Gilles Simon on equal prize money

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by nissrro, Jun 27, 2012.

  1. nissrro

    nissrro New User

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    97
    #1
  2. brettsticker86

    brettsticker86 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2012
    Messages:
    186
    Location:
    USA
    Love it, spot on
     
    #2
  3. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,752
    He needs to be kicked out - another frustrated marginal player who has no understanding of history.
     
    #3
  4. gsharma

    gsharma Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    919
    No he does not. The pendulum has swung far enough, especially in tennis, that players need to be paid based on their worth. Let the free market determine that no need for artificial props. Sharapova has been making millions the last few years, when she was injured and couldn't land a serve in.

    If women's tennis is good enough, the women will find the sponsors to pay them justly. Enough hand-holding.
     
    #4
  5. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    17,103
    Location:
    Toronto
    When there wasn't equal prize money....Women actually played better.
     
    #5
  6. Joseph L. Barrow

    Joseph L. Barrow Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,234
    Relative to the WTA players, the ATP players produce more and better tennis and generate more revenue. The standing policy of paying the WTA players as much as the ATP players-- not because of the merits of their work, but because of their sex-- is sexist and discriminatory.
     
    #6
  7. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    16,672
    Location:
    Poland, eating bigos and żeberka
    I don't think changing the best-of-3 format to best-of-5 will do anything good to the game. If there's anything I DON'T want to see are longer WTA matches when there's an eagerly awaited men's encounter in store.

    It's purely the quality of play that bothers me (and Simon), we can't pay women as much as men only because they are women when there's like 1/10 interest compared to the ATP.
     
    #7
  8. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    16,672
    Location:
    Poland, eating bigos and żeberka
    Also, you should've thought twice before making prize money equal for both sexes. Now it's too late.
     
    #8
  9. barry

    barry Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2004
    Messages:
    3,269
    Since the WTA demands equal prize money, then they should be put into the men’s draw. If they want to be equal, then one draw for men and women by rank. Equal prize for equal ability should rule.
    In the grand slam events they play 2 out of 3 sets over 2 weeks, pretty easy money for an inferior product.
     
    #9
  10. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,752
    No, you don't have to pay anyone. You can keep your precious money to yourself. You can also write to Rush Limbaugh that when women go on maternity leave, they should reapply for a job. After all, you don't have to do that, right? Hey, why cover that as a medical expense? It is something that does not even apply to you.

    Merit is a bogus concept.

    I would also like you to write to all the colleges which have been admitting unqualified boys to maintain the gender ratio, as more women and less men are graduating from college. Take to the streets to protest this injustice.
     
    #10
  11. scotus

    scotus Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    7,528
    One thing is for sure.

    If the situation were reverse--i.e., if women were playing the best of 5 and men were playing best of 3 yet getting equal pay, the female pros would be crying foul and picketing all the time.
     
    #11
  12. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,752
    Really? All two of them (Evert and Navratilova)? What condescending BS. Why don't we lower the men's pay to the 100 pounds that Laver used to get so that they play even better?
     
    #12
  13. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,752
    No it is not for sure. The only thing for sure is that there are male losers who cannot accept their condition.
     
    #13
  14. r2473

    r2473 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    6,962
    #14
  15. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    16,672
    Location:
    Poland, eating bigos and żeberka
    Because they have to work twice as hard to earn their money, especially Simon who is considered a "wimp" among men even though he would kill Serena Williams on court.
     
    #15
  16. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    16,672
    Location:
    Poland, eating bigos and żeberka
    I'm fine, thanks. Happy that someone with actual power finally stood up to the task, though.
     
    #16
  17. tank_job

    tank_job Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    991
    Couldn't kill her off the court though.

    No way, Serena would knock him down and shove a ball (one of her own?) down his throat.
     
    #17
  18. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,752
    What is twice as hard? It is relative to the person. Twice as hard for a man is because he is competing with other men. Do you go to the women's bathroom? Why should Serena compete against him? A man has to compete against a man. No extra money for this. If he wants to compete against women, let him have a sex change. A pot bellied golfer has to compete against another pot bellied golfer, and let them both make money. Don't ask why they are making more than a fit man who runs an Olympics marathon.
     
    #18
  19. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    16,672
    Location:
    Poland, eating bigos and żeberka
    40-year old Santoro would hit her off the court. Dang, probably Johny Mc wouldn't get overpowered by Serena.
     
    #19
  20. TennisLovaLova

    TennisLovaLova Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    3,054
    Exactly
    Was thinking the same thing. Now it's just pathetic...
    Look at Wozniacki today. It's a shame really that they earn so much money for such a crappy tennis leven
     
    #20
  21. mike84

    mike84 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    742
    Location:
    canada
    forgot to drink your koolaid?

    Simon is right, WTA struggles at every single event attendance/viewers quality of matches etc women don't deserve equal prize money.

    and if you want to mention golf compare PGA to LPGA prize money.
     
    #21
  22. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    16,672
    Location:
    Poland, eating bigos and żeberka
    Or to the gender. Do you know how much effort men have to put in to maintain their level? It's uncomparable. Do you know any great male player who took a longer break and came back fast?

    Agassi had a horrible 1997, barely played any matches and had to scrap his way back to the top which took him 2 years. Del Potro is yet to find his old peak level.

    Now compare it to Serena - came back SEVERAL times to dominate majors, Clijsters winning the US Open in 2009, Henin reaching the AO final in 2010 after a 2,5 year break.
     
    #22
  23. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,062
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    I believe in:

    1. Equal prize money for men and women
    2. Best of 5 sets in the majors, for both genders
     
    #23
  24. Frying Pan Forehand

    Frying Pan Forehand Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    297
    #24
  25. mike84

    mike84 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    742
    Location:
    canada
    only logical solution
     
    #25
  26. TennisLovaLova

    TennisLovaLova Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    3,054
    When was number 2 abandonned in women tennis?
     
    #26
  27. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,062
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    The sexists all coming out of the woodwork, I see :evil:
     
    #27
  28. Frying Pan Forehand

    Frying Pan Forehand Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    297
    I guess you were raised by a single mother, or brainwashed by the hoards of single angry women who got old and can't get a man in their dreams, no?
     
    #28
  29. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,062
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    The other one is to lower men's matches to best of 3 sets, and I think that would harm the sport. I think best of 5 sets for the majors makes it known to all male players that these are the hardest prizes to win in tennis, and are harder to win than all the other tournaments. It should be the same for the women's game, with the majors being the hardest to win.

    And I fully agree with equal prize money.
     
    #29
  30. scotus

    scotus Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    7,528
    Yes, it is for sure.

    And you will probably be one of the first in line protesting that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2012
    #30
  31. tank_job

    tank_job Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    991
    Nah, let the women play one game per match, pay 'em 5x more than men.

    Is anyone going to complain?

    Don't think so...
     
    #31
  32. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,183
    Location:
    USA
    The revenue stream should dictate the prize money payments. Personally, I only care about men's tennis as the women's game is far inferior. The ATP is getting hosed because of political correctness (and BJK turning equal prize money into a civil rights issue.) :roll:

    The ATP should insist on separate TV contracts, separate tournaments and separate gates. The current scheme is like making the NBA split its revenues 50/50 with the WNBA. Makes absolutely no sense at all.
     
    #32
  33. Peters

    Peters Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    667
    Location:
    UK
    I don't have a major issue with equal prize money any more (I used to, but I've mellowed). It's a concept that's perhaps a little difficult in recent years due to a weak WTA era, which doesn't help.

    Sure, men's tennis is clearly the superior form of the sport, but women don't have the attributes to match that high intensity. So giving them less prize money is a bit like punishing them for something that isn't their fault.

    The same reason a female 100m champion should be paid the same as a male 100m champion. Both have maximised their potential and beaten the rest - the fact a man can run faster than a woman is irrelevant. The same principle applies to tennis, in terms of physique/ability to propel themselves around the court in incredible ways like the men can.

    The 3 vs 5 set thing: I don't think it really matters. There's not any great demand from the public to see longer women's matches - and there would be an issue of practicality in 2-week slam events to fit them all in anyway. They can barely manage it as it is.

    It's a non-issue IMO. I think women's tennis is mostly awful, but have no real problem with them getting paid the same at slams.
     
    #33
  34. scotus

    scotus Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    7,528
    Right you are.
     
    #34
  35. gsharma

    gsharma Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    919
    Best solution, completely separate the men's and women's tournaments. That way, men are paid based on what the market (sponsors, fans etc) decides and women are paid based on market value as well.

    I don't have a problem with equal prize money but I have a problem with WTA using sexism/discrimination as a crutch when it's a non-issue in tennis. This is not the 60s/70s with Billy Jean struggling. Women make enough money off court through endorsements (case in point, Sharapova and Wozniaki) and there aren't any more barriers to entry for women as there are for the men. Women's tennis is a mature-enough product to stand on its own.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2012
    #35
  36. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,062
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Keeping women's tennis matches as best of 3 sets while the men play best of 5 sets is saying that either women can't play best of 5 sets (the myth that women are physically weak) or that the public don't want to see them play best of 5 sets (the myth that women are not deserving of having the same format as the men). To be truly equal, the format of both men's and women's tennis has to be the same, and to have equal prize money.
     
    #36
  37. scotus

    scotus Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    7,528
    Or have both men and women play the best of 3 with more games per set.
     
    #37
  38. rabidranger

    rabidranger Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    165
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO USA
    Is it? If you segregated the tours in this way I think you accomplish two things:

    1) You acknoweldge that the women and men's games don't stand on equal footing

    2) You set the women up for failure by isolating the deficiencies in the women's game-both on the court and as an overall spectator sport

    If I was the WTA leadership I wouldn't even respond to people like Simon. It only serves to raise those nagging questions that no one on the WTA really wants to bring up.
     
    #38
  39. Peters

    Peters Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    667
    Location:
    UK
    Well....it depends how you look at it really. The status quo is 5 for men and 3 for women. And like I say, it's partially out of practicality that there's been no serious thought to change that in slams. They'd have to extend them, change the calendar, etc.

    It just seems if there's no real demand for that to happen (apart from the odd dissenting voice) then it's probably not a big issue. The powers that be seem happy about it, the fans aren't putting up any great protest about it, so....it'll probably just stay as it is.
     
    #39
  40. gsharma

    gsharma Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    919
    That's not true. I would enjoy watching women's matches if players of the caliber of Navratilova, Graf, Evert were playing. Heck, it's fun watching current players such as Schiavone and Venus/Serena too.
     
    #40
  41. rabidranger

    rabidranger Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    165
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO USA
    I'm not saying that there aren't people that enjoy women's tennis. I'm just in the camp that it's a much weaker overall game than the ATP, and I think attendance, revenue, etc. bear that out. My bottomline is the WTA should PRAY for status quo.
     
    #41
  42. WhiskeyEE

    WhiskeyEE Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    5,214
    You get paid based on your value. I don't know how profitable the WTA is compared to the ATP.

    I'm more concerned with what matches they play on TV. And I'm getting sick of all of this WTA coverage. Christ.
     
    #42
  43. krz

    krz Professional

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Messages:
    889
    Location:
    Concrete Jungle Where Dreams are Made
    Here is my issue of equal work for equal pay and making women play 5 sets.

    Tennis is a business and in real life no one cares how hard you work. It just doesn't matter. It's all about results. When running a business the end result is revenue.

    Therefore completely separate the tours. Naturally, the tour that can bring in the most money/sponsors/viewers/spectators will have higher payouts. Getting what you earn/Eat what you kill it's a revolutionary concept I know...
     
    #43
  44. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,062
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    I oppose capitalism, so I'm not going to join in its blind following of "the market", which is actually the law of the jungle. The rights people have today as workers, women, or any exploited group, is down to the labour movement, protest movements and trade unions, not down a supposed "generosity" shown by governments or super-rich corporations.

    So yes, look at the problem through the eyes of a capitalist, and women don't deserve equal prize money, nor do LGBTs, blacks, Latinos, young people, old people etc. This is a system I completely reject.

    We need a system in place in tennis where the format and prize money is the same for both genders, and yes, this comes up against the interests of the business people who think short-term big business profit (i.e. less women's tennis on TV) means more than equality, the same people who in the past didn't think women deserved equal prize money and caved in under pressure.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2012
    #44
  45. Frying Pan Forehand

    Frying Pan Forehand Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    297
    I guess you are not succesfull at life, you know survival of the strongest , this is how life was made so why try to change it?
     
    #45
  46. scotus

    scotus Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    7,528
    But as long as the two tours are not completely separate, the 3 vs 5 set workload will remain an issue.

    Simon's argument is that the men's tour provides higher entertainment value and requires far more work load, a one-two punch against the justice of equal pay.

    Like I said before, if the situation were reverse--i.e., men were playing the best of 3 and the women the best of 5 with equal pay, then there would be no end to the foul-crying and hell-raising from protesters.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2012
    #46
  47. r2473

    r2473 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    6,962
    how is it not fair to the atp / male players?

    are they being paid less? prize money history tells us no

    would they be paid even more if women were paid less? that is hard to see.

    you do understand that "the pot" is split between many parties besides the players, right? if anyone isn't being "treated fairly", you probably need to look elsewhere. for me, its hard to cry for multi-millionaire organizers.

    perhaps you could say that fans are paying too much, but do you really believe decreasing womens prize money would lower ticket prices? wimbledon could charge more than double tickets probably judging from the queues, etc. it would be interesting to see how prices are set. they basically mint money for scalpers selling so far below what people are willing to pay (but that is another topic altogether).

    i understand that you yhink equal prize money is "unfair", but im unclear who it is unfair to

    the best of 3 vs. best of 5 makes no sense. if thats the case, you'd have to argue that 250 event winners should be paid as much as 1000 event winners. its all best of 3.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2012
    #47
  48. Arafel

    Arafel Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,142
    Just wanted to chime in regarding the posting of this on tennis. Sounds like Simon is an ***. Sloan Stephens talks about the time she was a ball girl and Simon hit her right in the chest with a ball after losing a set.
     
    #48
  49. gsharma

    gsharma Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    919
    That is uncalled for dude. Mustard has a very valid point.

    My point is that there is no inherent inequality in women's tennis NOW. There used to be an inequality but not now. So what injustice are we addressing?
     
    #49
  50. krz

    krz Professional

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Messages:
    889
    Location:
    Concrete Jungle Where Dreams are Made
    Oh god, you're one of those people who cry about how lifes not fair, cry for handouts and continue to blame others for your own shortcomings? I already know any of my further comments will be an exercise in futility.

    Don't you have some street in lower Manhattan you should be occupying?
     
    #50

Share This Page