Got Bagels?

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Cindysphinx, Apr 30, 2010.

  1. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    I wonder how often players win sets without giving up a game. Maybe we can find out? If you win a set without losing a game or a tiebreak without losing a point, shout out.

    If you eat a bagel . . . shout out if you feel like it and maybe we can help you feel better? :)

    So far this season, I have three bagels to my name.

    3.5 doubles last week -- -0 and -0
    3.5 doubles today -- -3 and -0

    Today was interesting. Opponents computer-rated 3.5s who were the type who come to the net on everything but aren't especially strong up there. Their mere presence at net probably earns them a lot of UEs, which is probably how they usually win.

    Cindy -- thinking today would have been a double bagel if she had hit her darn BH properly
     
    #1
  2. bodieq

    bodieq Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2010
    Messages:
    164
    I'm sorry if this is a little off-topic, but every once in a while I'll see tournament or league scores posted that go something like: 0-6, 6-0, 6-1....and I've always wondered how did that happen?

    Cindy, good-job on the bagels. Those are tough to get, so it's always a feel-good accomplishment
     
    #2
  3. Spokewench

    Spokewench Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    May 22, 2008
    Messages:
    588

    I had a similar game last year. 1-6; 6-0; and finished in a tiebreaker where I lost. The reason this game was so weird was because the wind was gusting at around 50 miles per hour
     
    #3
  4. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    35,717
    Quite often, two very evenly matched players will play a bagel set, then go the other way.
    We can only concentrate for SO long. Other guy can only walkabout for SO long.
    Happens quite often to me in both singles and doubles.
    However, as 4.5 playing 6.5's, I would get both bagels....:shock::shock:
     
    #4
  5. dcdoorknob

    dcdoorknob Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2010
    Messages:
    3,560
    I've been taking my lumps this year as a player who would not have been bumped up in a normal year but was bumped up in the great bump up. So far I haven't sniffed a win yet (all singles matches) but I've 'only' taken 2 bagles in 10 sets played so far, and no double bagles.

    I mean it hasn't been pretty but it could have been worse I guess. It has at least made it clearer what I need to improve upon.
     
    #5
  6. Annika

    Annika Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    566
    I love bagels. But I haven't seen any in the last few years in doubles. I can't carry anyone anymore. I want to be carried instead. And no one has.
     
    #6
  7. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,167
    Location:
    DE
    I had a lot of bagels in mixed this year ... But only 1 bagel so far this spring. I was really close to a second one but lost focus.
     
    #7
  8. Steady Eddy

    Steady Eddy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,544
    Location:
    Arizona
    I used to think a bagel meant a complete mismatch happened, but sometimes that's not so. Consider that one in thirty-two times a set of coin flips will come out 6 heads 0 tails or vice versa. If two players are evenly matched and neither one's serve is a big factor, they can easily have a bagel or breadstick set.
     
    #8
  9. Totai

    Totai Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,397
    I gave a bread stick today, does that count?
     
    #9
  10. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    3,412
    For the life of me I cannot double bagle anyone!

    I play on a league (not in USTA league) has a set time schedule I'm always beating players like 6-2 6-1 and then we'll just play another set because we have more time and that's when I usually end up getting a 6-0.

    I think I end up getting bagles in these sets because I start going for more shots and hitting harder. My thought process is that I'll miss more if I'm trying to hit lower percentage shots, but then I end up getting the 6-0!
     
    #10
  11. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    I have eaten bagels in singles, and both losses were different.

    The first time, I ate a bagel in the first set because I made all of the UEs. In the second set, I changed tactics and came to net and managed three games or something.

    The second time, I came to net a lot in the first set and won four games. Because I lost the first set (and because I was getting tired), I stopped coming in to the net in the second (and my opponent basically figured out my weaknesses). Second set was a bagel.

    I think what I have taken away from these two bagels is that you shouldn't change tactics just because you lost the first set in a competitive score. But you should change when you got killed.
     
    #11
  12. damazing

    damazing Rookie

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    247
    I've served up bagels in 3.5 (1) and 4.0 (1) this year, but the adult season is just getting underway.
     
    #12
  13. grimmbomb21

    grimmbomb21 Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2005
    Messages:
    1,084
    Location:
    CA
    In my last league (3.5), I had a three week span of wins at 6-0 6-1, 6-0 6-0, and 6-0 6-2. But playing weekly league matches and playing in tournaments where I may have to play two or three matches a day, three days in a row, is two different animals all together.
     
    #13
  14. larry10s

    larry10s Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    3,976
    a bagle is the first set . a bagel with cream cheese is the second set. a bagel lox and cream cheese is the third set
     
    #14
  15. athiker

    athiker Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,656
    In 4 USTA 3.5 singles matches this spring I've served 2 bagel sets but 1 of those was against a self-rated 3.0. The other bagel set match had a number of games that were quite tight and some even went to deuce, they just each broke my way in the end.

    In 2 USTA 3.5 doubles matches I have eaten 1 bagel set. I swear they even tried to give us a game but we couldn't manage to even take that one! One of the opposing players had a "benchmark" rating and the other was self-rated.

    No bagel sets served or eaten in practice sets, singles and doubles, vs other team members/friends and none in a 3.5 singles Compass league I play.
     
    #15
  16. MNPlayer

    MNPlayer Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2008
    Messages:
    420
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    I have experienced this a few times (lopsided scores both ways in the same match). Sometimes it's because someone figured something out in the 1st set, sometimes its because he was just really streaky. Generally, I think it would look a lot closer if you counted points instead of games. You see this in the pros all the time when they show the stats after a match. Even in a blowout, the loser won maybe 40% of the total points. I wonder if this is merely a statistical thing or if certain players just play the big points better.
     
    #16
  17. decades

    decades Guest

    maybe move up for some competition? or don't you like even mathes?
     
    #17
  18. Klaus

    Klaus New User

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Messages:
    78
    Lots of carbs for my opponent last Saturday

    I double bageled a guy whom I haven't played in 7 months. He went underground to take clinics, participate in a league and take lessons so he could come back and beat me. Prior to that, he enjoyed a healthy diet of breadsticks, and occasionally got two games off of me, and once in awhile, ate a bagel.

    Last Saturday, we warmed up and I noticed he was greatly improved; both his FH, BH and serve were much, much better. Of course, during the time he went "underground," I also played clinics, leagues and had tons of private lessons and set up dozens of singles matches.

    I am not sure if he just got nervous when it was time to put away points, but I tried really hard to return every ball offensively when I could, and switched up my serve to confuse him, and hit to his BH really low, since he uses a two-handed backhand.

    I told him that while he had all his strokes, and they were much improved, we needed to play more so he could calm down. I have been tehre, and it just takes time to actually be able to utilize newly learned strokes in match play.
     
    #18
  19. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    Got another bagel in my singles match, -0 and -2. Don't think it qualifies, as opponents was one USTA level lower than me and was playing up.
     
    #19
  20. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,167
    Location:
    DE
    That is called carbo-loading
     
    #20
  21. BMC9670

    BMC9670 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Messages:
    2,986
    I started playing tennis mid-30's and learned from/trained with my wife, who is a good 4.5 player. After playing club and in 3.5 flex leagues for a couple of years I felt pretty good about my game and decided to give a tournament a go.

    Well, being a noob I entered a local OPEN tournament instead of a 3.5 NTRP and drew the #1 seed in the first round. 0-6, 0-6. After the shock of the initial few games, it wasn't that bad. I knew what I was in for so I took the challenge of just trying to get some points. And I did. Got some games to deuce and had some decent points. I actually felt bad for him as this had to have sucked on his end.

    To add to the story, I didn't know who the guy was until a few weeks later when I see him sparring with the pro at our club. Turned out he was top 5 in section in 45s and ranked nationally. So, now I know...
     
    #21
  22. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    Oh, snap! Got another double bagel in 3.5 doubles today.

    Both opponents computer-rated 3.5s (both in their second season at 3.5), but who don't win much. One was a big lady who hit the ball a ton but who had a lot of misses. The other was her small, quick sidekick who didn't hit with much power.

    Isn't it hilarious that these double-bagel wins won't count to move me toward 4.0?
     
    #22
  23. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,167
    Location:
    DE
    That all right ... even though the USTA does not count the double bagel ... you have lots of fun serving them.
     
    #23
  24. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,052
    Location:
    NorCal Bay Area
    Yes, this is where you need to judiciously make sure you lose at least one game.
     
    #24
  25. jc4.0

    jc4.0 Professional

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    803
    Too bad you like to brag about bagels, they happen for all kinds of reasons. 80% or more of points at your level occur because of your opponents' errors, not because of your winners; they probably were just having an off day. So TRY to be humble, and next time you get bageled - just offer some cream cheese with a smile.
     
    #25
  26. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    Hey, opponent's errors have the same result as my crushing a winner: A point for me!! :)
     
    #26
  27. jc4.0

    jc4.0 Professional

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    803
    That's correct, I'm just suggesting that if you added them up, you might be humbled by the number of their unforced errors which gave you the W. You're probably one of those players who celebrates when your opponent double-faults....
     
    #27
  28. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    Come on. Don't be a kill joy wet blanket stick in the mud!

    Nope, I wouldn't be humbled at all by UE counts or any of that. A win is a win is a win. Besides, getting bagels takes some mental strength. It's easy to hit a bad streak in a match -- especially for me -- so I feel good that I am learning how to get and hold a lead.

    Don't rain on my parade, man! :)
     
    #28
  29. krizzle

    krizzle Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2010
    Messages:
    152
    I don't have bagels, unfortunately. I played a guy yesterday though, and beat him 6-1, 6-1.
     
    #29
  30. bodieq

    bodieq Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2010
    Messages:
    164
    You won 6-1, 6-1 ?? Gosh, you suck. :) It's at least good that you were able to squeeze out the victory...barely.
     
    #30
  31. iankogan

    iankogan Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Messages:
    101
    They won't? WHY? Are you saying that 6:0 6:0 scores will be thrown out by the NRTP rating algorithm?
     
    #31
  32. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    That is what some have proven in this thread.

    So if I can keep gathering double-bagels and keep working on my game, I can be a dominant 3.5 and the computer will never move me up because it will remain ignorant of the extent of my domination. :)

    I mentioned this to a friend recently (that my 2 double-bagels wouldn't help my rating) and her immediate reply was, "Well you need to start giving away a game then."

    **NEVER!!!** BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!
     
    #32
  33. Ripper014

    Ripper014 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,863
    I personally find people celebrating their bagels a little distasteful... all it means is that you need to find some better competition. I personally don't find much joy in winning tennis matches where my opponent cannot challenge me. I would rather lose a close fought well played match than win with double bagels.

    Just be as cheerful when you are on the otherside of a double bagel.
     
    #33
  34. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,167
    Location:
    DE
    From the Middle States web site ... but similiar verbage is posted on the Southern and other district web sites. I assume it is a national thing as I would not think the ratings formula could be different by region.


    What data is not used to calculate year-end ratings?
    • Combo Doubles
    • Non USTA Leagues/Fun Leagues/Flex Leagues
    • NTRP Tournaments
    • Non-Sanctioned Tournaments
    • 6-0, 6-0 match results

    From a mathematics perspective I think a pure equation would have a hard time dealing with a 6-0, 6-0 score .... much like trying to divide by zero. You would think they could just program in that a score of 0-0 must be considered the same as 6-0, 6-1 or something like that ... but I think in practice the reason they do not consider the double bagel is because there is no frame of reference as to how much better or worse you are than the opponent. You could have a double bagel if A 5.0 was playing a 2.5, 3.5, or a 4.5 and without winnig at least a game it is hard mathematically to distinguish a difference.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2010
    #34
  35. bodieq

    bodieq Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2010
    Messages:
    164

    I think there might be a distinction between what you're saying versus the spirit of this thread. You seem to think that anytime there's a bagel set it simply means the opponent was much inferior and/or lower level....but that's not necessarily true. If you play someone of equal level and obtain a bagel set, I think there's some reason to be happy with that accomplishment (maybe "celebration" would be too strong a word), because the reality is that it's tough to win a "6-0" set against an opponent even if they're slightly below your level because it requires a sustained amount of focus/concentration to do, and being able to ride that momentum through each game of that set/match.
     
    #35
  36. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,052
    Location:
    NorCal Bay Area
    I'm kinda in between these two opinions. I think if I score a 6-0 set win with the other set being more competitive, then I take some pride in that. Because that typically would arise with an opponent that is at or near the same level as me, but where I'm playing particularly well / focused for that set.

    But I take no pride in a 6-0 6-0 win because that just indicates that my opponent is much weaker and it says little about my play.
     
    #36
  37. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    5,425
    bagels and breadstick?

    been a long time experiencing this flip flop: was slow to start out and feeling kinda down physically. opponent was on fire - aced me a number of times in the 1st set to give me a breadstick. the 2nd set i warmed up, started dialing in my big serves, etc. gave the opponent a bagel.

    cream cheese and coffee would have made it complete.
     
    #37
  38. jayserinos99

    jayserinos99 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,884
    Browsing through the thread, I'm wondering if Cindy isn't a sandbagger at 3.5?

    Anyway, a couple weeks ago I played an 8.0 mixed playoff match and gave our opponents double bagels. It's a good feeling to be able to remain focused the whole match and be able to count the unforced errors with one hand. One of my biggest problems is to remain disciplined enough to not go for too much or try that tricky dropshot/angle and it really paid off for me that match.
     
    #38
  39. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    No, it doesn't necessarily mean you need to find better competition.

    It can also mean you played someone at the same level, you were stronger, and you somehow managed to be relentlessly consistent, play the big points better, maintain your focus over two consecutive sets, find answers to every strategic change they made.

    Getting and holding a lead is not easy in tennis, as we all know from watching the pros. A double bagel is something to be proud of, provided you're not sandbagging and are playing your level.

    And as you may have noticed from this thread, I have eaten one double-bagel. I learned a lot from it.

    Cindy -- who should have eaten more double bagels, but her opponents lost focus and let her skip off with a game
     
    #39
  40. Ripper014

    Ripper014 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,863
    Don't you consider this an oxymoron...?

    I personally have never learned much from slaughtering an opponent... I tend to learn more from a loss. You are a much better player than me if you can make strategic changes within a game... it takes me at least a game to realize the changes they are implimenting are even working.

    I think you know I like you as a personality on this board, and I would be the first to cheer you on if you had a big win over an opponent you had never beaten before or support you through a bad loss. But a double bagel is not something in my opinion to necessarly be posting on the board... enjoy your win privately and move on. No one really cares you double bageled someone... what appears to be boasting doesn't look good on you.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2010
    #40
  41. iankogan

    iankogan Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Messages:
    101
    dizzlmcwizzl, thank you for the info! I found the entire FAQ that you referred to here: http://www.tennesseetennis.com/pdffiles/NTRPFAQs.pdf. And the general NTRP FAQ here: http://www.usta.com/USTA/Global/Act...~/media/9632B137909C410CA9B0F5CC094B50BD.ashx

    Interesting stuff. I don't think there are any 'sophisticated' reasons behind not counting 6:0 6:0 scores. In fact, I'm 100% sure why double-bagels are thrown away. It must be because in the NTRP database there is no way (or no 'easy' way) to distinguish between a 'real' 6:0 6:0 match score and a 6:0 6:0 score generated due to a default of any kind. It would clearly not make sense to count the latter scores, and so the valid 6:0 6:0 scores are thrown away too...

    As for the NTRP tournament matches not being used to calculate ratings, I'm afraid there is not even a weak excuse like the one in case of double-bagels. My guess is, those are not counted due to the complications it would introduce to the dynamic ratings algorithm. These would be very minor complications mind you, of a kind that any junior programmer could resolve - and yet it seems the system designers decided to take the path of the least resistance.

    All this reeks of gross incompetence on part of the developers who originally designed the NTRP system software. This incompetence shows up in the horrible tennislink user interface (which of course runs on top of the NTRP database), but apparently it goes beyond the presentation of data to the core of system design.

    OK, enough computer science, back to tennis. I was somewhat disappointed that in the two USTA league singles matches I played so far this year I allowed my opponents to take a game each. It turns out however that 6:1 6:0 scores in those two matches were perfect in terms of the impact on my dynamic rating. Had I succeeded in double-bageling my opponents, the results would not have counted... frigging amazing. Well, if I'm up 6:0 5:0 in a future match, you better be sure that I'm throwing that final game. Four double-faults if I'm serving, four returns into the back fence if I'm receiving. And on the flip side, if I were down something like 0:6 0:3 in a USTA league match, fighting to get on the board would not seem appealing... in terms of the dynamic rating it would make sense to tank all the way, to a double-bagel loss. Disgusting. Thank you NTRP software designers, great job.

    Edited Fri May 15 - correction: I was wrong guessing the reasons why NTRP tournament ratings are not included in the DNTRP calculations. Actually, they are... or could be. It depends on where you are playing. From Colorado Tennis Association NTRP FAQ (http://www.coloradotennis.com/cta/website.asp?Dept=NTRP&Sec=NTRP Rating&Page=NTRP FAQs):
    22. Do USTA sanctioned tournaments count in the dynamic rating system? If so, can a tournament win be used as one of the three “strikes”?
    Each section has the option of including tournament results for year-end calculations. If your section includes sanctioned tournament match scores, they will not be calculated into the system until after the national championships. Sanctioned tournament results do not generate strikes; however, they will impact your year-end rating. Open/Age Division national tournament results are entered into the NTRP system after league national championships.

    And it looks like tournament scores are included here in Colorado:
    8. What matches are included in the ratings?
    All NTRP tournament results, except mixed doubles, and all USTA and CTA league matches, except mixed doubles and World Team Tennis, are included. Two results are needed to generate a published rating. Players who play only mixed doubles will generate a mixed doubles exclusive rating provided they play 2 or more matches. Players who only play tournaments generate a tournament exclusive (T) rating.

    I'm still standing behind my reasoning on why 6:0 6:0 scores are excluded.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2010
    #41
  42. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    Go figure.

    People post about their achievements and experiences on this board all the time. Folks usually give them a pat on the back, especially if their achievement is due to the hard work it takes to improve in this sport and they came by it honestly.

    I work hard on my game. I can now beat people I couldn't beat not too long ago. And best of all, I can keep my foot on the gas through two entire sets, which proves I'm getting better at the mental part of the game. If you don't see that as an achievement worthy of praise, that's fine.

    If no one cares . . . well, there are lots of things here I don't care about on this board. I think it would be poor manners to hop on those threads and say so, so I don't.
     
    #42
  43. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    Nah. I think at this point I am a strong 3.5, but I'm not a 4.0 because I tend to lose to 4.0s. In fact, I think my results this year will keep me at 3.5 for 2011. Especially since the double bagels don't count.
     
    #43
  44. Ripper014

    Ripper014 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,863
    Do you lose 6-0 6-0 to 4.0's? If not then I would submit you are closer to your 4.0 competition than your 3.5 competition.

    Just because your results allow you to continue playing in 3.5 (since your double bagels don't count), doesn't mean you would not benefit more from playing in 4.0 where your game could improve playing better competition. If the whole thing is about being a better player... be on the trailing edge of your competition not the leading edge.

    I have always contended that in order to play your best tennis you need to play those weaker than you (to learn to win), play those equal to you (to learn to compete), and to play those better than you (to learn how much more there is to improve).

    But the majority of those matches should be with your peers, and those matches would be tightly contested with you winning about 50% of the time.
     
    #44
  45. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    I am on three 3.5 teams this season and one 4.0 team.

    I am 1-1 in 4.0 play. In one match, my 4.0 partner and I upset two medium 4.0s in an amazing comeback. In the other match, I stank the joint up and lost to two 4.0s with a 4.0 partner.

    In spring 3.5 play, I am 3-1 in doubles and 1-0 in singles (against a 3.0).

    Which proves exactly what I said: I am a strong 3.5.

    My plan is to continue to play 3.5 until the computer moves me up. I will continue to play 4.0 whenever the opportunity presents. I will stick with 7.0 mixed and avoid 8.0 mixed until I start playing better against the men.

    So. No sandbagging here. Just someone who is improving her technical and mental game.
     
    #45
  46. bodieq

    bodieq Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2010
    Messages:
    164
    What's interesting is that you see these bagel-sets and blow-out matches even at a ATP professional level (although very rare). Last month I was watching TennisChannel and saw Nadal beat Verdasco 6-0, 6-1 in the Finals of Monte Carlo (I think it was MonteCarlo?). The thing is, Verdasco wasn't playing poorly....it's just that a healthy, motivated Nadal on clay was playing out of his mind in that match.

    ...The only point I'm making here is that sometimes you'll play people of comparable level as you and there might be a bagel set in that particular match on that particular day. Doesn't mean the opponent is way below your level. So whenever you get a bagel set against an opponent I think there's reason to feel good about that accomplishment.
     
    #46
  47. Ripper014

    Ripper014 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,863
    I think you fail to see the point... Verdasco is not Nadal... the reason they play at the same level is that there is nothing higher.

    I am not so much saying that lobsided scores cannot happen, more so that there is no need to openly celebrate them.

    I watched an old friend play a quarter final match in 3.5's last week, he was up against a seeded player. During warmup I was wondering what this guy was doing in 3.5, he had a solid looking game with great strokes. He should have been competing with 4.5 players. OK... once started the player became a pusher... :shock:

    He double bageled my friend and on matchpoint screamed out YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.... Now... call me a little sensitive... but him winning in my mind was never in question... I just didn't understand the outburst at matchpoint. It all seemed a little classless to me.

    There are times to celebrate... after a hard fought match or point... but I don't see the revelance of celebrating your total dominance of another player.
     
    #47
  48. Ripper014

    Ripper014 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,863
    No sandbagging...

    I don't have all your scores... but of the ones you have provided. One doubles match 6-0 6-0, second match 6-3 6-0 and your only singles match 6-0 6-2, along with your 1-1 record at 4.0 don't you think you are a little better than your current competition. You are averaging 1 bagel a match.

    But I understand if you want to stay in 3.5, winning is fun... but if you want to improve faster, move up and play better players.

    I get the most out of tennis when I have been pushed to the edge and was able to push back. Winning becomes meaningless if the competition does not challenge you.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2010
    #48
  49. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,067
    Dang, Ripper. Are you just trying to be contrary for the sport of it?

    I just returned from a 3.5 doubles match. The opponents are hoping to go to nationals and are a lock to make the playoffs in our flight. My partner and I lost 4-6, 7-5, 1-0.

    I am a strong 3.5, like tonight's opponents. I am afraid you will simply have to take my word for it.

    I am getting better. It shows in my results. I am playing up, and when I do play 3.5 I do line-ups where I play tough opponents and I don't hog the strongest partners. I am getting plenty of challenges, thank you very much.

    Why do feel the need to get on my case about it?

    If I manage another bagel against someone of my USTA level, I will be over the moon about it.
     
    #49
  50. equinox

    equinox Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,223
    Location:
    Cocos Islands, WA
    All the decent players got bumped up in one giant swoop..
     
    #50

Share This Page