Genesis Black Magic

Discussion in 'Strings' started by Orion, Jul 5, 2009.

  1. Kcraig

    Kcraig Professional

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    Have a set of 17g BM and 16g BM and am having a hard time deciding on which to use as a cross w/ Pacific Tough Gut 16g. The Pacific rep in town is wanting me to try the tough gut/polyforce hybrid, but the stiffness rating of 320 scares me a bit:-? Those who are using the BM as a cross--what gauge are using? I am coming from Pacific Classic/Topspin CybeRed 17g. The Topspin is nice, but outside the sweetspot it can be a bit jarring. Def not as soft as CyberBlue or even CF for that matter. Thanks in advance for the input!:)
     
  2. PED

    PED Legend

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    Don't forget that the thinner 17g cross can act as a knife and cut through the mains quicker.
     
  3. Kcraig

    Kcraig Professional

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    Very true. That is what has me leaning towards the 16g cross. Damn snail mail!!!:twisted:
     
  4. PED

    PED Legend

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    US mail is always so slow :(

    Rain today but sunny tomorrow, I'm looking forward to getting out.
     
  5. Orion

    Orion Semi-Pro

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    I think the NRG2/BM hybrid will give you good feel. You may wanna take the BM up to 54-55 in the crosses. I strung NRG2 @ 59 worked good in my 4D.

    I'm not a fan of full poly. BM is good in the mains, but I've had a hard time finding a good cross with it. Can't put my finger on what it is but I get good results with it Head UltraTour17. It's stiffer than BM but I find it easier to play with a variety of crosses. I just cut out my high 50's BM hybrids and strung them up with Livewire/Lux M2 @ 56/56. Undecided on the other frame but I'm thinking BM/Gamma Syn in the mid 50's.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2010
  6. PED

    PED Legend

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    That NRG/BM hybrid is going to play great, the only problem will likely be durability on that one. Please report back and let me know how long it lasts.
     
  7. schenkelini

    schenkelini Semi-Pro

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    I would try the 17g. I have had great results with it and Gosen Micro.
     
  8. PED

    PED Legend

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    Did you use the 17g in the mains or crosses?

    KCraig is using gut mains with poly crosses so durability could be a problem.
     
  9. Orion

    Orion Semi-Pro

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    PED-

    Long time no see. I strung my "singles" frame up with NRG2/BM but haven't been getting much singles in since. PowerPlayer siad he got good results (not with this hybrid) with tension around 62. I knew 62 was up there for me so I figured it was worth a try to creep up. The NRG2 is so soft that stringing it at 59 didn't bother me. The BM is holding it's own. Still playing indoors at least for the next few weeks. My concern with NRG2 is durability in the heat. It gets so soft that playability suffers. I plan on using it for a singles match today. Playing dubs right after and may keep playing it. I still love the feel of gut in the mains but I hate the fact that poly dies before the gut wears.

    I created a spreadsheet to track how much time I'm getting from each setup. I know talk about anal :grin:
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2010
  10. PED

    PED Legend

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    Welcome to the the club...lol. I started doing that last year. It really helps; I use it to record how much time I have on each set I'm currently using and then I also track how long previous setups lasted. As you know from having the Rad Pro, it does eat strings at a prodigious rate.

    Right now, the temps have gone up and it was 71 today. I've actually dropped my tension on spinX after I began getting some elbow twinge. I'm using 53/51; I thought I would have some problems in the heat but the fact that the 16g is 1.31mm (hell, that's almost a 15g) gives it tons of spin. I've having to work EVEN less hard with the Rad and getting some nice action and nasty depth. I'm glad I pulled the pin and got a reel.

    My all time fav setup was X1 mains and cyberflash crosses. Great spin and great power and feel...for the 90 minutes it lasted :) After I win the lottery, that's going to be my go to setup.
     
  11. Orion

    Orion Semi-Pro

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    I just knew that 200mil Powerball was "earmarked" for me. Just checked my tix... not today anyway. Hopefully nobody hit so it'll be around $240mil on Wed.

    The 56# jobs hit well during warmup but I played with the NRG2/BM setup. Nice bite especially after lying dormant in my bag the past few weeks and the tension drop. The NRG2/BM setup was biting nice but I couldn't take advantage because I sucked today. My legs just wouldn't move today and the 4D was of NO help. Split sets but only cause my opponent only had one frame and broke strings leading 6-4, 6-5:30-40. I let him use a spare 4D and told him the tide just turned now it was 2 against 1. So I guess the 4D did indirectly help me out :razz: because I took the set in the breaker.

    I've been glancing in my bag at the Rad Pro but never pull the trigger. I'm currently having an affair with the PT280 every few sets.

    My guess is I'll get another 6 hours (indoors) from the NRG2/BM setup...got 4 on it now. Pretty sure my next few jobs I'm going to drop the tension down a few pounds to the low 50's. I'm thinking full BM at a lower tension. I just hate to think about how quickly the soft multi's will go in the hot weather. Gut is calling me but, my pockets don't have ears. BTW some lucky SOB in NJ won my $200 mil.
     
  12. schenkelini

    schenkelini Semi-Pro

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    The mains. I have also tried it in the crosses with Gaucho Gut mains. That played fantastic, but the gut popped after one 2 set match in my bag. I don't think the problem was the BM.
     
  13. Kcraig

    Kcraig Professional

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    That would stink!! I am one of the lucky ones--I hit pretty flat, so with the gut mains setup and savers after 4-5hrs I can usually squeek out 10-12+hrs with my gut mains setups. I am currently trying Pacific Tough Gut 16g/Polyforce 16g hybrid. Had a very brief hit yeterday (some awesome mixed dubs-LOL). The feel is wonderful!! So much better/softer feeling than the cheaper Pacific Classic and Klip I have used inthe past! Am going to do a side by side comparison of the 16g BM and see how it measures up! I have a great Pacific connection here in town so I'm getting a good deal from him including stringing!! :)
     
  14. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    Got an 88 strung up with Genesis BM at 61# and not since I tried Adrenaline did I feel such fail in the 88.

    I wonder why this stuff felt completely dead. Compared to Red17 or a full bed of ALU Rough this string had no feel whatsoever.

    Perhaps the 88 just isn't happy with this stuff.

    Shame, I was wanting to like it cuz the black looks sick in the 88.
     
  15. Chris Rizutto

    Chris Rizutto Banned

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    Is Red17 or Alu Rough your favorite in the 88?
     
  16. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    It feels like Flouro 17 to the touch but softer, so I thought for sure it would be decent but dear God what a fail. I think the 88 begs for stiffer strings.

    Red17 and ALUrough are the best for me in an 88. The JazzySetup was fun for two jobs but it lasted me like 4 hours so I'm back to Rough where I can get at least 8.

    Flouro was amazing in the 88 at 62. I wonder why I abandoned it, oh yeah, because I have string ADD.

    I think the most disgusting setup in the 88 would be VS Team in the Mains at 64 and Flouro at 60. Flouro is the all time most under rated string in history IMO.

    I'm going to try that hybrid soon.

    Need more Red17.

    Hurry Wilson, please release some of the best string I've ever used.
     
  17. Racer41c

    Racer41c Semi-Pro

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    I'm currently playing with NRG 17 mains with SPPPP 17 crosses. Starting tension was 58/54. The setup works pretty well and I'm not seeing any notching or saw-through. The one thing I am finding is the NRG loses tension faster than the SPPPP which changes the feel of the string bed. The poly cross are "taking over" the feel of the racquet and transitioning from a Crisp feel to a Boardy feel.

    So to me, it would seem like Gut mains with Poly cross should/would/could play longer and more consistently.
     
  18. David123

    David123 Hall of Fame

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    hmm sounds interesting i would defintely want to try this string out.
     
  19. Chace

    Chace Semi-Pro

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    I played with black magic 17 gauge for the first time. I agree with you, it is a very solid string. Provides good feel, ball pocketing and pop. However the string only lasted about 4 hours of play before breaking. I do use a POG mid which as we all know eats strings, but i was curious about how many hours of play do you get out of the black magic. Thanks Chace.
     
  20. Chace

    Chace Semi-Pro

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    How many hours of play do you guys get on average out of Black Magic 17g? I really like the string but have only been getting between 4 and 5 hours out of it before it breaks. Maybe i should give the 16g a try.
     
  21. Stinkdyr

    Stinkdyr Professional

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    Anybody have a spare 18' of either 16 or 17g Black Magic you want to sell me to try?

    nwlovell at yahoo.
     
  22. Chace

    Chace Semi-Pro

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    I am curious. To those that use black magic 17g how many hours do you get out of the string before it breaks. I am stringing it in a POG mid at 57 and get about 4 to 5 hours out of it
     
  23. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    I get approx 4-5 drilling sessions out of them. Each session lasts appro 2+ hours.
     
  24. Keifers

    Keifers Legend

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    I'm up to 7 hours with BM 17/Gamma Professional 18 @ 49 in a 4D 200 Tour (95"). Very happy with this hybrid.
     
  25. Chace

    Chace Semi-Pro

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    Ok thanks Drak and Keifers.
     
  26. gflyer

    gflyer Professional

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    I think I finally found my perfect setup. :)
    After a long time testing poly strings to use in the mains I found the perfect (for me) combination of comfort, feel, control, power and with pretty good tension maintenance.
    I strung my Pure Storm Tour GT frames with Black Magic 17 mains @53lb and RIP Control 16 crosses at 55lb.
    After stringing I get a DT reading of 38.
    After ~6-8 hours is still 33-34.
    I am very satisfied with BM. I think it is time to buy a reel.
    Cheers.
    g

    PS My previous setup was Polystar Energy in the mains, but tension maintenance was horrible.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2010
  27. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Take a DT reading after about 15 hours of hitting and let us know what it is. I noticed the Black Magic would feel great for about a week or so and then start hurting my arm.
     
  28. gflyer

    gflyer Professional

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    Bud, thank you for your input.
    usually after ~8 hours I cut the strings to avoid injuries. Like you said some polys after going dead can rally hurt your arm.
    I'll keep track of the DT until I cut the strings and post updates.
    I agree with you, Black Magic freshly strung feels really great.
    Cheers,
    g
     
  29. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Good string this. It's only taken me 3 years to get round to trying it out :)

    Anyway, without further ado....

    + Feels like a less stiff, less dead, more powerful version of B5E with more adjustabilty in shot making.
    + Easily a more usable string than the more one dimensional B5E
    ++ Very 'bitey', 'grabby' string. Surprisingly so. Very spin orientated. Didn't expect that at all.
    + Not super soft, nor stuper stiff. It's solid playing with a bit of give at the tension I used (52lbs CP).
    = In terms of stiffness, it's probably half-way house between Black Widow 17 and B5E 17. A medium stiffness poly.
    + Not really an elastic poly like BHB7, but neither is it a stiff or 'no give' poly like Tour Bite.
    + The string feels at its best when you nail the ball. You get the best out of it when taking big rips at the ball, with as much power as you can and with as much racquet head speed as you can. The harder you hit the ball, the better it seems to play. Anyone with low racquet speed or anyone who hits the ball very tentatively won't 'get' this string at all.
    + Control is pretty good though its mostly as a product of the spin it generates. Not exceptionally laser like accurate in terms of directional precision as some polys but not bad in that regard either. Less spray than with something like BHBR, but not as much absolute directional accuracy compared to something Alu Power or even Yonex Poly Tour Pro. Generally though, control is fine.
    = Feel is okay - not terrible, not great. Bit tinny without a vibe damp, but okay with. Not as much feel compared to the noticeably softer Black Widow but nowhere near as dead or muted as B5E.
    ++ Bit of a bargain price in reel form.

    Nice string. Can't really think of any obvious negatives though I will have to see how long it lasts before going dead or perfomance drops off. Will probably string it 1-2lbs lower next time. 52lbs seems just a fraction high for me as the ball very occasionally slides off the stringbed rather than embedding.

    (17g @ 52lbs CP in a Wilson Juice Pro 96/16x20)

    Previous (locked) thread about this string http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=390579

    Link to the RSI review: http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/articles/2011/08/15_playtest_genesis_black_magi.html
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  30. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Nice write up Torres. Black Magic is still my preferred poly. Love the feel, power, spin, and comfort. Great string at a inexpensive price.
     
  31. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    How is black widow comparing when itcomes to pocketing ? Black magic has some of the best imo .
     
  32. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    At the same tension, Black Widow has more pocketing. It's simply a softer string with much more give to it depending on how you're hitting the ball. Nice feel to it as well. That said you'd almost certainly be wanting to string Widow (super soft) and Magic (medium stiffness) at noticeably different tensions so it may be the case that you can achieve similar results.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  33. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Note, I only tried these as a main string. At similar tensions, I was hitting everything long with Black Magic and my shots were all landing short with Black Widow. The Black 5 Edge at the same tension was finding the mark. So if I had to do it again, I'd up the tension on Black Magic and lower it on Black Widow next time. Black Magic and Black Widow are both more comfortable on the arm than Black 5 Edge.
     
  34. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Great info guys . I am narrowing down my search to the yy ptp and magic or widow. It sounds like widow is an awesome string and could be great at 40#s.
     
  35. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    I'd be cautious about stringing Black Widow so low. It really is like no other poly in terms of it's softness. I string it not far off synthetic gut tensions.....
     
  36. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Based on Drakulie's recommendation, I bought a reel of Black Magic 17. I tried it and liked it. There are two guys I string for who were pretty set on Babolat RPM.

    I asked them to try Black Magic and if they didn't like it, I'd string up RPM for free. Neither have gone back, and I'm on my 3rd reel of Black Magic. It costs 1/3 the price of RPM and both of them tell me they like it better than RPM. I don't know if that comes from the cost being so much lower or the performance :)
     
  37. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    Rabbit - how long does the BM last (remain playable). SpinX and Typhoon died way too fast for this player.
     
  38. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Ok thanks. I may cross it off the list then since I only string low.

    Rabbit, I'm with you on BM. It always delivers. It will come down to that vs yyptp I think.
     
  39. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Don't discount it too readily....it's definitely worth trying out as it's a poly like no other in terms of softness and that pocketing feeling that you say you like. At a guess, 50lbs with Widow will probably be softer than Magic at 40lbs. Completely different feeling string though to say PTP. Different sort of sensation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  40. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Both the guys who use it that I string for are 5.0s and hard hitters. They always bring me their frames with either a broken string or the string cut out. I'd say 4 - 8 hours is probably the lifespan.

    I will add that there have been a couple of other guys who wanted a black poly and do not break strings. Both of them had me cut it out because their arms hurt. It stayed in too long.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  41. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    think 4 hrs or so is when the other G strings started dying and hitting deep became harder and ouchier...thanks.
     
  42. rodrigoamaral

    rodrigoamaral Hall of Fame

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    have experimented many strings over the years and this is definately one of the better strings of the bunch, excellent price/performance ratio as well!
     
  43. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Played another 3-4 hours with this string at the weekend, this time on grass (what a fabulous surface). Stringbed felt marginally softer than what it was like 3 days ago, probably due to some additional tension loss from my original 52lbs CP, and the strings maybe were quite as 'grabby' as before, though its difficult to be 100% sure because it was a different surface, one where even with new balls, they don't bounce as muich. Overall, the stringbed still felt fine though.

    The impression I get with this string, is that you have to be committed through every stroke and really be prepared to hit through the ball to get the best of this string. It's as if you need to work the strings and make them bend to get the best of out of them. Whether that was due to the tension I used or some other reason, I'm not sure. As mentioned previously it doesn't strike me as a string for players with tentative strokes or those who aren't prepared to crush the ball or those who don't generate alot of racquet speed.

    I'm really liking this string so far. It's a string with a nice balance of characteristics and inspires alot of confidence. Just need to see how long it lasts.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  44. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Only reason I have hesitated on going back to BM is because as stated the strings can die quick and you have to be careful there. I like a poly that will give me 8 hours since that can get me 1 week of usage before I break it or cut it out.

    See how it goes. Sometimes genesis strings die a horrible death in 4-6 hours and that can be in the middle of a match.
     
  45. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Well they've got about 5-6 hours on them already and I've got another match this evening, so that will take them over the magic 8 hour mark...
     
  46. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Oh man, you really did speak too soon, PP...

    These strings are dead at 5-6 hours, at the start of their third outing. Right at the start of a singles match as well. Frustrating. Most if not all of that grabbiness has gone, the ball doesn't feel like it's coming off the string bed with that much zap, and the string is much more rubbery feeling. You have to work the racquet so much harder to produce anything remotely resembling the same heaviness of ball. The ball coming off the racquet seems to be alot flatter and alot of the spin seems to have gone. I'd say its lost about 70% of its original performance. The confidence that it gave and the performance provided during the first few hours just isn't there. *sigh*

    SUCH a shame because it played sooooo well during the first few hours :-(

    Not sure where I go now with this string. GREAT playing string during the first few hours, but I find restringing about as tedious as ironing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  47. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Does anyone know if the 16 resists going dead more than the 17?
     
  48. FloridaAG

    FloridaAG Professional

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    That is unfortunate as I have just started using this string. Will have to see how they are when I play next
     
  49. schap02

    schap02 Semi-Pro

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    String holds tension well as a cross, one of my favorites - used to use it before switching to co-focus

    msv hex mains...
     
  50. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    I grabbed a pack of the 17 gauge for one more run. I want to see how long it lasts in my racquet. It is definitely one of my favorite polys..the pocketing is amazing.
     

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