Forehand Topspin Drive

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by KayFactor, Nov 29, 2012.

  1. Geology_Rocks!

    Geology_Rocks! Semi-Pro

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    Thats ulnar deviation.....

    Pronation does not close the racket face.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
  2. toly

    toly Hall of Fame

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    I disagree. The hand sits on the forearm (wrist) and during forearm pronation/supination just enjoys the ride. :)
     
  3. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    ulnar deviation?? ulnar deviation closes a racquet face??
    ouch. ok. I think i see the problem here.
    carry on.
     
  4. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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    ssc

    I do NOT want to awake an MTM dragon but are you saying :)
    that Lansdorp did NOT teach Miss Sharapova to use her ssc.
    Just terrible :)
     
  5. Geology_Rocks!

    Geology_Rocks! Semi-Pro

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    At 10 seconds his wrist goes backwards is this what you are talking about? Because that is ulnar deviation.

    the real ''outch'' is ppl thinking pronation during takeback will close the racket face.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
  6. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    you are not understanding correctly. all three mentioned use ssc in their forearm by supinating max in their forward swing.
     
  7. toly

    toly Hall of Fame

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    Due to they hit with straight arm, to create topspin they use Arm Pronation.

    Arm pronation is forearm pronation plus internal shoulder rotation.
     
  8. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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    I am just peachy

    I am just peachy :)
    Thank you.
    I was trying to take a jab at MTM but it backfired.
    The issue is which of two (or three) options is more efficient.
    i.e Ft-1 vs (Ft-2 or FT-3)
    There is a belief (not mine) that FT-2 and FT-3 use ssc "better"
    Now I have to have a drink before I will go to a Christmas party.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
  9. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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    Stupid question

    Can they use pronation WITHOUT having an arm straight?
     
  10. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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    Clarification please

    Your quote
    --->
    Pronation would therefore be a positive rotation (right hand rule) of the racquet axis about the forearm axis.
    ---->
    Do you take a vector product of two vectors?
    What do you mean by "right hand rule" ?
     
  11. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    This thread is turning to a mess due to the lack of agreement on definitions. Rather than create new definitions, we should just use the medical terms as a standard. When you lie down on your back with the palms- the forearm is in a supinated position. Supination is a verb. The shoulder is also externally rotated.

    In any case, I'll just say what I feel I do. When I put my thumb down on the take back, it is mainly elbow/hand pronation, with a veeery slight ISR.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
  12. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    pronation and internal rotation of the humerus are two independent motions.
     
  13. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
  14. KayFactor

    KayFactor Rookie

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    Haha, yes. I read this post and it's helpful.
    Right now, I'm getting confused reading about this pronation and supination stuff, but I'm beginning to understand it.
     
  15. KayFactor

    KayFactor Rookie

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    By the way, what is internal shoulder rotation and what does it do to my stroke?
     
  16. psv255

    psv255 Professional

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    Internal shoulder rotation is the rotation of your upper arm at the shoulder. If you put your hand on a table, arm completely straight, and try to turn your elbow outward/inward, you're experiencing ISR.
    see here: http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/anatomy/Image19.gif
    ISR is used in the serve (along with forearm pronation) and sometimes the forehand (but it's not at all necessary and could be harmful to for the shoulder).
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
  17. TheCheese

    TheCheese Professional

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    I agree. And even talking about medical terms doesn't even help anyone learn how to actually hit the ball.
     
  18. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Also agree. These medical terms are not designed to use in such a dynamic reference,
    and vary in the effect due to grips and other variances in style.

    Also funny that the other poster wants to take a jab at others when he only asks goofy
    questions and provides little to no insight?? :???:
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
  19. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    here is a site describing the arm motion of the modern FH quite well. the motion includes both humerus IR and pronation.

    http://www.revolutionarytennis.com/step8.html

    (BTW I don't agree with that site regards the lower body since he doesn't seem to like rotation and the kinetic chain but he describes the arm and racket motion quite well (humerus IR, supination followed by pronation...)
     
  20. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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    Supination is a noun

    1.I have thought that "supination" is a noun.
    2.I do NOT know a medical terminology
     
  21. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    Hi Julian,

    I'm happy to have a conversation with you. If you have some thoughts you'd like to express, the please do. If I don't agree I will as respectfully as possible attempt to state my position.

    But I'm not going to play 20 questions with you and allow you to be the arbiter of what constitutes a correct or incorrect answer. I'm sorry.
     
  22. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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  23. Greg G

    Greg G Professional

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    All this technical talk has actually gotten me some useful insight into my own FH! I figured out that I sometimes have too much ISR after contact...probably residual from the older swing path. The result was I was finishing with a high elbow and the racquet pointed down. I was compensating for the early/excess supination with pronation and excess ISR. In other words 'arming it' :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
  24. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    same thing with me. I got to examine my take back more closely again and feel like increasing pressure on the pinky heelpad in the air while lifting the elbow seems to make the swing less floppy and more weight behind the swing. and some other left hand motion.
     
  25. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I was watching a Vic Braden video on Youtube, and he says to get your chin to your shoulder for forehands - as a drill, put a colored dot on the shoulder and get your chin there. Apparently, it increases pre-stretching and makes for a straight arm forehand.
     
  26. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    May work as you say here, but I've always used that as a way of keeping the
    head still and focused on the contact pt.
     
  27. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    but many times I find I don't need that much shoulder rotation. doing that every single time is overkill I think. but it sounds good for ball machine or just hitting session.
     
  28. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    This is so key, at least for me, especially as I've been taking bigger cuts and hitting harder in the past two years.
     
  29. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I think it is an overkill but it does seem to help the last time I tried it. I will try again tomorrow.

    His other observation was that the center of gravity of the body moves with the racket in the forehand stroke. CG is just above the belly button in males and just below in females. If a line is drawn parallel to the racket through the belly button, it moves with it through the stroke. It also moves up into the stroke - he does not believe in the myth of always staying low.
     
  30. KayFactor

    KayFactor Rookie

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    Sorry, what do you mean by "brushing?"
     
  31. Francis27

    Francis27 Semi-Pro

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    Brushing the ball upwards when you hit it to create topspin.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
  32. isilra

    isilra Rookie

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    A lot of vision broadening information here. In just half an hour, i have realized many things that i couldn't before.
     
  33. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    That is the awesome thing about this forum!
    :)
     
  34. KayFactor

    KayFactor Rookie

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    I just realized that I have to load my left leg more (I'm a lefty) to generate spin and net clearance. Does anyone know why this works so well in adding a higher trajectory ball?
     
  35. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    Practice and you'll find out what is best for you. Some hit topspin shots very deep and heavy to the baseline, others hit topspin just over the net to the line at no mans land, you need to learn it all, and that is only accomplished through right practice.
     
  36. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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  37. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    Doesn't the rhs on the verdasco vid look slow in the pov view? Especially on the fh. Maybe it's just me. I thought it should appear faster than that.
     
  38. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    i'm not sure if the frame rate of the camera settings or the fisheye lens distorts that, but the balls he hits sure are going fast!

    look at the forehand "winners" he hits later in the video clip, not just the balls he feeds to start the rally; both from his POV and then from the courtside POV.
     
  39. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    where is my post I made here regarding wegner? (I wrote a very constructive and civil post about what I like and don't like about his Videos)

    I don't understand the mods here. sometimes they delete something for no reason and on the other Hand they allow harsh insults in the current Scene Forum. really no consistency here I think they Need to hire me:.

    I really don't appreciate when I write a thoughtfull post here and the effort gets deleted for no reason. I think I can Claim that I write Quality Content and Analysis here so I don't want to waste my time with Posts that get deleted.

    I admit that I sometimes do spam the current Scene Forum just because the People there are so fanatic and clueless but I really care for biomechanics and like to create toughtfull Analysis about this Topic.

    rant over:D.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2012

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