gamma fixed clamp problem

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by Charleyk24, Apr 14, 2012.

  1. Charleyk24

    Charleyk24 New User

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    #1
  2. Squidward

    Squidward Rookie

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    Contact the dealer/mrg. They should make it right if this is a new stringer.
     
    #2
  3. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    i would wait for someone like Irvin to see this, because I believe even fixed clamps have some give in them so that may be normal.
     
    #3
  4. Faithfulfather

    Faithfulfather Rookie

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    It will move less when there are other strings there to support it. I have a X-6 FC with a Wise head and my clampls move just a little less. I have never tried it the way you are doing it in the video. There are some locking nuts size 17mm under the base that you can tighten LIGHTLY.
     
    #4
  5. ATP100

    ATP100 Professional

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    That is normal.
     
    #5
  6. monomer

    monomer Rookie

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    If you contact Gamma hopefully you have better luck than I did. I called them and briefly spoke to someone about a problem on my 6004. I was told to leave a voice mail with a tech. detailing the problem. He never returned my call.

    Disappointing on a $1000+ machine that is a few months old.
     
    #6
  7. 4sound

    4sound Semi-Pro

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    I think that looks like a normal amount of float. All machines have a little bit of float.

    When I had a Progression II, it had a little more float than on my current machine (6004) but it's very consistent. When I first got the 6004 I was getting more float on one side. You can adjust the base clamp to be a little tighter. You have to make sure you don't over tighten or your base will get damaged.

    On the Progression II, I believe, the bolt under the base on the clamp is what you need to adjust, but check the manual.
     
    #7
  8. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    Granted most machines have some drawback but this seems an excessive amount.The amount that the base is moving would account for a decent amount of tension loss, and it looks like there is more loss on some angled pulls, depending on the angle to the base, so this would give inconsistant results.Drawback is usually just a very slight if any movement between the clamp and base, as this looks like the whole base clamp section is flexing, and it seems to flex more in certain directions, not good. It even looks like the base clamp moves up away from the table itself, and that should not happen.

    Your problem looks more than just drawback, as it is moving a good deal. I would find it hard to believe that this amount of drawback is normal. You should e-mail Gamma and show them your video. If they say thats the normal drawback then I would ask for a different machine model that they would know would be less.Maybe its just tightening the base down a little more so the movement is less. I would try that 1st, and if still persistant the same amount I would contact Gamma.

    I would like to know what the new Gamma Tech would say about this one.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2012
    #8
  9. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I agree with 'Jim e' that is an excessive amount of movement. I would think that your base is not adjusted correctly and needs to be tightened. Your lever appear to be turned almost all the way around to the post. Mine does not go that far but I have a different clamp that you do.
     
    #9
  10. Charleyk24

    Charleyk24 New User

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    Thank you for your advice
    I still communicate John with gamma sports
    Hopefully I will get good result

    Thanks again
     
    #10
  11. jmpsmash

    jmpsmash New User

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    that's a inherent problem with the Gamma design. their material choice of using an extrude Aluminum turntable results in a pretty soft turntable platform. on top of that the clamp track is part of the turntable, which means the clamp rides in Aluminum tracks. the result is that a decent amount of sideways force can force the track to bend under stress and causing the clamp movement.

    other manufacturers have a separate steel track.

    nothing much can be done about this aside from a redesign from Gamma, or perhaps a way to reinforce the turntable.

    here is a video i took showing the problem in more clarity. in the video i am pulling the clamp sideways using my WISE @ 60lbs.

    i have already tighten up the base pretty well so there is no slippage or play due to lack in clamping force.

    i mainly string badminton rackets and this is not big of an issue there with most tension under 30lbs, but with tennis i can see this is a bigger issue.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2Om8L5oKQU
     
    #11
  12. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    Great Video !!

    Are the alphas reinforced better than the gammas? or are they about the same?
     
    #12
  13. Charleyk24

    Charleyk24 New User

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    Hello Charley,

    Thank you for sending the video.  The movement that you are seeing is
    normal, particularly for the way that you have set up the clamp base.
    The way you have it oriented in relation to the gripper is such that
    you are pulling the string from the "string clamp" back across and
    over the end of the "clamp base" that is securing the clamp base to
    the turntable table. Pulling that way will allow a lot of room for the
    flexing between the 2 attachment points.

    Try pulling string again, but this time rotate the clamp base 180
    degrees. You will notice that there will be much less movement. The
    reason is that you will now have eliminated the stress on the clamp
    base and the pulling tension will actually assist the force at which
    the clamp base is being held to the turntable rather than conflicting
    with it.

    Study the photos in the machine manual and note the orientation of the
    clamp base relative to the tensioner. By positioning the clamp base as
    it is in the photos you will notice a lot less movement.

    Hope this made sense.  If not please feel free to call me any time.

    Regards,
    John Matechen
    Stringing Machine Service Director/Technician
    GAMMA Sports
    200 Waterfront Drive
    Pittsburgh PA  15222
    cad@gammasports.com
    T: 800.333.0337 (ext. 226)
    F: 412.323.0317


    • Website  • Facebook • Twitter





    On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:02 AM, Leslie Kukleski <tsr@gammasports.com> wrote:

    ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    From: Charley Kim <charleyk24@gmail.com>
    Date: Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 2:36 AM
    Subject: Fwd: My stringing machine
    To: tsr@gammasports.com


    hi there
    i just got gamma string machine(progression els) from DO IT TENNIS (customer
    order #65650)
    i attach the video file
    is it ok or something wrong?
    thank you
    ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    From: Charley Kim <charleyk24@gmail.com>
    Date: Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 8:12 PM
    Subject: My stringing machine
    To: Andy <andy@doittennis.com>


    Hi Andy
    I send the video
    Is it normal moving or something wrong?




    Charley Kim
     
    #13
  14. Charleyk24

    Charleyk24 New User

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    Hello Charley,

    Thank you for sending the video.  The movement that you are seeing is
    normal, particularly for the way that you have set up the clamp base.
    The way you have it oriented in relation to the gripper is such that
    you are pulling the string from the "string clamp" back across and
    over the end of the "clamp base" that is securing the clamp base to
    the turntable table. Pulling that way will allow a lot of room for the
    flexing between the 2 attachment points.

    Try pulling string again, but this time rotate the clamp base 180
    degrees. You will notice that there will be much less movement. The
    reason is that you will now have eliminated the stress on the clamp
    base and the pulling tension will actually assist the force at which
    the clamp base is being held to the turntable rather than conflicting
    with it.

    Study the photos in the machine manual and note the orientation of the
    clamp base relative to the tensioner. By positioning the clamp base as
    it is in the photos you will notice a lot less movement.

    Hope this made sense.  If not please feel free to call me any time.

    Regards,
    John Matechen
    Stringing Machine Service Director/Technician
    GAMMA Sports
    200 Waterfront Drive
    Pittsburgh PA  15222
    cad@gammasports.com
    T: 800.333.0337 (ext. 226)
    F: 412.323.0317


    • Website  • Facebook • Twitter





    On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:02 AM, Leslie Kukleski <tsr@gammasports.com> wrote:

    ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    From: Charley Kim <charleyk24@gmail.com>
    Date: Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 2:36 AM
    Subject: Fwd: My stringing machine
    To: tsr@gammasports.com


    hi there
    i just got gamma string machine(progression els) from DO IT TENNIS (customer
    order #65650)
    i attach the video file
    is it ok or something wrong?
    thank you
    ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    From: Charley Kim <charleyk24@gmail.com>
    Date: Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 8:12 PM
    Subject: My stringing machine
    To: Andy <andy@doittennis.com>


    Hi Andy
    I send the video
    Is it normal moving or something wrong?




    Charley Kim
     
    #14
  15. Charleyk24

    Charleyk24 New User

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    Hello Kim,

    I think you are still experiencing movement based on how you have the
    clamp base set up in relation to the direction you are pulling the
    string.  Other than that there is no way the clamps can flex and cause
    that much movement. I think you are see some flexing due to the
    orientation of the clamp base vs the direction you are pulling.  Try
    experimenting by keeping the "string clamp" on a string.  Do not move
    it. But try rotating the "clamp base" 90 degrees at a time making a
    pull each time. Observe any movement. You will see that at some points
    there is a lot of movement and at other positions there is none. I
    think when you see where the clamp stops moving, or dramatically
    reduces, you will have found the proper way to orient the clamp.

    Hope this helped.

    Best regards,
    John Matechen
    Stringing Machine Service Director/Technician
    GAMMA Sports
    200 Waterfront Drive
    Pittsburgh PA  15222
    cad@gammasports.com
    T: 800.333.0337 (ext. 226)
    F: 412.323.0317


    • Website  • Facebook • Twitter





    On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 1:51 AM, Charley Kim <charleyk24@gmail.com> wrote:
    Hi John
    It's still moving
    Is it ok?
    Or am I wrong again?
    Thank you





    Charley Kim
     
    #15
  16. jmpsmash

    jmpsmash New User

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    that's the usual replies from John.

    "yes, this may look bad, but this is normal."

    actually, the reply you get is even worse.

    "hey, but if you do this and this to put your head in the sand, then voila you don't see it anymore!"
     
    #16
  17. mchjhn

    mchjhn Rookie

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    you complained about not getting a response in this thread, and dude was all over it later on. i guess you like to carry a grudge
     
    #17
  18. mchjhn

    mchjhn Rookie

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    #18
  19. Charleyk24

    Charleyk24 New User

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    Hello Charley,

    Thank you for sending the videos.  The flexing that you are seeing is
    normal.  As you moved the orientations of the clamp base and compared
    videos it is easy to see that the amount of flexing is less pronounced
    as seen in video number 9.  That orientation is the way you should set
    up the clamps you string the racquet.

    The flexing that you are seeing will not affect the stringing of the
    racquet and is normal.

    John Matechen
    Stringing Machine Service Director/Technician
    GAMMA Sports
    200 Waterfront Drive
    Pittsburgh PA  15222
    cad@gammasports.com
    T: 800.333.0337 (ext. 226)
    F: 412.323.0317


    • Website  • Facebook • Twitter





    On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 4:11 PM, Charley Kim <charleyk24@gmail.com> wrote:






    Charley Kim
     
    #19
  20. Charleyk24

    Charleyk24 New User

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    #20
  21. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    hey Charley, i just watched your latest video. i owned a Gamma 6004 w/ the switch action swivel clamps and observed about 1/8" to 1/4" drawback when i clamped the string and released tension. the amount of drawback i see in your video appears to be in the neighborhood of ~1/4" maybe a bit more but it looks like you're pulling tension on the string clamp which doesn't happen during the course of stringing a racquet. if that's the case, i would say it's normal. i do think you'd experience a bit more drawback because the switch action bases on the 6004 are much beefier and likely more rigid than the fixed clamp bases of your machine which could explain why i experience less drawback. it was because i was not happy with the amount of table flex in jmpsmash's video, the flex in the tension bar and the amount of drawback in the clamps compared to the prince neos 1000 which i was coming from that i decided to go all out and spring for a babolat sensor. the babolat turntable doesn't flex at all and the clamps have very little drawback.

    can you mount a racquet, string a few mains and then take a video of the amount of drawback you get when you release tension. this would be a better gauge of whether there's a problem.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2012
    #21
  22. mchjhn

    mchjhn Rookie

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    i disagree with this assessment. your not sticking your head in the sand. the clamps are moving because you are using the machine in a way that rarely happens. there is no tension on the other side of the string, like it would be when stringing.

    i know some of you will respond saying, "this will happen when you are stringing a racquet, and need to pull the 1st main." Well, if you are concerned, then do the Yusuki method (pull two mains at the same time, clamp off with one baseclamp, clamp the other side with the starting clamp).

    then the "issue" will be resolved. any draw back will be removed as you string until you get to the last main, or cross when you tie off. those aren't an issue because the string is considerably shorter than other sections of the frame.

    just my two cents, don't think its an issue.
     
    #22
  23. Charleyk24

    Charleyk24 New User

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    what do you think about this?

    John Matechen cad@gammasports.com
    11:58 AM (1 hour ago)

    to me
    Hello Charley,

    I spoke with our engineers and forwarded your videos, including the
    last one, you sent. The conclusion is that the deflection that you
    are seeing is in fact normal. The amount of deflection seems
    pronounced since you are pulling free against the clamp and clamp
    base.

    Try stringing a racquet and notice the drawback. You will see a
    dramatic decrease in deflection once you have a racquet in the
    suspension system and start stringing.

    Best regards,
     
    #23
  24. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    this is what i was trying to say in my post above.
     
    #24
  25. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Yes until you release the tensioner and have tension applied by the string in only one direction. It appeared to me the base was not tight enough and if that is the case you will have excessive drawback because you will only have tension in one direction. All the drawback will not be pulled out when you tension the next string either but most of it.
     
    #25
  26. monomer

    monomer Rookie

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    I was told to leave a message and I would get a return call. I still have not received a return call or remedied my problem.

    If that is your idea of a grudge then so be it.
     
    #26
  27. monomer

    monomer Rookie

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    To update my above post - I now see that Gamma Tech had replied in my other thread. I did not see this reply - it was after a few days of inactivity in the thread which I thought was dead. As you can probably tell by my post count, I do not camp out here.

    I took the time to call Gamma and was promised a return call. I did not plan to monitor the activity here for days on the chance that I might get a reply. I will follow up on the problem and report the eventual outcome here.
     
    #27
  28. Charleyk24

    Charleyk24 New User

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    thank you again all your advise

    finally gamma will ship new turntable with clamps&bases
    we, i & jhon (gamma) agree with those problems somehow
    1, clamp base bottom is not flat
    2. turntable leaning toward tentioner when pulling tention
    i wil update when i got new turntable

    thank you again all your advise
     
    #28
  29. Charleyk24

    Charleyk24 New User

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    thank you again all your advise

    finally gamma will ship new turntable with clamps&bases

    we, i & john (gamma) agree with those problems somehow
    1, clamp base bottom is not flat
    2. turntable leaning toward tensioner when pulling tension

    i wil update when i got new turntable

    thank you again all your advise
     
    #29

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