Forehand Video

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by MasturB, Jan 19, 2011.

  1. MasturB

    MasturB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,939
    Updated: Forehand Video and Ball Machine Vid

    Was given a nice little Sony HD cam for Christmas and haven't gotten a chance to use it yet. So I brought it out today and wanted to record while I was hitting a few balls on the machine.

    I'll record some rallying footage the next time when my friend is available, I just wanted to see what it looks like and didn't have anybody to hit with.

    Any comments are welcome, albeit there's not much footage to go off of. Will have footage of my backhand,etc. next week.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F14k9FaYCWo

    Just officially began my 4th year of when I first picked up a racket, a few weeks ago. Wow have I come a long way. lol


    UPDATED 1/22
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWqKSKclGsU

    Here's me hitting on ball machine. I recorded this video right before the forehand one above. Just did a simple forehand-backhand drill. I do get pretty tired at the end. Again, wasn't taking it that serious like the above video. Working on shortening my takeback on my forehand, and trying to hit backhands a little bit flatter. I do get pretty tired around the 6 minute mark so you'll notice how fatigue I am around there. The day previous to this, I had practiced and played for 5 hours straight. First time I've done that since the summer and tt did have an effect on my body, especially the fatigue on my shoulder hitting backhands.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2011
    #1
  2. b.termite

    b.termite Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    299
    Try to put your weight forward when you hit, you are falling back. That will make your shot a lot more consistent, and give it a lot more spin and power. Get your left foot to be in front when you finish your shot, not your right. (my main problem) Try to get a more uniform follow through, just find one you like. Other then that looks pretty good!
     
    #2
  3. stevenwags987

    stevenwags987 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    139
    Transfer your weight on to your front foot, don't fall back when hitting your forehand
     
    #3
  4. IwishIwasbetter

    IwishIwasbetter Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2008
    Messages:
    351
    try shifting your weight more forward, you are kinda falling back
     
    #4
  5. MonkeyMan123

    MonkeyMan123 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    261
    shift your weight to the front foot, don't fall backwards so much
     
    #5
  6. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,304
    Got a nice pronated takeback and forward swing. You're definitely aiming for the Federer model :D

    1) As mentioned in other posts, you want to have forward momentum and transfer your weight. Try a step out pattern, or pushing off the heel of your outside foot to initiate the unit turn.

    2) During the unit turn, start separating your left hand from the racquet before your left arm extends. This prevents you from having sideways balance issues when you take the racquet back.
     
    #6
  7. dozu

    dozu Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,546
    several people pointed out that you fall backwards.

    the reason this happens, is that your forward swing is not in tune with gravity.

    when you fire the swing too early, the 20lb arm going forward will pull your body backward....

    try to delay the firing just a little, and feel the hip turn pulling your arm forward, instead of the arm getting ahead of the momentum generated from the hips.
     
    #7
  8. DavaiMarat

    DavaiMarat Professional

    Joined:
    May 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,185
    I see Fed's swing but not the footwork. You'll have to incorporate some hip loading and proper transfer to hit a really consistently powerful forehand. Right now you need to force your arm unlike Roger who hits nice and relaxed. Trying using the bigger muscles and relax the arm. You shot will be bigger with less effort.
     
    #8
  9. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    39,163
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Possibly you get a lot of high bouncers in that vid, and taken by surprise, lean back to raise yourself and get away from the ball.
    You hit good, and if your shots are going the way you want, I'd not change much.
    A wider stance, one you use to move forwards in balance already, might be the call for more of your shots.
    Lots of pros and good players hit their forehands off their backfoot, with all the weight there. You seem to lift your front foot, but that doesn't seem to affect your high forehands in any negative way.
     
    #9
  10. MasturB

    MasturB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,939
    Obviously I wasn't really concentrating on footwork here since I knew where the ball would be landing every single time.

    I programmed the ball machine to do rapid fire so I could get some quick reps and cardio.

    Your idea of using the bigger muscles will not produce a relaxed shot, as that would mean I'm "muscling" the ball. A relaxed shot is when the smaller muscles work in coordination with the bigger muscles, so everything works smoothly together to where the bigger muscles don't have to work as hard.
     
    #10
  11. MasturB

    MasturB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,939
    It "appears" I'm leaning back on some of these, but in reality I'm still thrusting upward and forward, just not at a straight 180 towards the net. When I'm on my backfoot, I'm thrusting upward and forward slightly with my backfoot's quadricep, and then using more torso and shoulder rotation to compensate for not being able to pushoff with my front leg.

    I normally only hit with a closed stance and push off my front leg if I'm doing approach shots, or short balls inside the baseline. But hitting off my backfoot, allows me to recover much more quickly and get back to center to get ready to return the next shot.

    In a perfect world, I'd like to lean into every shot, but not even the best players can do that on every shot. Lots of pros (not saying I'm as good as the pros) hit off their backfoot like you mentioned, and there's not a lot of forward leaning action, but they're still able to generate racket head speed by using other muscles and athleticism to compensate in the change of technique.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2011
    #11
  12. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,071
    Well, lot of potential here and many good things.

    I wouldn't agree with delaying the swing suggestion because its not going to happen and your going to start hitting more off the back foot so I don't care for it. Some can get away with it but it can be very tricky so watch out - I'd have you going sooner rather than later and really exploding into the ball - right now its kinda a gentleman's jab which is ok but you can do better.

    I'd like to see more of a racquet drop - very little now. I'd also go for a lower finish.

    Stance is ok (maybe a spec wider) but you should be hitting and rotating much more so your back foot finishes in front of your front foot - in other words, I'd like a lot more motion into the ball
    and coming off the court more. Some might not care for this advise and its not applicable to all but in your case I think based on what I see, you can really develop more racquet speed and action into the ball.
     
    #12
  13. gameboy

    gameboy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,620
    If you are not going to take other people's constructive criticism, then why ask for it?

    You should watch FYB's modern footwork video...
     
    #13
  14. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    39,163
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Interesting that I"m the only guy who didn't mind the OP lean onto his backfoot, yet he answers directly to me about his position on the technique he employs.
    I guess the other 7 posts meant nothing at all.
     
    #14
  15. mtommer

    mtommer Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2008
    Messages:
    2,821
    MasturB,

    I've read your responses but, like some of the others, I still think you're weight should be going forward more. For example, compare the forehands at :07, :09 and :24 to those at :39 and :45. The fh's at :39 and :45 are great examples of getting your weight forward into the swing. Yes, even the pros hit with their weight going backwards but they're also reacting to a shot that forced them out of the ideal position. Considering that you're not even on the run while you're hitting, I feel this shows you're not being stressed all that much in this video. But, also understand that this is just a very minor criticism. It's something that shows itself in the video but doesn't mean you're hitting a bad ball. At the same time, it doesn't mean you can't hit the same ball but with more pace and probably a little better accuracy/depth/spin. Overall though, by far, you're strokes are still very clean and very nice.
     
    #15
  16. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2005
    Messages:
    3,585
    It appears that you have a pause at the bottom of your racquet drop and it
    isn't as smooth/continuous as it could be.
     
    #16
  17. junbumkim

    junbumkim Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,257
    I didn't think you were leaning back..But it did look like your contact point is a tad late in general..There were some shots you were definately late.

    It looks like you are modelling after Federer?

    I think you can involve more core rotation into the shot. You definitely do the shoulder turn, but you are not rotating into the shot as aggressively as you can.
    It looks like you arm goes forward first, and your trunk rotates into the shot afterward.

    Since it looks like you are using a ball machine, you are getting a lot of the same balls. It's an opportunity to really groove and learn to get aggressive on your stroke.
     
    #17
  18. pyrokid

    pyrokid Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,768
    If it's on a ball machine, you really should have your weight going into most shots because you know where they're going to. Especially in this case, where they're all coming right at you. And I especially, especially would have moved my feet a lot if I wanted cardio, but I understand that that can be a little overlooked when hitting on a ball machine.

    Also, DMarat is a pretty knowledgeable dude. I'd listen to him, even if I disagreed with him, just based on past things he's said and done.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2011
    #18
  19. MichaelChang

    MichaelChang Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    2,259
    What is your height?
     
    #19
  20. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    4,889
    Location:
    Northern MO
    This is the wrong attitude, imo. When you know where the ball is going to land, you perfect your footwork.

    And the way to get this is to do what? FOOTWORK! :)
     
    #20
  21. MasturB

    MasturB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,939
    5'6 on a good day, 5'5.5 most of the time.
     
    #21
  22. MasturB

    MasturB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,939
    I was doing those techniques before that video was ever published.

    (Not sounding like a know it all, but I have studied quite a bit of tennis in the 4 years I've been playing/following tennis. Have over 200gb worth of match footage on my external, so I've studied a lot more than just the ball going back and forth. It's what has helped me gotten as far as I've gotten and why I'm also teaching tennis).
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2011
    #22
  23. MasturB

    MasturB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,939
    It's not that they didn't mean anything.

    It's just that it was like reading copy and paste.

    I pretty much covered it in my response to your post which I thought was much more thorough (not because you and I were thinking alike, but because you used reasoning to back it up)
     
    #23
  24. MasturB

    MasturB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,939

    Responses in bold.
     
    #24
  25. gino

    gino Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,314
    Where are you playing?

    Looks like a very nice clay court
     
    #25
  26. MasturB

    MasturB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,939
    #26
  27. MasturB

    MasturB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,939
    Club I work at. The Landings Club. We've hosted a Challenger Tourney here the last 2 years.
     
    #27
  28. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    4,889
    Location:
    Northern MO
    ...and your point? He's playing points, not playing against a ball machine. If a ball machine is forcing you to lean back, what hope do you think you'll have being aggressive against actual players.
     
    #28
  29. MasturB

    MasturB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,939
    Playing points? He's jogging out there and light footed. Some of the time he's actually skipping to the ball it looks like.

    They were rallying to keep the ball in play, not playing points. It's almost the same concept as the ball machine. I wasn't trying to perfect some shots on the ball machine. I was using rapid fire to do quick muscle memory in trying to shorten my takeback.
     
    #29
  30. mightyrick

    mightyrick Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
    Messages:
    5,405
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Am I the only person who sees these video posts that say, "Please critique me...", and then you watch the video... and the poster is basically hitting almost like a semi-pro? :)

    It's almost like Jessica Biel or Megan Fox posting a message on an exercise forum saying... "Here's my bod. Feel free to critique."

    Can someone who is actually like a 3.0 or something please post a video, so the rest of us everyman players can have something to truly chew on??? :)
     
    #30
  31. MasturB

    MasturB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,939
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el_y4QqIpNY&feature=channel

    He's hitting off backfoot, sliding away from the ball, leaning back. Where is the forward momentum? How can he possibly be generating such racket head speed without actually lunging towards the net? Oh the horror.

    It's not like I lean back all the time, nor do I purposely try to lean back. Sometimes you can lean back to create a smoother arc with more efficient spin since it changes the plane of your swing and arc.

    In basketball you have a regular jumpshot that you would hit with space, and then you would shoot a fadeaway if you had something impeding you from shooting a regular jumpshot. They're two different shots, but accomplish the same result. The physics and biomechanics are completely different. You essentially are using much more muscles in the fadeaway shot. The same can be said in tennis. It's why modern pros are now prime athletes. You see guys like Nadal and Monfils are very muscular. That's not for show, that's because it's required for them to play the way they do to be able to hit the athletic shots they do. The running backhands nadal hits crosshand with open stances, the half-way split forehands Monfils hits. Federer's forehands look graceful not because they're simple, but because he's using more muscles to create more athleticism and it's all synchronized to create a more perfect picture.

    The studies they did on him said he had what, 28 different follow-through/finishes on his forehand? In order to get to those follow throw and finishes, he had to have had different starting points, and he had to have different stances and positioning. It's about biomechanically adapting to the ball instead of trying to prepare the same way for the ball every time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2011
    #31
  32. MasturB

    MasturB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,939
    LOL I never claimed to be that good, but I have put in a lot of 7-8 hour days the last few years and have a bunch of personal journals critiquing myself and my own mistakes I make. If you really wanna see my older vids from 2007, I'm pretty ashamed. Some balls I stopped 2 inches after contact, some take backs I was basically doing a tilt-a-whirl tornado.
     
    #32
  33. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,304
    I went back and reviewed MasturB's clip, and his footwork patterns are actually correct. The places where it looks like he's hitting off his backfoot is due to him preparing the unit turn right after moving backwards or away from the court. When you do that, most of the time, it'll look like you hop off your outside foot. But still correct. The outside foot generates forward momentum, but the net effect (remember, you're moving backwards) is only slightly forward.

    You still want to start separating the left hand from the racquet prior to arm extension. This will do a number of things, including tighten up the takeback and improve the whippy action on the forward swing.
     
    #33
  34. MasturB

    MasturB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,939
    Responses in bold.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2011
    #34
  35. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,069
    Location:
    Banned
    Everything looks good except the lack of fluidity in your stroke.

    By that, I mean you need to remove that pause between your draw and the stroke itself.
    Seeing that you're citing RF a lot, I'll leave you with this vid to illustrate my point:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el_y4QqIpNY
     
    #35
  36. MasturB

    MasturB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,939
    I know. I was actually going to link that video in this thread as well. As I stated, the takeback is what I was really working on in this video, as previously it was exaggerated too far behind my back. It was almost like a slingshot that wasn't loaded, is how far I took it back and way too early.

    The next thing I'm giong to work on once I get comfortable with the shorter take back, is the timing of the preparation to start the swing.

    I know I still have a lagging delay in between the end of the takeback to the stroke of the ball, because I'm preparing just a bit too early. That will definitely be my focus once I get the takeback thing down. Once I can get everything synchronized and the timing down, it will begin to look much more fluid.

    Thanks.
     
    #36
  37. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,304
    It's due to the unit turn is set. It's common for people to extend their left hand (while still holding the racquet) in order to turn the torso and execute the unit turn. Sometimes, it's taught that way. However, this is actually not ideal for a WW swing.

    The motion loads your arm to create a big loop, and it's optimized for an over-the-shoulder finish.

    Sometimes, it can cause the left side of your obliques to stretch excessively and tilt to the right relative to the pelvis. Because it's a stretch (i.e. "load"), the torso wants to snap back, straight up when you swing forward. However, that also means your contact point will shift to the left. The left hand compensates to maintain that lean, but in turn that causes your left hand to "obstruct" a little when swinging forward.

    The basic idea is to separate your hand from the racquet "early." That is, before the left arm extends, you already want it to start separating from the racquet. The momentum that you create from the outside foot will work as counterbalance with the left hand to continue turning the pelvis and complete the unit turn. The timing and directional control also improve.
     
    #37
  38. ReopeningWed

    ReopeningWed Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2009
    Messages:
    700
    Location:
    Bay Area
    I don't think your shirt is tight enough.
     
    #38
  39. DavaiMarat

    DavaiMarat Professional

    Joined:
    May 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,185
    Hehe. The bigger muscles are your core, hip loading, widening your athletic base. The arm in my opinion is loose and whippy, yours seems a little forced. Your choice to hit off the backfoot knowing exactly where the ball is landing is puzzling, yet your not the 1st to copy something without quite knowing how and when it should be used. You'll learn, as you said it's only your 4 th year.

    But whatever works for you. The best online website I've ever come across is hi-tech tennis.com. Sign up for a month trial. On a pure technical basis it's the best bang for your buck.
     
    #39
  40. chico9166

    chico9166 Guest

    Geez, alot of micromanaging going on here for such a developed stroke, what 3 years in? You are doing a lot of things well. A lot. I wouldn't change much. You might need to turn on the ball (forward) just a little earlier (in relationship to the arm progression) to eliminate the slight hitch, in the transition. The arm is stalling a bit, at the bottom.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2011
    #40
  41. forthegame

    forthegame Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    3,630
    Location:
    Intercontinental
    #41
  42. chico9166

    chico9166 Guest

    Watch the above video of Fed. Notice how the hips/torso are starting to unwind, even as the racquet is being laid down in the loop. This makes for a smooth, continuous, transition from downswing to forward swing.
     
    #42
  43. gameboy

    gameboy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,620
    If you are such an expert after 4 whole years, why are you even bothering to ask for comments on this board? It is obvious that you are not welcoming any input...

    If you are just here to get admirers, I have seen better.
     
    #43
  44. Ajtat411

    Ajtat411 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Messages:
    591
    OP- I haven't been here that long but the general way it goes when a video is posted is that everyone will be commenting from people that know nothing about proper tennis technique to people who know a lot about proper technique.

    If you intent is to just show off your powerful strokes and boast then you will get alot of flack since nobody likes a showoff.

    If you truely intend to learn something new on this forum, then you have to learn to ignore the useless feedback and focus on the responses that are reasonable for your stroke and goals.

    Responding in a defensive manner will only **** people off and serve to feed the trolls, if there are any around.

    Looks like you know where you need to improve and have a coach so I can't really say much that you don't already know.
     
    #44
  45. MasturB

    MasturB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,939
    Um, yeah I haven't really posted a video here in about 2 years.

    I'm asking for comments because I'm curious to see what others have to say. The best observers base their opinions from a collective gathering of other opinions/details and then pick apart from there and decide what's best to do for them. The best teachers are usually the best observers. The best baseball coaches were never really the best athletes, they had to study the game harder to stay afloat and learn other things instead of relying on raw ability. My goal isn't really to play outstanding, it's actually to be a fine tennis instructor. However, I'm using myself almost like a guinea pig. If I can coach myself and teach myself the game and be successful, then I can definitely teach and coach someone else. I don't record myself that often, but I can feel when I'm doing something wrong on the court without being able to watch myself. When I watch others, I can instantly notice what they're doing wrong and correct them.

    I'm not here to show off, so you can go find someone else who's infatuated with themselves. Just because I disagree with some of the comments doesn't mean I don't accept them, it just means I disagree. Sorry if I'm hurting your feelings.
     
    #45
  46. MasturB

    MasturB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,939
    Responses in bold.
     
    #46
  47. MasturB

    MasturB Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,939
    I agree. He didn't hit off his backfoot in that video, but rather spun off his front foot.

    So that's why his upper body swing mechanics were altered, to adjust to the lower body's stance. Great video though.
     
    #47
  48. Ajtat411

    Ajtat411 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Messages:
    591
    My bad, I just assumed the old guy at the end of the video was your coach. It looked like he was about to say something to you at the end. :) Either that or he was trying to steal a hit from your ball machine. haha
     
    #48
  49. Frankauc

    Frankauc Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2008
    Messages:
    949
    not bad but you are forcing the shots and it results in a lot of balls in the net. I counted 6 out of 27 in the net. If you add some balls going long or on the sides (witch we cant view in the vid), that doesnt translate in good consistency......And thats very important if you wanna be a good player
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2011
    #49
  50. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    Messages:
    14,617
    Location:
    Roswell GA
    This is easy. Just swing the human racquet and not the graphite one! ;)
     
    #50

Share This Page