Golfers elbow and possible causes..

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by roc17355, May 8, 2012.

  1. roc17355

    roc17355 Rookie

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    So i seem to have developed some Golfers elbow recently and although I know there are or can be numerous factors im just trying to get a little insight. Basically I am just looking to determine what may be the leading factor causing the inflammation. Is it more likely due to ground stroke or service motion or could it have more to do with racquet spcs/string. I know it is hard to tell with out viewing my strokes/service motion but I'm just trying to build a knowledge base. Im 6'3" 185 and fit so I dont believe its the racquet but I play with an RDiS 200 x-1/CoFocus at 51/48. Thanks in advance.
     
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  2. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    I've had golfer's elbow recently, too, but I'm almost completely recovered at this point since switching frames. My Babolat APDGT with poly/syngut hybrid strings was too harsh on my arm. I switched to the Pro Kennex Ki 5x with full multi.

    My strokes didn't change. The form on my backhand is really good, which is probably why I didn't get tennis elbow. I have good form on my serve too, but I do rely on topspin and some heavy slices thrown in there, and I understand that topspin and slice serves contribute to golfer's elbow. My forehand can use some improvement. Part of the problem is me hitting off-center. I've actually read posts where someone recommends that you just hit the sweetspot every time, but I'll spare you that horribly idiotic piece of advice. I think the other problem on the forehand has something to do with my grip and trying to impart excess topspin. I still use an eastern grip, but I'm trying to move it to semi-western and hit the ball more in front of me. I know how to do it, but muscle memory has a way of creeping in when you're not paying attention to it.
     
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  3. roc17355

    roc17355 Rookie

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    I too hit heavy topspin on my forehand and I think may my grip, which I would say is close to semi western may need to go more western. I feel like I also maybe take the ball to late Andre have to really muscle and pronate to get the spin I'm trying to produce.
    Maybe rotating towards western and working on my contact point will help a bit. Thanks for the insight.
     
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  4. akamc

    akamc New User

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    In my experience, there are many possible causes for GE:
    - Technique issues (wrong grip, late contact point, muscling "rollover", newly changed movement) with forehand, serve, or forehand volley
    - Grip size too small (constant need for squeezing tight)
    - Not relaxing grip between shots
    - Overly stiff stringbed (poly strings especially if old, or at overly high tension)
    - Overly stiff and/or light racquet frame with thin or unyielding replacement grip

    It can be hard to isolate the exact cause. Have you been doing something differently or made changes to your equipment? First, you have to stop and allow time for your GE to heal (charliefederer has nicely covered why). Then you can try to separately deal with each variable and see what makes a difference.
     
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  5. roc17355

    roc17355 Rookie

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    I'm pretty sure its a combination of over use and bad/different technique. Ive never had any arm issues before but I did fracture my pelvis and tibial plateau in October and I'm sure since coming back after being out for 4 months I have either developed some bad habits or just over worked it. A 33 yr old breaking a hip, go figure.
    I do have a friend who is a teaching pro and he seems to think it comes from my service motion just from seeing me play in the past but I havent been for a lesson since the hip injury. Probably the best thing for me to do at this point.
     
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  6. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    My GE experience and stop playing now.

    Poor Volley Technique for My Injury. I wanted to increase the pace on my volley. I somehow got the idea of rotating my upper arm forcefully with the forearm and racket bent at 90d.. After a few volleys, ping, ouch!, golfer's elbow pain hit me. The next time that I warmed up for a match it suddenly hurt again, and worse. I played the match in a lot of pain. I will never do that again. I believe that I farther tore the tendon probably at the bone attachment. I have since learned that I was applying internal shoulder rotation to my upper arm. That motion is driven by the large lat muscle and can be very forceful.

    ISR is also used in the forehand and serve. Once I talked to an opponent and he had GE. When I watched him hit forehands in our match I could see that his stroke was very stressful at the elbow.

    I believe, but do not know, that golfer's elbow comes from the normal acceleration pattern of the golf swing. Also, possibly, instant injury may occur when the golfer hits the ground with his club head and it suddenly stops with his arm accelerating.

    During my injury I read a brief discussion by Dr John Cianca who said that playing on an acute tennis elbow injury (like any other tendon injury) for more than a 'few weeks' can lead to poor healing on the microscopic level - the tendon fibers heal permanently disorganized. I stopped playing immediately and believe the article may have prevented a chronic GE injury for me.

    Search Charliefedererer and TE or GE for recent threads and look at his discussions and illustrations especially on healing.

    How can an injury heal if you continue to do the same stressful thing that caused the injury in the first place? You should see a Dr.

    Sorry for the downer view but I believe it.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2012
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  7. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    Chronic injuries are very hard to overcome and require drastic measures, but fortunately, not all GE problems are that bad. Mine was bad enough that I would feel a shock to my arm while hitting a forehand during warmup, my serve was about 50% of what it is now, and I couldn't do certain exercises in the gym, like barbell curls. Every time I lifted something in the house with my right arm, I would feel it.

    After I changed equipment my healing went a lot quicker. I continued to play tennis, and I continued to use the same form I was using the whole time. Now I can do barbell curls in the gym, and lifting objects is no longer painful.
     
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  8. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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  9. jwbarrientos

    jwbarrientos Hall of Fame

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    I am still dealing with GE after 5 months, really better but far away from ok.

    In my case the cause is a combination of tennis combined with long period of using notebook and driving (manual shift).

    Being the main cause, tennis contributed from different points.

    1st. Late contact in forehand (SW grip)

    2nd. Kick serve

    I went thru many ways to heal it, last round was a cortizone shot and very estrict protocol to recover, nowadays I am allowed to play 1.5 hour per week avoiding serve and overhead hits (using 2/3 of power)

    Aditionaly moved to PK Ki5, that frame with 45 lbs looks perfect so far, I will be reviewing my technique with a coach in a month or so when is expected to get my clearance to play tennis with no restriction.
     
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  10. jk816

    jk816 Rookie

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    I also developed GE within the last 12 months and am still working through it (~90% better; it wasn't severe at any point, but very persistent, even with a few months rest).

    In analyzing my factors, I found it was very much a function of my forehand and serve. Pronation heavy motions produced the most detrimental effect; serving was the worst (it initially flared when I was increasing work on my serve last summer). Increased use of WW style forehand motions was also a contributor (which is more pronation heavy than the linear style).

    Also factors were gripping the racquet too tightly and late contact while playing big hitters.

    My racquet shouldn't have been an issue (a PB10 mid (heavy and flexible)with soft multi strings, though I use a gut hybrid now strung in low 50s) and my form is pretty clean. I use a SW grip & an eastern 1 HBH. I'm your size 6"3" 190, and heavy racquets have not been a problem for me. Begin 46 doesn't help though.

    Of all the therapies I'd tried, aggressive ART had the most beneficial effect. One other item of note, while my pain was only as the insertion at the medial epicondyl, I have a strong suspicion it wasn't solely from the forearm flexor tendon; some relationship with the intermuscular sceptum of the arm and tricep insertion seemed to be a factor as well, motions of which could have led to irritation of the epicondyl (which could possibly explain the benefits some on these boards have found with tricpe extensions WRT the GE). I found nothing onthe web about this though, so it might be just me.

    Good luck!
     
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  11. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    Do you have any videos of your serve? The arm for pros is almost straight when internal shoulder rotation occurs. Otherwise I believe that it might stress the elbow in particular.

    Someone posted a few months ago with an arm injury. He hurt his arm seriously practicing serves. There was a picture with his arm in a sling. I could see an unusual bend in his elbow in his serve video. I have tried to find that thread but could not.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2012
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  12. jk816

    jk816 Rookie

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    No, never kept any such videos. But from my general recollection the pronation in my serve tends to come at/just after full extension so the arm is pretty straight.

    But the pronation has been a major element in my GE. On the forehand, the wrist/hand goes from neutral in the backswing through rapid supination in the racquet head drop and then pronates at/through contact (particularly so on the WW motion, where the up and across motion makes it more pronounced). That's a lot of tugging and forced use of the forearm flexors, which over time (especially with any overuse tightness) translates to a lot of pulls on the tendon and attachment.

    Pronation on the serve usually comes naturally, although at times the tendency to try to snap it off for a little more pop probably hasn't helped. It could also be here that racquet weight could actually be working against me; not sure. I'll know more when / if I get back to serving. I've never really gotten my serve back where it was before shoulder surgery a few years back.
     
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  13. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    Last week I got a new, slight GE pain - non-tennis arm. I believe the injury occurred when we had some trees cut down and I moved some awkward logs. I'm going to avoid using it for anything too heavy or for exercises that cause any pain for 2-3 months, until after it is pain free for a while.

    I would not play if I were you. When you play again at least video your forehand and compare it to forehands with the proper technique.
     
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