Foreigners in College Tennis

Discussion in 'College Tennis Talk' started by tennis5, May 3, 2012.

  1. TennisFan2Day

    TennisFan2Day Rookie

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    21 Louisiana State University
    6 foreign players on the team
    5 out of 6 starters are foreign players (83%)
    Roger Anderson - Coppell, Texas
    *Olivier Borsos - Budapest, Hungary
    Mark Bowtell - County Wicklow, Ireland
    Joe Hill - Missouri City, Texas
    *Tom Knights - London, England
    John Michaelis - Covington, La.
    *David Roberts - Lafayette, La.
    *Chris Simpson - Derby, England
    *Neal Skupski - Liverpool, England
    Will Suk - Raleigh, N.C.
    *Stefan Szacinski - Adelaide, Australia
    Will Topham - San Francisco, Calif.
    James Turbervill - Bristol, U.K.
    Matt Zachary - Bossier City, La.

    22 University of Michigan
    2 foreign players on the team
    2 out of 6 starters are foreign players (33%)
    *Shaun Bernstein - Plainview, N.Y.
    *Eli Brown - Toronto, Ontario
    Alex Buzzi - Key Biscayne, Fla.
    *Barrett Franks - Christchurch, New Zealand
    *Evan King - Chicago, Ill.
    *Alex Petrone - Staten Island, N.Y.
    Justin Rossi - Novi, Mich.
    *Michael Zhu - Princeton, N.J.

    23 Harvard University
    2 foreign players on the team
    0 out of 6 starters are foreign players (0%)
    *Shaun Chaudhuri - Pleasanton, Calif.
    Alistair Felton - Somerset, England
    Casey MacMaster - Fort Collins, Colo.
    Davis Mangham - Seattle, Wash.
    Mac McAnulty - Chicago, Ill.
    Andy Nguyen - Phoenix, Ariz.
    *Denis Nguyen - Anaheim, Calif.
    Brandon Parker - Las Vegas, Nev.
    *Jonathan Pearlman - Palm Beach, Fla.
    *Christo Schultz - Sudbury, Mass.
    Brendan Seaver - New Canaan, Conn.
    *Henry Steer -Bernardsville, N.J.
    *Alex Steinroeder - Concord, Mass.
    Joshua Tchan - Woodland Hills, Calif.
    John Thornton - London, England

    24 University of Illinois
    3 foreign players on the team
    3 out of 6 starters are foreign players (50%)
    *Bruno Abdelnour - Aleppo, Syria
    *Farris Gosea - Cardiff, Wales, UK
    Ross Guignon - Prairie Village, Kan.
    *Stephen Hoh - Eaglemont, Victoria, Australia
    *Roy Kalmanovich - Framingham, Mass.
    *Tim Kopinski - Palos Hills, Ill.
    *Dennis Nevolo - Gurnee, Ill.

    25 University of San Diego
    5 foreign players on the team
    5 out of 6 starters are foreign players (83%)
    *Nikola Bubnic - Belgrade, Serbia
    Andrew Carlisle - Portola Valley, CA
    *Ciaran Fitzgerald - Greystones, Ireland
    Emilio Mora - Mamaroneck, N.Y.
    *Patrick Pohlmann - Cologne, Germany
    *Victor Pugliese - Boulogne-Billancourt, France
    Andrew Raphaelson - Las Vegas, NV
    *Clarke Spinosa - Claremont, Calif.
    Garrett Taylor - Monte Sereno, CA
    *Thibaut Visy - Reims, France

    26 University of Washington
    2 foreign players on the team
    2 out of 6 starters are foreign players (33%)
    *Marton Bots - Budapest, Hungary
    *Emmett Egger - Issaquah, Wash.
    *Viktor Farkas - Bratislava, Slovakia
    Jeff Hawke - Rolling Hills Estates, Calif.
    *Nicholas Kamisar - Sammamish, Wash.
    *Max Manthou - Tacoma, Wash.
    *Kyle McMorrow - Thousand Oaks, Calif.
    Dragos Puscalau - Newcastle, Wash.
    Matt Stith - Santa Barbara, Calif.
    Skyler Tateishi - Bellevue, Wash.

    27 Indiana University-Bloomington
    6 foreign players on the team
    4 out of 6 starters are foreign players (67%)
    Barnes, Alastair - Bournemouth, England
    Gilmore, Stratton - Madison, Wis.
    *Juneau, Isade - Repentigny, Quebec
    *Kendall, Will - Short Hills, N.J.
    *Langer, Jeremy - Toronto, Canada
    *MacTaggart, Josh - Barnston, U.K.
    Montibeller, Jose Carlos - Irapuato, Mexico
    *Tasic, Dimitrije - Nis, Serbia
    *Vogl, Stephen - Stamford, Conn.

    28 Baylor University
    7 foreign players on the team (78%)
    6 out of 6 starters are foreign players (100%)
    Lars Behlen - Munster, Germany
    *Julian Bley - Veitshoechheim, Germany
    *Diego Galeano - Asuncion, Paraguay
    *Kike Grangeiro - Brazilia, Brazil
    Robbie Korth - Del Ray Beach, Fla.
    *Marko Krickovic - Ismaning, Germany
    *Roberto Maytin - Valencia, Venezuela
    Robert Verzaal - Shreveport, La.
    *Mate Zsiga - Szeged, Hungary

    29 University of Notre Dame
    1 foreign players on the team
    1 out of 6 starters are foreign players (17%)
    *Greg Andrews - Richland, MI
    Ryan Bandy - Cincinnati, OH
    Dougie Barnard - Indianapolis, IN
    Daven Brodess - Austin, TX
    Matt Dooley - New Braunfels, TX
    *Niall Fitzgerald - Wicklow, Ireland
    Michael Fredericka -R Warren, OH
    *Sam Keeton - Kansas City, MO
    Wyatt McCoy - Shoreview, MN
    Michael Moore - Glenview, IL
    *Blas Moros - Boca Raton, FL
    *Billy Pecor - Scottsdale, AZ
    Spencer Talmadge - Hillsborough, CA
    *Casey Watt - Gibsonia, PA

    30 Florida State University
    5 foreign players on the team
    4 out of 6 starters are foreign players (66%)
    Brian Alden - Barrington, Ill.
    *Andres Bucaro - Guatemala City, Guatemala
    Dominic Cotrone - Bradenton, Fla.
    *Blake Davis - Austin, Texas
    João Gauer - Parana, Brazil
    *Cristian Gonzalez Mendez - Santiago de Compostela, Spain
    *Jordan Kelly-Houston - Christchurch, New Zealand
    *Benjamin Lock - Harare, Zimbabwe
    Anderson Reed - Daphne, Ala.
    *Jason Zafiros - Bradenton, Fla.
     
  2. TennisFan2Day

    TennisFan2Day Rookie

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    31 Virginia Commonwealth University
    8 foreign players on the team (89%)
    6 out of 6 starters are foreign players (100%)
    *Alejandro Argente - Castellon, Spain
    *Antoine Baroz - Geneva, Switzerland
    *Alexis Heugas - Jurancon, France
    Camill Salomon - Limoges, France
    Rui Silva - Portugal
    Andrew James Stuart - Scottsdale, Ariz.
    *Filip Svensson - Angelholm, Sweden
    *Jaime Vazquez - La Coruna, Spain
    *Max Wennakoski - Helsinki, Finland

    32 University of Memphis
    8 foreign players on the team (73%)
    6 out of 6 starters are foreign players (100%)
    De Zutter, Cedric - Eeklo, Belgium
    Glavin, Darragh - Newbridge Town, Ireland
    *Glennon, Connor - Loughborough, England
    Griffin, K.C. - Millington, Tenn.
    *Grimal, Johnny - Barcelona, Spain
    Henry, David - Signal Mountain, Tenn.
    *Nasemann, Leon - Wuppertahl, Germany
    *O'Hare, David - Dublin, Ireland
    *O'Leary, David - Coventry, England
    *Salisbury, Joe - London, England
    Shidler, Daniel - Southaven, Miss.

    33 Fresno State
    5 foreign players on the team (63%)
    4 out of 6 starters are foreign players (66%)
    *Francis Alcantara - Cagayan de Oro City,PI
    *David Ayoun - Creteil, France
    *Remi Boutillier - Briancon, France
    *Reid deLaubenfels - Seattle, Wash.
    *Jean-Charles Diame - St. Jean des Nauvrets, France
    Sai Kartik Nakireddi - Vishakhapatnam, Andhra Pradesh
    *Zachary Leslie - San Diego, Calif.
    Jeremy Quiroz - Bakersfield, Calif.

    34 Texas A&M University
    3 foreign players on the team
    2 out of 6 starters are foreign players (33%)
    *Niall Angus - London, England
    Alberto Bautista - McAllen, Texas
    *Jeremy Efferding - Boca Roton, Fla.
    *Colin Hoover - Victoria, Texas
    *Alexis Klegou - Dunkerque, France
    *John Lewis - Birmingham, Ala.
    Behzad Minavi - Houston, Texas
    *Junior Ore - Gaithersburg, MD
    Jordan Szabo - Baywater, Victoria, Australia
    Jackson Withrow - Omaha, Neb.

    35 Santa Clara University
    5 foreign players on the team (63%)
    3 out of 6 starters are foreign players (50%)
    Maxime Armengaud - Nice, France
    *Kyle Dandan - Paranaque, Manila, Philippines
    Kyohhei Kamono - Chiba, Japan
    *John Lamble - Saratoga, Calif.
    *Eugene Muchynski - San Jose, Calif.
    *Ilya Osintsev - Novosibirsk, Russia
    *Tom Pham - San Diego, Calif.
    *Nicolas Vinel - Joinville, France

    36 University of Minnesota
    5 foreign players on the team
    4 out of 6 starters are foreign players (66%)
    *Arndt, Phillip - Lancaster, Ky.
    *Bonin, Rok - Koper, Slovenia
    *Dehn, Julian - Traben-Trabach, Germany
    *Froment, Mathieu - Longwy, France
    Frueh, Eric - Rochester, Minn.
    *Hamburg, Jack - Rapid City, S.D.
    Ramirez, Juan Pablo - Bogota, Colombia
    Ruddock, Brendan - Ronkonkoma, N.Y.
    Saxon, Tucker - Dellwood, Minn.
    Sicora, Michael - Buffalo, Minn.
    *Toledo, Leandro - Hamburg, Germany

    37 University of Louisville
    6 foreign players on the team
    2 out of 6 starters are foreign players (33%)
    *Andrew Carter - Summerfield, N.C.
    Van Damrongsri - Ellicott City, Md.
    Amaury Derognat - Peronnas, France
    Adam Donaldson - New York, N.Y.
    *Luis Elizondo - Weston, Fla.
    Sumit-Prakash Gupta - Etwah, India
    *Robert Hall - Bowling Green, Ky.
    Jonathan Kuhn - Guatemala City, Guatemala
    *Michael Lippens - West Long Branch, N.J.
    Bradley Merchant - Lexington, Ky.
    Ross Nigro - Coral Gables, Fla.
    Chris Simich - Auckland, New Zealand
    *Sebastian Stiefelmeyer - Vienna, Austria
    *Albert Wagner - Amberg, Germany

    38 Boise State University
    5 foreign players on the team
    5 out of 6 starters are foreign players (83%)
    *Bettles, Andrew - Somerset, England
    *Hume, Damian - Johannesburg, South Africa
    *Meredith, James - Christchurch, New Zealand
    Patton, Garrett - Boise, Idaho
    *Pogostkin, Filipp - Bellevue, Wash.
    Reid, Aidan - Monument, Colo.
    *Sears, Scott - London, England
    *Sereke, Nathan - Stockholm, Sweden
    Sheldon, Erik - Phoenix, Ariz.
    Walsh, Freddy - Bellevue, Wash.

    39 North Carolina State
    7 foreign players on the team
    3 out of 6 starters are foreign players (50%)
    Beck Bond - Meriden, Conn.
    Akash Gujarati - Pune, India
    *Dominic Hodgson - London, U.K.
    *Robbie Mudge - Mooresville, N.C.
    Rafael Paez - Atibaia, Brazil
    *Austin Powell -Muscle Shoals, Ala.
    *Jaime Pulgar - Madrid, Spain
    Will Rollinson - Raleigh, N.C.
    Ivan Sanchez Gomez - Madrid, Spain
    *Julian Sullivan - Philadelphia, Pa.
    *Dave Thomson - Hatfield, Hertfordshire, U.K.
    Matt Thomson - Hatfield, Hertfordshire, U.K.
    Sean Weber - Raleigh, N.C.

    40 Vanderbilt University
    0 foreign players on the team (0%)
    0 out of 6 starters are foreign players (0%)
    *Gonzales Austin - Miami, Fla.
    *Blake Bazarnik - Kildeer, Ill.
    *Alex DiValerio - Malvern, Pa.
    Joe Dorn - Washington, D.C.
    Suresh Eswaran - Sacramento, Calif.
    *Charlie Jones - Destrehan, La.
    *Anton Kovrigin - Rockville, Md.
    Ryan Lipman - Nashville, Tenn.
    *Jeff Offerdahl - Austin, Texas
    Michael Retta - Annadale, Va.
     
  3. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Another nice sample. Thanks. The real travesty is Vandy. They have so many good Americans how does anyone expect to compete with that?
     
  4. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    TennisFan2Day,

    Thanks for posting such a comprehensive survey.
    Hope it is ok, I will be copying and sending out via email.
    Many folks would like to see this data, but don't read Talk Tennis.
     
  5. hound 109

    hound 109 Rookie

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    Are you saying that black american tennis players don't want to attend black colleges?

    Are you saying that there are no black 4 star or 5 star kids?

    Are you saying that there's been a black college who has recruited an american who isn't black (& the non-black american refused the scholarship?)?

    What are you saying?

    .
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2012
  6. hound 109

    hound 109 Rookie

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    Of course low 4 star & 3 star kids should be "interested" in this topic. With 200+ colleges, all 3 star kids would get scholarships if 50-60% weren't being offered to non american kids (many who are 1-2 years older).

    & I know over a dozen parents of 5 star & "top half" 4 star kids who think current "status quo" is nuts. The fact that over 50% of all scholarships are going to non-americans (who are 1-2 years older) is a joke to virtually all parents of juniors that i know. & the schools that have chosen to have 70% of their teams non-american are jokes as well.
     
  7. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    a black 4 or 5 start is likely to go to a better destination than Alcorn State.
     
  8. SoCal10s

    SoCal10s Hall of Fame

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  9. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Harvards singles starters all all US born, but their #1 doubles team had Alistar Felton from England yesterday. He is a beast.
     
  10. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    I've got no problem with the current system of recruiting tennis players according to perceived ability to help the team, regardless of nationality.

    But so many others here do! Even doing copious research on Mothers' Day! It seems the two sides on the board will never find common ground.

    What about some other kind of limitation then, to give little Johnny and Janie a better chance? I've got it. Wealth.

    Why should tennis scholarships go to the rich or well-off? They need them less than kids of working stiffs. Just because the rich kids' parents were able to pay for fancy lessons and academies and faraway tournaments doesn't make rich kids more worthy of a free education than working class kids. Rich kids have the same control over being rich as they do about their nationality, so I expect this would go over pretty well here.

    We can debate whether the limit should be $100,000 annual income and $500,000 in assets, or $250k/$1 million. For sure, any kid that goes to private secondary school would automatically be excluded. No scholy for you!

    This standard could apply internationally, so the new criterion for recruiting tennis players would no longer be ability, and it would not be nationality....it would be wealth. If anyone wants to do a self-interest poll, I'm guessing this one gets 99% in favor.

    Or since we would be doing away with ability as the measuring stick, we could set limitations by height. Why should the tall kids get roster spots while the short kids work just as hard. Or weight............heck just look at wrestling, they have weight classes!!!!

    I think there are lots of alternative standards, besides nationality, for those who propose that college tennis rosters should be based on criteria other than ability.
     
  11. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Or we could not let people over 6'2" play college tennis. They are just too tall and it's not fair to those that are shorter...
     
  12. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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  13. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    yea, why didn't Jarmere Jenkins go to an HBCU?
     
  14. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    Oh heck, you are right. I have seen the light. After all, the point of college tennis is to have the most competitive environment possible in order to create the best possible American players, so I recommend these changes.

    1. Eliminate the requirement that the kids have to attend classes. It really interferes with their tennis.
    2. Eliminate the restriction against professional players - this way the few American blue chips who do get in will have really good competition.
    3. Eliminate any age restrictions, this way the few American blue chips who do get in will have to face really experienced competition and this will make them better players.
    4. Give them prize money for winning matches, and allow them to take money from sponsors, this way they won't have to have part time jobs, which would interfere with their practice.
    5. Eliminate women's tennis becuase they are not as good as the men anyhow.
    6. Now that i think about it, might as well eliminate division II while we are at it, because the only thing that matters is winning NCAA I Mens. We can keep DIV III though becuase they don't get scholarships and nobody cares about them anyhow.
    7. Have them travel all over the world to hold there matches becuase diversity and meeting foreign people is important.
    8. Only blue ships and five stars should get scholarships, becuase if you are not a five star or blue chip by seventeen, you are never going to be the next Pete Sampras, so you don't belong in college tennis anyhow.


    I think it is a shame this thread got moved from junior tennis to college tennis, becuase as soon as it gets into college tennis, it seems everyone thinks the discussions is about the top BCS Men's programs which probably account for only 5% of the total tennis scholarships.
     
  15. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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  16. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    Thanks Tennis5.

    My feedback though.

    1. To do an accurate survey, I don't think all the data is readily publicly available. First, you can't tell (definitively, although you can guess) who is on scholarship and who is walk on.
    2. There are approximately three times more women's scholarships then there are men's scholarships, and almost as many Div II scholarships then there are DIV I scholarships. Div II women's undoubtedly has the highest percentage of internationals.

    I think when you started this in the Junior tennis forum you didnt mean it to be limited to top DIV I mens programs. Certnl the original news article you posted was not.
     
  17. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    And they shouldn't let left handed people play college tennis either. Ther is too much advantage for them to be able to put a different spin on the ball. It really Isnt fair that they can practice against so many right handlers, but right handlers can't practice as much against lefties.
     
  18. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    or people from Florida, with all that nice weather they have too much time to practice.
     
  19. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Yea, totally unfair
     
  20. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Yea I hear you. Rules aside, the University of Nebraska Omaha and Creighton are on a completely level playing field when competing against the likes of Cal Santa Barbara and Pepperdine.

    Also, I'm for raising the bar in college tennis that include internationals. Americans who really want to play college tennis can find scholarship opportunities if they are open minded to investigating multiple options for possible schools. I'm not for dumbing down the game to bring it to the level of today's American players. If you're not good enough for BCS D1 tennis, look for a school where you are a fit. If you're not good enough for mid-major D1 look for low D1, if you're not good enough for D1 look at DII or NAIA options. DIII, although no scholarships are offered finds a wide range of play from very low level to very high. There's also Junior Colleges looking for local talent. Remember, new JUCO rules for 2012 is no more than 2 internationals per team. For those that want only American's on their college teams you can play JUCO in Missisippi and see how rewarding that experience is now without the internationals.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2012
  21. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Living in Florida could also be viewed as a detriment. Too much play means too much wear and tear on the body ;)
     
  22. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Ok, then...only players from Florida can play college tennis. The rest have to take their healthy bodies straight to the tour.
     
  23. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    This recruiting process is just like a job interview. College coaches receive thousands of resumes from student athletes from all over the world. The college coaches are going to hire who they feel is the best candidate for the job. Often, the international athletes out- interview the American athletes by reaching out to coaches and players with more anticipation and by building better relationships with them.

    As far as speaking English is concerned, the international athletes all have to take the SAT and TOEFL. This means that English is set at a certain standard for all students. They also tend to do very well academically once they are at American universities. Being American or international does not benefit the student/athletes, how they interview will be the deciding factor whether they are chosen or not versus another athlete with similar abilities.


    Those aren't my words. That's Ross Greenstein of Scholarships for Athletes speaking. You can find the entire interview at the link posted by tennisconsultcom in the Junior forum, "How to get a scholarship" thread.

    http://www.tennisconsult.com/choosing-college-tennis-player/

    Silly Ross Greenstein. If he had read some of the posts (by others) in these threads, he would have learned that coaches select foreign players by soliciting bribes........and get them by offering 4-year scholarships!
     
  24. gully

    gully Semi-Pro

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    ^^
    Mr. G runs a good business and my family has benefited from his often freely-given, generous expertise. However, I do think it's worth asking "who benefits from" this business model of the "three-year interview."

    One answer to that question is companies like SFA. The longer, the more complex, and the more international the process is, the greater the likelihood is that his services will be needed. So they help perpetuate the notion that recruiting "must be" like a three-year job search, in fact leading every interview they post on TRN with a version of that question.

    BTW, that link to the article on the similar operation run in the UK by Sarah Borwell is good reading. American players and their parents should know that they are competing for scholarships with players -- and, essentially, their agents -- across the world.

    Whether or not that's a good thing.
     
  25. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    Dear Misterbill,
    Tennis recruiting process is not like a job interview. As you probably know US job market is protected to a large extent. When you go for a job interview here you are mostly not competing with the whole world. Because if they had to the majority of US Citizen would lose because they are too old, too young, do not have enough skills, wrong gender, too lazy, etc. I do not know what you do for a living but I am sure they can easily find somebody among 6 Billion people who can do your job better for less pay and this person will not even post on TT during working hours. So I do not see it as normal that our US kids have to compete with the whole world for the right to play tennis in US college. Tennis after all is just an EC. And I do not see it as normal that parents have to yank their kids from the regular school and make them train twice a day so that they could play tennis in college. And this is where things are going. You can have couple of conferences that will be breeding grounds for future pros and they can benefit from the top foreign competition but the rest of college tennis should be for regular kids who value education and not looking to become tennis pros.
     
  26. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    Ha ha.

    Klu, talk to Ross Greenstein, not me. Those are his words. Brought to us by our fellow poster tennisconsultcom. Maybe you can talk to tennisconsultcom too

    What do I do for a living? I'm unemployed. Got laid off from my job putting those little stickers on apples and pears. Great gig while it lasted!

    But thanks for the info
     
  27. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    I think you repeatedly supported the idea that pure meritocracy and open competition was a great thing. No point to talk to Ross - he is probably OK with the status quo. If not he will let us know during his next TR.NET interview.
    I suspect your job got outsourced - pears are now arriving with the stickers attached.
     
  28. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    See bold inserts above
     
  29. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Have you been in a hospital lately? Not too many US born doctors anymore. Foreigners might not be traveling to the US to interview for entry level sales jobs that pay no relocation, but they certainly are for expert skill jobs and high level executive positions. Head hunters, like coaches, will find the best people in the world for those roles.
     
  30. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    You've just scratched the surface on problems that are far more serious to this country. Employment, trade deficits, foreign purchase of U.S. debt, terrorism, bailouts etc. take up far more attention then the very small percentage of athletes that happen to play college tennis.
     
  31. 10ismom

    10ismom Semi-Pro

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    Part of the reasons for that is higher education costs a lot more in the US compared to many countries.
    You could find more MD, engineering degrees per capita in many other countries. They are willing to work for US companies from their home countries or willing to come work in the US .
    Many US citizens wanting to be a doctor or a vet have to go get their affordable degrees elsewhere. I have seen some from the caribbean schools, Canada, etc.

    If things are not changing, think about it....high paying jobs are for non-US citizens. Lower paying jobs for US born ?
     
  32. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Yes, 10ismom, as andfor stated...we are just scratching the surface of the political problems in the US. Tennis isn't the only thing that we aren't as good at anymore.
     
  33. Gatorluver

    Gatorluver New User

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    This argument about foreign players gets old. However, I do know if your American kid wants to play tennis at a top US
    college, you better yank them out of middle school and sign them up for a full time tennis academy ASAP. It's the only way they will be competitive with the 20 year old foreign kids our top US coaches favor.
     
  34. lstewart

    lstewart Rookie

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    One issue I've noticed in men's tennis related to this topic is the number of schools that no longer have a men's program. I played NAIA tennis in the late 1970's for a good program. We had a couple of South American players, but got alot of out talent from Texas. At that point just about every school fielded men's tennis, and I played many, many, many foreign players. Now most of those schools no longer offer men's tennis, including the school I played for. I think it was due to budget cuts with the increasing expenses of fielding all the required women's sports, and offsetting all the money spent on football. Now i have a ranked 16 year old son, and he is interested in playing in college. Of course there are still many international players, but also many fewer schools offering programs for him to consider. My older son was a college golfer, and he had many more programs to consider. I assume this may be the case across the US, with many smaller public colleges no longer offering men's tennis.
     
  35. gully

    gully Semi-Pro

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    I have some NCAA statistics on men's tennis participation from three data points: 1981-82, 2004-05, and 2009-10 (most recent available).

    Men's Tennis, 1981-82: 690 teams overall (267 D1); 7,340 participants (2,884 D1)
    Men's Tennis, 2004-05: 742 teams overall (265 D1); 7,386 participants (2,613 D1)
    Men’s Tennis, 2009-10: 738 teams overall (258 D1); 7,894 participants (2,644 D1)

    I don't know if men's tennis participation in NAIA has been similar or not, but in NCAA's three divisions, it has remained pretty static, with the number of teams and participants both increasing.
     
  36. gully

    gully Semi-Pro

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    Sorry, I can't find NAIA participation statistics. As far as the NCAA goes, there are as many teams and positions available in tennis as there were three decades ago. That may or may not be true of the NAIA. I'd love to see the numbers if anyone can dig them up. (I'm an old NAIA guy from 81-82 myself!)
     
  37. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Nafta.... But, then again this is a tennis site.
     
  38. gameboy

    gameboy Hall of Fame

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    Over 2.5 million H-1B visas handed out over the last decade says you are are wrong.

    The only reason there aren't more is because it is expensive to get those foreign workers relocated. Which is also the reason why foreign outsourcing is so popular.

    Don't think you are not competing against those workers in China and engineers in Germany. Because you are.
     
  39. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    US Population 1980: 227,224,681
    US Population 2010: 308,745,538

    I think there are more people fighting for those spots now than there was in 1980. That point I concede to the anti-foreigner movement.
     
  40. Delano

    Delano Rookie

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    I think the problem isn't so much that demand for college scholarships has grown as it is that the supply hasn't kept pace. A huge number of international students are now interested in college scholarships that simply aren't available internationally. So there's only one place to go - the US. Unless the US vastly expands the number of college tennis scholarships, or universities overseas start offering tennis scholarships in large numbers, some Americans who would have had a scholarship in the past will no longer have that opportunity. I'm all for efforts to raise the level of tennis in the US, but I can't see how even a very successful effort would have more than a minor effect on these numbers.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2012
  41. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    So, it's not that the demand has grown...just that more internationals are now seeking them? Wtf?
     
  42. doubleshack

    doubleshack New User

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    It's not just tennis....I know a kid who was born and raised in the US. In his first semester at college, he got some poor grades and was not allowed to come back second semester. Yet, this kid from another country who got good grades was allowed to come back, and is now taking a spot that could have been filled by an American. When will the madness end...
     
  43. tennismom42

    tennismom42 Semi-Pro

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    Analogy: Stocked Fishing Pond

    Here's an analogy:

    Sometimes I liked to go fishing in a place that has two stocked fishing ponds. Both ponds are equal size and quality. The owner doesn't care what I catch, so long as I put it on the scale and pay for it. In other words, I pay the same $$$$ amount for every pound of fish meat I catch.

    One pond is stocked with the big fish -- these are considered "trophy fish."
    The other pond is stocked with regular, legal-sized fish and they are a about 50% the size of the trophy fish. (Comparison: International recruits = trophy, while USA = regular)

    (Int'l recruits):
    Initially, I wanted to catch big trophy fish. I had my picture taken with it & I verbally bragged about it. It made a good story. But it was costly and I was back in the car quickly.

    (USA recruits):
    Then I started fishing in the regular-fish pond. Now I could catch twice as many fish, the string of fish makes a nice picture too, and Wow, do they ever put up a big fight! I fish more often, longer and I bring friends.

    Hmmmm....Now think tennis recruiting

    I just think that if you stock the pond with big fish, you're going to get a big fish (in the round of 16). I think the coaches need to stop ogling for the international recruits that the CANNOT even watch play in person, before recruiting.


    Also, it's USA tennis in the USA. Keep in mind that International parents, family and friends are less likely to travel to the USA to watch and support their child's college tennis matches. Whereas, family and friends of USA recruits are more apt and able to attend, support and cheer for USA.
     
  44. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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    .......................
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
  45. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Some call it "support and cheer". Others refer to it as "whining to the coaches". US Parents not being at practice, matches, road trips, etc is more likely a reason to recruit internationally where the coach is less likely to have to listen to the nonsense.
     
  46. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    Amen.

    I think I posted it before. Two equal players, one with "one of those parents" from the area, and the other from far away.............far away player gets chosen every time.

    Interesting observation a couple of posts ago that training in college to go to the pros = no support after graduation for the school. Wonder how that conclusion was arrived at.

    Anyway, my small slice of experience tells me that the few colleges I am familiar with are very happy when their athletes turn pro...........even if they get zero cash donations from any particular pro later.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2012
  47. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    OK. Let's adopt, for the sake of argument, your criterion for granting tennis scholarships: the "intention of contributing anything back to the to the school, state, country, etc., when they are done."

    Woo-hoo for the rich. They pay more taxes and have more disposable income for donations to their alma maters. This criterion will help the 1%.

    Any of you with kids recently graduated from college, in college, or about to go to college.............try asking them what their intentions are for donating to their school. See how much of a clue they have about their intentions

    It is a little ironic to me that foreigners who come to the US for college and then leave are criticized for not staying to pay taxes..............and the ones who do stay are criticized for taking away Amurrrrican jobs!
     
  48. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    Maybe this is your experience. It is not mine.

    At all the college tennis matches I have attended, family, friends, and just plain ol' fans are rooting for the individual or the team.

    I have never been to [any] college athletic event where people are rooting for "USA".

    If I were a player or a coach on a college team in any sport, with one or more international players, and a fan........never mind a family member.....was rooting for USA, I would consider that an insult to the team and boorish behavior. I'd feel embarrassed for any player on the team whose parents were doing something like this
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2012
  49. JLyon

    JLyon Hall of Fame

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    I agree I know firsthand at the CUSA Women's Tournament there were several players from overseas who had parents or relatives on site watching and the players and fans cheered for their team not whether a player was American or not.
     
  50. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    OFF-TOPIC WARNING: In CUSA it's all Tulsa and Rice on the women's side, right? Anyone else even close? Memphis?

    (On-topic token comment.......Rice has a hot-shot British frosh apparently)
     

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