Get rid of the Madrid Masters!

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Benhur, May 9, 2012.

  1. Benhur

    Benhur Hall of Fame

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    I never thought this tournament made much sense in the clay season as a lead up to RG, because the altitude made it too different. Now with the introduction of dyed clay and its very different characteristics, it's even worse. And the slippery conditions are a serious problem.

    Besides that, I’ve always thought this whole Caja Mágica design, the models acting as ballgirls and so on, were insufferably poshlost material. They even use blue toilet paper! http://www.europapress.es/chance/mo...iene-azul-papel-higienico-20120507163517.html

    Maybe one of the few positve outcomes of the financial crisis ravaging Spain will be the disappearance of this ugly tournament. Bring back Hamburg, or promote Estoril or Barcelona or some other real clay tourament at sea level to Master 1000 status. But please get rid of this abomination.

    Here are some comments I’ve seen by players.

    http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=17554
    Almagro:
    "I've always been very clear. The place of a [Masters] 1,000 is to prepare for Roland Garros ... you cannot do what was done," Almagro told reporters. "The courts are sliding a lot. It's a different, unique surface that isn’t used in any other tournament. It’s so close to Roland Garros that we prefer to play on red clay. The court is not in the best condition. You slip a lot and hopefully there will be no injuries. To [stay upright] on the court you need to make a real effort. But Ion Tiriac and Manolo Santana wanted have a blue court blue and there we have it. They, in favor of the show, wanted this court and we have to comply."

    http://www.tennis-x.com/xblog/2012-05-08/9492.php
    Djokovic:
    “To me that’s not tennis. Either I come out with football shoes or I invite Chuck Norris to advise me how to play on this court,” said Djokovic to the AP. “Center court is impossible to move on. I hit five balls throughout the whole match. With everything else, I was just trying to keep the ball in the court.”

    “When you slide on the red clay you have a feeling you can stop and recover from that step. But here, whatever you do … you are always slipping,” he continued. “Not a single player — not woman not man — I didn’t hear anyone say ‘I like blue clay.’”

    Del Potro:
    http://www.prensa.com/uhora/deporte...-de-rapida-que-siempre-pero-resbala-mas/90691
    "Yo la siento igual de rápida que todos los años. Lo que también siento es que es más difícil correr y que resbala mucho. Por momentos tiene mucha tierra y en otros lados no.” [The court seems to me as fast as in previous years. But I also feel it’s harder to run on it, it's very slippery. In some parts there is a lot of clay, and in other parts there isn’t.]

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/te...Smurf-blue-clay-courts-at-Madrid-Masters.html
    Ivo Karlovic, a sardonic Croatian with a large Twitter following, derided them as “something smurfs would play on”. The world’s top-ranked woman, Victoria Azarenka, complained on Sunday that “the bounce is different, the movement is different … it’s just 100 per cent different.”

    Meanwhile, the issue of player safety had popped up earlier that afternoon when Caroline Wozniacki fell and ricked her ankle during a hard-fought three set win over Ksenia Pervak. After the match, Wozniacki admitted that she had found the surface “slippery”.
    It is the nature of sportsmen and women to be super-sensitive about their office environment. A malfunctioning computer can waste your morning’s work, but a ridge in a tennis court might spell the end of a career.
    The blue clay courts are built from crushed brick, just like the orange ones, except that the material has been stripped of its iron oxide (the chemical that provides the original colour) and then treated with dye. It was inevitable that the process would change the way they behave.
    Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic, the two best clay-court players in the world, have been lambasting Tiriac’s decision for some time – both for its potentially disruptive effects and for its unilateralism. And now that the event has actually started, the rank and file have joined in, with the reliably outspoken Sergiy Stakhovsky tweeting that “I can say with full responsibility on my shoulders that it is the worst court of @ATPWorldTour.”
    It would be easy to paint the players as whingeing prima donnas, who would block any attempts to change the game on principle. But then they are dedicated to excellence – they wouldn’t be here at a Masters Series tournament if they weren’t – and this surface is clearly not the best way to prepare for the clay-court finale at Roland Garros.
    Neither is it making much of an impact on the TV companies. “I thought the visual contrast would be stronger,” said Mark Petchey, a commentator with Sky Sports. “I know the surface is getting the tournament talked about but I still feel it has been an own goal, because the top players – particularly the top men – have not come on board. If Tiriac carries on down this path next year, he can expect some high-profile absentees. I’ll be staggered if we’re not back to red clay in 12 months’ time.”
     
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  2. Apun94

    Apun94 Semi-Pro

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    So, what's your point? Get rid of the whole tournament altogether (which I just don't agree) or just get rid of the blue clay (red clay is so much better)?
     
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  3. TheF1Bob

    TheF1Bob Banned

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    Get rid of Monte Carlo and Barcelona. Just change the surface back to it's original form and you'll good to go. Madrid and Rome should be the only two big tournaments leading to Roland Garros.
     
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  4. Benhur

    Benhur Hall of Fame

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    Get rid of the whole thing, at least at this time of year. If you are going to have a clay season leading to Roland Garros, it doesn’t make sense to have a major tournament in it that is so radically different from the others due to altitude and (now) differences in the clay itself. If they want to keep it, put it in the post-USO season as a laboratory Masters tournament to experiment with new surfaces. But not in the month of May!
     
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  5. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    What does The Exalted One have to say about the court ?
     
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  6. Frying Pan Forehand

    Frying Pan Forehand Rookie

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    better get rid of OP from this forums.
     
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  7. Evan77

    Evan77 Banned

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    lol at that Chuck Norris comment. Novak is hilarious, hahaha
     
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  8. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    The only accurate part in all of that.
     
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  9. 1970CRBase

    1970CRBase Guest

    Djok is very much in touch with internet forums, I see. That one was like an in joke. I have no doubt he also reads tt.
     
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  10. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    All I can say is that the Blue Clay is bigger than Ben Hur.
     
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  11. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    Is the court slippery/poor court condition a result of it being blue, or is it simply a slippery/poor court which they happened to dye blue?

    I understand that players may have objections to the blue regardless, but I ask because I've heard others say that the Madrid courts had problems before they were blue. Or is it both -- they were poor before and the process of making them blue made them worse (in terms of true playability, not just color which annoys the players?)
     
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  12. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

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    This blue thing is great. Really great. Like, so really, really great, guys.

    It's amazing. It's like being wrapped up in a warm blue blanket all the time and having all the blue ice cream you could want and everyone is so nice and friendly, oh wow, blue is so great. This is so good!

    Thank goodness they keep handing out these special blue pills here in Madrid. It's so much fun, guys!!

    everything should be blue, all the time! BLUE!!!
     
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  13. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    Cool Starry Bra
     
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  14. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

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    Feeling blue, Gorecki?
     
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  15. Satch

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    Chuck Norris is a phenomenon in Serbia.
     
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  16. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Let's end the madness. Put Madrid back indoors and bring back Hamburg as a Masters Series event. It should never have changed in the first place.
     
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  17. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    Nadal loves Monte Carlo. He will disagree with you on this one.
     
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  18. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    Players should be heard. Tiriac will have to go back to RED.:twisted:
     
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  19. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    Why keep any of the Master's???? Just go back to the good old days of super 9, etc, etc.
     
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  20. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    That's the same thing :?
     
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  21. Li Ching Yuen

    Li Ching Yuen Legend

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    Yes cancel Madrid and have Monte Carlo twice during the season.

    It makes perfect sense to me.
     
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  22. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Not sure if you were being tongue-in-cheek (no smilies) but the 9 Masters tournaments ARE the old Super 9. They were just renamed.

    From Wiki:

    "The series was introduced in 1990 with the inception of the ATP Tour by bringing together the nine most prestigious tournaments of the Grand Prix Tour Championship Series (1970–1989). The events were originally known as "Championship Series, Single Week". From 1993 through 1999, the series was known as the Mercedes-Benz Super 9. In 2000, the name was changed to the Tennis Masters Series (TMS) and then changed to ATP Masters Series in 2004. The present name took effect in 2009."
     
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  23. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    Never. i adopted the Nadal fans strategy and i never get blue these days. i look at a Nadal sweaty photo and either i look happy or with a gun im my pocket!!

    however, i do see that you still have not lost the good old Canadian sense of humour.

    after all, how can one lose what one never had?
     
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  24. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Gorecki's writing in invisible ink now!
     
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  25. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Gorecki's writing in invisible ink now!
     
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  26. Benhur

    Benhur Hall of Fame

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    As a galley slave, Ben Hur pulled the oar in the big blue sea until he collapsed of exhaustion. Tiriac pulls shady strings to create little carnival shows with blue powder.

    [​IMG]
     
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  27. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    Yup, which is why Lendl is the Master's leader, not Nadal.
     
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  28. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I dont know why anything was changed. Monte Carlo, Rome and Hamburg as the 3 Masters events had worked beautifully for years.
     
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  29. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    bartelby said invisible
     
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  30. Magnetite

    Magnetite Professional

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    It's clay and it's in spain, so they should pretty much do whatever Nadal says to prepare him for Roland Garros ..
     
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  31. marc45

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    i was impressed, i know novak is an aware guy, but how in the hell does he know chuck norris, does serbia get reruns of his old tv show?
     
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  32. marc45

    marc45 Hall of Fame

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    agreed, you can't get enough beauty in your life
     
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  33. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Novak is in Expendables 2. Chuck is in Expendables 2. Doubtful Novak has ever seen anything with Chuck(that goes for most people in his age range I imagine)
     
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  34. Evan77

    Evan77 Banned

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    get your point, but he is a smart cookie ... very intelligent guy ... now, listen, I love old movies (although I'm not that young), so who knows?
     
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  35. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    Thou I prefer the "red" clay, I like the fact that they are trying new things to make the game more exciting.
     
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  36. coloskier

    coloskier Legend

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    Obviously Tiriac is NOT a *********.
     
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  37. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    Great to have a tournament surface that forces Federer to play S-V to win. That's the great Federer, the complete one. Great to have a tournament surface that for once is faster.

    Tiriac is obviously a builder. He was such in Germany for two decades, and is still so in Spain.

    Others would like to be destroyers.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
    #37
  38. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    the butthurt is strong in this thread.

    vintage stuff.
     
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  39. decades

    decades Guest

    this is awful. simply awful. And Spain in a depression. Sad.
     
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  40. JustBob

    JustBob Hall of Fame

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    Spain has a way to go to get back in the red. :)
     
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  41. norcal

    norcal Hall of Fame

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    Agreed, love to see the players play agressive - whether it's the crappy surface or what, seeing RF s/v on a second serve is so fun to watch.
     
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  42. winstonplum

    winstonplum Hall of Fame

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    Spectacular opening post. Says all there needs to be said. What a joke of a tournament. Asterisk city.
     
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  43. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    Madrid should go back to being an indoor carpet tournament..
     
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  44. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    ATP politics kicked in. After 2008, Shanghai's contract to stage the YEC came to an end. There had been a prior agreement that Shanghai would be compensated by being made into a Masters tournament so that Asia (and especially China) would continue to have a showcase major tournament. At the same time Ion Tiriac and Manolo Santana wanted to turn Madrid from indoor hard-court to clay and they persuaded the ATP to agree. So Hamburg was unceremoniously bumped down to a 500 event and its place in the ATP clay calendar season given to Madrid. Shanghai, which had formerly been staging the YEC, then slotted into Madrid's former place as the first of the two autumn/fall hard court Masters.

    Clearly this demonstrates the impressive clout that Tiriac, Santana and the Chinese have with the ATP. But it's not nearly so impressive as the utter lack of clout that the Germans apparently suffer from that the ATP could just demote their top tournament without so much as a by-your-leave to accommodate Madrid and Shanghai's ambitions. I raised a thread about this once before and still don't know how the ATP justified all this to the Germans and whether they even bothered to try!
     
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  45. rainingaces

    rainingaces Legend

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    How many players have injured themselves please?
     
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  46. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    I remember that thread....and doubtless if there were a top ranked german player who was a clay specialist, mayhaps it wouldnt have happened?

    That said, who knows the inner workings of finance when it comes to these tournaments.
     
    #46
  47. Lsmkenpo

    Lsmkenpo Hall of Fame

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    Shanghai the tournament the players voted the best Masters event the past three seasons with one of the most beautiful tennis stadiums in the world? What a mistake, bring back Hamburg.
     
    #47
  48. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Isn't this the one with the constantly empty stands?

    Yeah, yeah, I know, those seats have been sold to corporate suits and whatever but it is extremely weird to see so many empty seats at a MS event.
     
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  49. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Would be interesting to get the players' views on that. Would we see a split between the claycourters led by Nadal voting to bring back Hamburg whilst the hardcourters vote to stay with Shanghai and its gorgeous stadium and state-of-the-art hospitality (never mind the lack of fans)?
     
    #49
  50. Raz11

    Raz11 Semi-Pro

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    From a business perspective, China is a large potential market which explains the need for a masters there. 1 in 5 people in the world lives there so it is a smart decision. It's attendance may be low but it is too soon to judge it yet.

    I am still disappointed about Hamburg though. It deserved better than that and now it struggles to get any top players. Why can't they have it on the same time as Barcelona? Did Barcelona pay ATP to keep that week to itself?
     
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