Gluten-free experiences?

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by heycal, Mar 6, 2013.

  1. colowhisper

    colowhisper Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    I never have had much of a sweet tooth, so very little fake sugar ever. I still eat large (800ish) caloric breakfast everyday; lots of protein, fat and now get carbs from fresh fruit smoothies.
     
    #51
  2. colowhisper

    colowhisper Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    I know several people who profess to eat no carb diets. They are all thin, but none of them are athletic or play competitive sports of any kind.
     
    #52
  3. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    12,605
    ... but on the other hand the cultivation of grain has caused the explosion of the world's population and is a major faction in the creation of civilization.



     
    #53
  4. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,412
    Location:
    expanding my Ignore List
    I don't personally know anyone who eats a NO carb diet though I have met many people who eat LOW carb diets. There's a big difference. I am a 4.0 singles and doubles player who eats a low carb diet. Once your body adapts to a fat-burning mode you can play most any kind of sport.

    http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2012/01/04/steve-phinney-low-carb-shows-benefit-for-athletes/

    This is me fwiw. I could probably stand to lose a couple more pounds but I'm at least 25 pounds less than my peak. Please shield your eyes when these guns go off:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
    #54
  5. colowhisper

    colowhisper Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    You look to be in very good shape, how old are you? Can you share an example of your low carb meals and calorie planning for a tournament weekend? Supposing you have match on Thu night and you do well and play another on Friday and then two matches Saturday, one at 8 am and another at 2 pm. How would you eat?
     
    #55
  6. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    So basically, you seem to be a poster boy for a gluten free diet.

    Doubters, what say you?

    Can you relate more details and specifics about what you ate beforehand, what exactly you cut out of your diet and added to it, how you felt beforehand, how you felt after, etc?
     
    #56
  7. colowhisper

    colowhisper Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    Not sure what you mean by poster boy? And I am not gluten free, just gluten lower. The biggest change was that I used to eat a LOT of bread, I love sandwiches. Ate sandwiches for breakfast. Sandwiches for lunch. Sandwiches for snacks. I regularly had crashes an hour or two after meals that required a nap or caffeine. Chalked it up to aging until it was recommended to try no wheat diet for my nagging joint stiffness. Immediately forgot about my naps and coffees and (confession) stint with 5 Hour Energy shots. Still eating breads/pastas for dinners, and still enjoying beers on occasion. And still experimenting, like the concept of not combining protein and starches in same meal. But I am definetely feeling Much better not eating wheat for breakfast or lunch and don't think it's my imagination.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
    #57
  8. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,412
    Location:
    expanding my Ignore List
    I'm 54. For breakfast I normally eat something I call pizza quiche which is basically a baked casserole of eggs and cheese with cream and hot Rotel/pizza sauce and spices along with a cup of coffee with coconut oil and heavy whipping cream added. I really don't have a problem eating the same thing most days for breakfast. Before I went low carb, I ate this Kellogs cereal called Just Right Fruit and Nut almost every day for well over a decade.

    For low carb I generally try to get 10-20% of my calories from carbs primarily vegetables along with a little fruit and some nuts although I probably get more than I realize from beer. I try to get 60-65% of calories from fat and 20-25% from protein. Those numbers are my goals but I do stray sometimes like for instance last night when my wife surprised me with some Trader Joe's chocolate-dipped, pistachio-covered toffee as a gift. I'm not perfect but I generally stay in those ranges or close to them.

    I try to eat fish particularly salmon at least twice a week which is nice because my wife makes great salmon dishes and everybody else likes them too. I also eat a good bit of baked chicken and other meat I cook on my big steel keg though I'm not adverse to BBQ pork or beef. I don't want my diet to affect the rest of the family so I'll eat whatever is cooked and just avoid things.

    I also eat eggs cooked in a variety of ways for breakfast if I'm out of quiche. Lunch, if I eat it, is some combination of meat and vegetables and the same with dinner. I rarely eat bread and avoid potatoes and most other starches though I'll sometimes eat rice. I wouldn't eat any differently if I was playing a tournament than I would otherwise.

    That is what I've found works for me. I've been doing it since March of 2011 and I feel great. My recent bloodwork was all good. However, everybody has to find what works for them. Low carb is not a quick fix but a lifestyle change which you commit to for as long as you want to keep the weight off. If I had a nickel for every doofus I've heard say 'low carb doesn't work because as soon as I started eating carbs again I gained all my weight back' my butler Alfred would be the one typing this reply for me. A low carb diet is NOT for everybody. I repeat, it is not for everybody but then again I don't believe there is a one-size-fits-all diet that is. Good luck finding what works for you. It only took me 52 years.
     
    #58
  9. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    6,404
    Location:
    The Great NW
    Folks seem to be using "gluten" and "carbs" interchangably. Most with serious gluten problems don't use low card diets, they formally stop using gluten containing products and religiously use nongluten carbs.
     
    #59
  10. comeback

    comeback Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,184
    Hey Beernutz, you look great man, and at least 20 years younger..Like Pbarrow i am a new convert 27 days with no grain, no sugar..I have many of the same results but am giving it 6 weeks to send pictures and a full report. As far a pbarrow's question on what to eat during match times and days..So far my favorites are hearty vegetable soups..I carry nuts and raisens/fruit if i need it for energy..My wife makes these great banana/coconut muffins and pumpkin pies to help..It's taken me a little while to get used to the feeling of burning fat when playing instead of the hyper feeling of being on grainy sugar carb bars that i used to eat all the time..Yes it's an adjustment but so far so good..I love reading the stories of my fellow grain/sugar free comrades.It validates my feelings and motivates me to keep going
     
    #60
  11. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,412
    Location:
    expanding my Ignore List
    Thanks comeback. Good luck with your quest. The first part of the transition was the hardest for me but after a while it became second nature.

    My worst problem is I have teenagers who eat carby crunchy snacks (Oreos, cheezits, wheat thins, etc.) which, when the girls are not eating them, sit tantalizingly in our pantry, calling out to me. My kids are very active in sports and can eat that stuff all day long with their furnace-like metabolisms and not gain an ounce, but my love handles bulge if I just glance at them. We compromise by keeping them sort of boxed away in the pantry.

    My wife has been a great supporter too so that for example when she makes her delicious crawfish pies, she'll make some without the pie crust which if you ask me are just as good. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. So again, good luck and I hope this works out for you like it has for me.

    There are some examples of low carb athletes such as this one:

    http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2012...amarathon-steve-phinney-and-jeff-volek-study/

    Western States 100 - Low Carber Wins Ultramarathon - Steve Phinney and Jeff Volek Study

    Earlier this summer, Steve Phinney and Jeff Volek, authors of The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance, headed to the Western States 100-mile Endurance Run, to study how runners in this grueling race fared, literally, for they were checking how the athletes performed, AND how they ate. Steve Phinney says that more and more endurance athletes are choosing low-carb, high-fat. They're choosing this diet both to get over digestive problems that hit in such a demanding event, and to win the race, and win it BIG! That's what Tim Olson did this year. A self-proclaimed low-carb eater, Tim won the race - with a record-breaking pace. - Shelley

    I know ultramarathoning is different than tennis but I can also point out that a certain #1 ATP player in the world is also a gluten free eater. I am not claiming joker is low carb by any means but giving up bread doesn't seem to have done his tennis game any harm.
     
    #61
  12. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,412
    Location:
    expanding my Ignore List
    I hope you are not referring to me as I don't believe I've done that. I do believe that there is at least a one-way relationship between the two as almost all low carb diets tend to be gluten free, but you can certainly eat gluten free without eating what I would describe as a low carb diet.

    However for many people, gluten containing foods tend to be a large part of their total caloric intake and when you cut them out and get those calories from other sources those people often end up eating fewer carb calories as a percentage of their total calories than before, or what might be referred to as a lower carb diet. Just my $.02 and feel free to disagree.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
    #62
  13. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    So you're saying just by eliminating wheat during the day time you feel less joint pain and more energetic? And you still get to eat some wheat/bread at dinner?

    If so, I think I could do this! Please verify. (And remind me what you eat for breakfast?)

    Basically, all it would mean for me is no cheerios or grape nuts for breakfast, as I don't really eat bread or gluten during the day, but do often have some at night (along with some sugar/dessert).
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
    #63
  14. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    6,404
    Location:
    The Great NW
    That is true for the purposes of this thread, that is: dabbling in cutting down on gluten... just because. For them, the two are, from a practical sense, identical.

    My point was that for those with actual celiac disease, since they seek out gluten free carbs, they can have normal or even high carb diets yet remain gluten free.
     
    #64
  15. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,412
    Location:
    expanding my Ignore List
    I don't disagree with this at all. I do know personally people with diagnosed celiac disease who have adopted low carb diets though.
     
    #65
  16. comeback

    comeback Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,184
    Thanks beernutz, i'm psyched, I did read somewhere that young people and older people have the same metabolism so maybe we can't blame our problems on that.LOL.. I read the TNT diet by Phinney and Volek and books by Gary Taube and Rob Wolf so this info just validates this approach. My wife makes some excellent pie/cake crusts http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/desserts/r/almondpiecrust.htm
    i gotta look into that crawfish pie
     
    #66
  17. Brian11785

    Brian11785 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,506
    Location:
    TX
    TNT Diet is a great book. I am two weeks into the diet/workout plan and, though I have lost virtually no weight (two pounds), have lost over an inch off my waist and am noticeably more toned overall. All with no ill effects or carb cravings. And I love the workout routines. So few exercises work so many muscles.

    The most shocking thing is how much energy I have on this diet, considering the only carbs I consume are from vegetables and almond butter. I played (and won) a grueling 2 1/2 hour match last week in 80 degree humid weather with no noticeable changes to my endurance/stamina. There is no way I could've done that on Phase 1 of South Beach.
     
    #67
  18. colowhisper

    colowhisper Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    Yes. These are things i eat for breakfast regularly: eggs, yogurt, fruit smoothies, cottage cheese, oatmeal, bananas, sausage. And yes I do eat some pastas for dinner, not much bread anymore, an occasional tortilla/burrito, etc. definitely notice energy level change and less stiffness when I am diligent.
     
    #68
  19. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    I'm on the fourth day of following the "Pbarrow plan": no gluten products in the day time. I'm replacing my breakfast/lunch with eggs instead of Cheerios, with some gluten on some of the evenings. Don't notice any difference in energy or stiffness yet.
     
    #69
  20. comeback

    comeback Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,184
    Great results Brian, i am getting similar results on day 29..Lost 10lbs without any grueling cardio or matches (been injured)..can't wait till i see how the fat burning will help my tennis in a long match in hot weather
     
    #70
  21. colowhisper

    colowhisper Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    Bummer! Maybe you are not very sensitive to gluten, I am envious. Will be interested to hear if you go back to having a higher gluten laden breakfast and lunch if you have any loss of energy.
     
    #71
  22. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    You can gain more energy and improve joint stiffness just by refraining from bread or pasta until dinner time and you're envious of me?
     
    #72
  23. Lefty5

    Lefty5 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    1,662
    I too wonder if its ALL or NOTHING, with this Gluten Free thing. Why can't we just "reduce" gluten and get "some" of the benefits?

    I'm on my 5th day of no gluten and I feel AWFUL. Weak, fuzzy headed, can't concentrate, I'm kinda depressed and feel like I can cry easily - none of these is my norm. I'm also hungry all the time. This sucks.

    I don't have celiac disease, I have perfect weight, and I feel fine on a regular basis. I'm experimenting with GF to see if it helps with some knee tendonitis and tinnitus in my ears. Hoping I can get over these withdrawal symptoms and begin to introduce gluten back in to my diet and still maintain some of the benefits (if I ever get any benefits in the first place!!!)
     
    #73
  24. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    Very interesting. Perhaps since you are suffering withdrawal it means you are, in fact, deeply affected by gluten. (I don't think I would personally feel that bad if I didn't have gluten for five days.)

    I say stick it out and see if you feel better after awhile.

    Be curious to see how this plays out. Keep us posted.
     
    #74
  25. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2004
    Messages:
    5,755
    Yes it is not unusual to crave the things that give you trouble.
     
    #75
  26. Lefty5

    Lefty5 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    1,662
    I think I owe a clarification to my experience. Shortly after I wrote the above I came down with a bad cold and bronchitis, so pretty sure my feelings were because I was getting sick. I am better now and back to trying Gluten Free again.

    I'm a runner and a tennis player and have always struggled with my recovery. I was always looking for recovery powders and supplements to try and get back on the court or trails faster. Going GF, my recovery is noticeably better. I run 11 miles and the next day I feel like I can do it again. My 2-4 day recovery from big runs or long singles matches has been shaved down to 1 or 2 days. My body and muscles feel fresher and more ready to exert energy when I'm exercising. Otherwise, everything else feels the same.

    I will eventually introduce wheat/gluten (i.e. beer/pizza) back into my diet to see how it affects me, but for now, its working well going completely GF.
     
    #76
  27. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2011
    Messages:
    1,475
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Interesting topic. I've read just enough on it to be dangerous.

    You have the paleo people who think gluten is the second coming of Satan, and then folks like Dr John McDougall who has written a book called "The Starch Solution" where he advocates eating lots of bread, rice, pasta, etc....

    Frankly, I don't think one eating style fits all. You gotta find what works for you. Several years back I spent about 18 months on a strict vegetarian diet, mostly raw vegan. I did NOT do well on that diet and needed to add back in some healthy fats and animal proteins. My immune system took a hit with that diet. Others thrive on it.

    All that said, I've yet to hear of anyone who went gluten free and who felt their health got worse. Most feel improvement, some feel no change. I've tested for celiac sensitivity and have none. Theoretically I'm fine with gluten but I tend to feel better the less grains I consume.
     
    #77
  28. roman40

    roman40 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Messages:
    309
    I used to suffer from low energy, cramps, and poor recovery. It's wasn't bad, but I felt I should be able to perform better. After I went on gluten free diet, I felt improvement in all those areas. It even cured fasciculation in my calf musles (basically small musle twitches, looks like something is crawling under you skin). My doctor thinks that these issues were due to bad absorption of nutrients and vitamins, which is consistent with symptoms of gluten sensitivity (read about it on Wikipedia). I probably don't have Celiac disease, since I could eat food with gluten without serious side effects, but I think my sensitivity got worse with age, which is also common.

    Gluten sensitivity is quite prevalent, 1-2% of the population has it, that's been confirmed through extensive scientific studies, so gluten free diet is not a fad for everyone, for many people it really helps. It's a tough diet to follow initially, mostly because so many products include wheat/rye/barley in some form. Going to restaurants is a pain as well, since you have to be quite noisy and ask to make sure the food you order doesn't include wheat flour. However, after a while, it becomes almost second nature.

    I now make my own bread, and sometimes substitute corn/rice chips and tortillas (remember to read the ingredient list if you buy in store). Otherwise, my diet hasn't changed that much. Mostly, I just eat less junk food, including bagels, burgers, pizza, cakes, etc., especially when I eat out.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013
    #78
  29. roman40

    roman40 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Messages:
    309
    There is absolutely no benefits in wheat/rye/barley that gluten free grains don't provide. This withdrawal from Gluten you're having is extremely unusual, and you should see a doctor for it. What type of gluten-free grains were you eating as a substitute? If you eat any gluten, you will lose all the benefit of gluten free diet, assuming you have gluten sensitivity in the first place. In fact, it usually takes months for your body to recover from the damage done by gluten.

    BTW, some cases of Celiac disease cause sub-clinical symptoms, like occasional digestion issues, so you can continue eating gluten without becoming "seriously" ill, but when it comes to sports, even small issues can severely impact your performance.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013
    #79
  30. sundaypunch

    sundaypunch Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,660
    That's like saying that cutting sugar our of your diet has no effect on the body since you aren't intolerant of it.

    Have you tried gluten free? It may not be for everyone, but you will see some noticeable changes if you do this for 1+ months.

    Read "Wheat Belly" or some of Mark Sisson's (Mark's Daily Apple blog) books for more info.
     
    #80
  31. keithfival

    keithfival Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Messages:
    849
    Although I think everyone is a system unto themselves regarding food reactions, and a changing one at that, I'll offer my results with GF.

    I had constant body and especially neck aches for about the last 5 years. Felt like my bones were brittle and achy all the time. Googled fibromyalgia many times but there were certain key symptoms I definitely didn't have. Didn't really have joint pain, just felt achy all over, felt like I was 80 years old, weak and brittle and constant discomfort. (I'm 41). After reading about anti-inflammatory diets I decided to try cutting out gluten first since my wife is GF and I already know all the tricks and we have all the food.

    After 3 and a half months here's my exp:

    1) My body pain reduced by about 80%. A lot of the time it is totally gone. My neck still flares up and down sometimes, but at a much lower average level, and the rest of my body actually feels totally fine. No ache, not brittle, don't feel old. The reduction in pain was almost immediate.

    2) I did experience insane withdrawal symptoms between days 3 and 6. I googled them and found it very common. Horrible mood, deep unquenchable hunger, mental fog. Definitely felt like withdrawal from a serious drug addiction, 100%. Lasted 3 days, then I felt absolutely high for a couple of days. Then I had some crazy congestion/phlegm purging cycle that lasted for a good two weeks. Then back to normal.

    3) I agree with the poster that said gluten seems to have a similar effect as sugar but worse, in my case much worse. I noticed their similarities right away. After going through the gluten withdrawal I noticed I did not crave sugar at all for a week or two. Now I do have some sweets but it usually feels fine in moderation. A few very sweet things, like the frozen yogurt place I used to go to, make my neck hurt right away. But nothing like the one pancake I ate as an experiment a month ago!

    4) It definitely feels like an all or nothing thing as far as eating bread or other large chunks of gluten. It really seems to act like a drug (apparently it is related to opiates). I ate one pancake and felt terrible for about 6 hours. Once it got out of my system I seem to have no tolerance for it.

    5) Mixed results on trace/small amounts. I have eaten Clif bars from time to time (I still had a drawer full of them), which have barley malt which has some tiny amount of gluten, and felt fine. Other times I have eaten something with a sauce at a restaurant where they didn't know if it had any wheat in it and gotten a flare up. Maybe that is much more gluten than in a Clif Bar. For me it seems that real trace amounts are not a problem.

    6) I don't experience any other benefits besides pain reduction. The pain reduction is huge, I can't imagine ever going back, but I don't experience any other benefits - mood, energy, etc. In fact, if I'm not careful to eat enough before a match and bring lots of bars with me, my tank can empty out much quicker and more severely than before.

    Like I said, everyone is different, but I thought I'd through another case study on your pile.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2013
    #81
  32. keithfival

    keithfival Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Messages:
    849
    I had the exact same withdrawal symptoms from days 3-6, AND then severe cold/congestion symptoms (which I never get) which lasted maybe 2 weeks right after. I'm sure the congestion was related to the diet change/detox. Keep going, i think it is just part of the detox.
     
    #82
  33. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Messages:
    1,145
    Location:
    kentucky
    its unbelievable how many things have wheat in it. Probaly 80 percent of my calories are from this and sugar.

    Its addicting. Been reading joel wallach dead doctors don't lie vids on youtube. The guy is right on with many things but agressive with his products.


    I think its funny, some people think its okay if bread is whole wheat.
     
    #83
  34. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2004
    Messages:
    4,825
    Yeah echoing this thread..

    1) Its nearly impossible to eat zero carb. If you eat anything regular even say a store bough salad (with no croutons) you get carbs because even regular vegetables have sugar in them as does dressing etc.

    2) Sugar. Most Gluten subsitutes are chock full of sugar. My g/f likes to be gluten free. But she loves this little Japanese Sesame treats. They are all sugar and consequently fattening - even worse they are fried (which creates a lot of unhealthy chemicals)..
     
    #84
  35. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,451
    Interesting post. Thanks. I'd like to hear a rebuttal from the doubters and poo-pooers in the thread. If they can come up with one...
     
    #85
  36. Lefty5

    Lefty5 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    1,662
    I wanted to come back to this thread and report my experiences over time. I originally wanted to know if Gluten Free was "all or nothing" or if I could still cheat a bit and get the same benefits. All the hard core GF people act like you will suffer in hell if you happen upon a trace of gluten. I'm not talking Celiac folks but just us regular people who are trying the diet for various reasons.

    I've been GF for 3 months now, had amazing results on my recovery and reducing inflammation in my body overall. I love it and I'm still GF 98% of the time.

    Now back to my initial question of "all or nothing". I have drank beers, ate burgers with buns, but no more than once in a given week, or less. I can tell no difference when I cheat like this on a small scale. I would imagine if I returned to my normal diet of bread every day, I'd be hurting, but for now, I've got a nice formula going to enjoy life, enjoy bread when I really want it, while still enjoying some awesome results athletically.
     
    #86
  37. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2011
    Messages:
    1,475
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    my experience is similar but a bit different. I, too, am probably 98% GF. About once a week I might have tacos with a flour tortilla, or maybe even (gasp) a piece of carrot cake. About twice a month I have a belgian ale.

    And what I notice when I do that is my waist immediately grows about an inch, then 2 days later it's back to where it was before the gluten. Just immediately bloats me, every time.

    So I'm finding my desire for those items is getting less and less the longer I abstain.
     
    #87

Share This Page