaching.
     
    #44
  45. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Again the purpose of the ball under the arm pit is to help the body understand how the elbow is to pass.

    I think the challenge should be even. I have played a long time. I have an excellent forehand. It is my weapon. But I learned the stupid "ball under the arm pit" way. I learned that one of the best things to do is to keep the elbow close to the body for racquet control and power (leverage).

    It is obvious to me that my power will be like an old dog chasing a fox. Your shiney new forehand will be like it is ready for the Daytona 500.

    So what do you say? I will play with my old, out-of-date, lousey forehand against your new, high racquet and big elbow movement. I think that is fair dont you?
     
    #45
  46. Thereallovebone

    Thereallovebone Rookie

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    Yeah, just don't try to actually use it in a $500.00 challenge match.
     
    #46
  47. Thereallovebone

    Thereallovebone Rookie

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    Just keep that ball under your armpit and YOU'RE ON!! I'll crush those weak little feeble forehands that you hit right down your throat!!!!!
     
    #47
  48. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Oh no, I already said the ball under the arm pit is an exercise. People dont play with the ball under the arm pit in a real match but they learn to use it as a guideline.

    If you have so much confidence in what you are saying it is clear to me that my forehand is a tired old coon dog. Come on you should easily nail me as I feebly try to keep my elbow close. What do you say, give an old dog a chance to win.
     
    #48
  49. Thereallovebone

    Thereallovebone Rookie

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    Why wouldn't you want to employ such a great tip like keeping the ball under your armpit? When I disagreed with it you put me in my place. Why not put your money where your mouth is and use that great tip to kick my butt??

    BECAUSE IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO HIT A DECENT FOREHAND THAT WAY!!
     
    #49
  50. Thereallovebone

    Thereallovebone Rookie

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    #50

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