Great fitness sites

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by Marius_Hancu, Nov 1, 2004.

  1. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    #1
  2. precision response

    precision response New User

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    #2
  3. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    I for myself consider that tennis players need true athletics training, including a considerable emphasis on speed and flexibility, beside strength, not bulking up.

    See:
    Should Athletes Train Like Bodybuilders?
    http://www.mercola.com/fcgi/pf/2004/feb/18/athlete_training.htm

    If one wants to train for strength, I would suggest them to do that in a olympic decathlete's way, slim and mean, not a bodybuilder's way.
     
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  4. vin

    vin Professional

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    I think it was you who recently pointed out that Agassi benches over 300 lbs. You don't think that helps his forehand? Do you not think that's 'bulking up'. You don't get that strong without growing some new muscle, and you can't grow new muscle without eating more calories than you use through daily activities.

    The challenge for a tennis player is to become as strong as possible without packing on too much extra weight. That's a tough thing to do. However, I think being stronger provides enough benefit to overcome the disadvantage of being heavier - within moderation. I think the 170 - 180 lb weight range for someone just under 6', maybe even a bit heavier, is ok for tennis. You'd be surprised how much muscle you can have packed on at this weight.

    Here's something to think about ...

    I played seriously in high school at about 130 lbs. I stopped playing after high school but picked up weight lifting. When I started tennis again, I was around 180 lbs. But despite the extra 50 lbs, I'm much faster and I hit the ball harder with less effort.

    In regards to your bodybuilder reference, competitive bodybuilders train only for size and definition. Their goal is presentation. Athletes lift weights to gain strength and stability. Their goal is functional. Just because you're lifting weights, even if they're heavy weights, doesn't mean you're 'training like a bodybuilder'. Is Agassi a bodybuilder because he can bench press over 300 lbs? And do you think there's a lot of decatheletes that can bench that much? It's possible, but I highly doubt it. The more endurance based a sport is, the harder it is for it's athlete to maintain muscle.

    I think too many tennis players are like many women with respect to weightlifting. They have the gross misconception that if they touch a weight, they are going to become huge like Arnold.

    Anyone who is healthy, in good shape, and is looking to get stronger for tennis can't go wrong with picking a few good compound exercises like squats, deadlifts, chin ups, incline bench press, etc, and trying to add a few pounds each week.

    I agree that flexibility and speed are important also. Especially flexibility. My main point is that tennis players shouldn't be so afraid of 'bulking up'. It's hard to gain muscle without gaining a little fat, just keep it under control. Give it a try and you'll realize how much work it is to put on just a few pounds of new muscle.
     
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  5. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    Putting 10-20lbs, is OK, but I am for doing that with athletically oriented exercises, not bodybuilding.

    And I am doing squats, deadlifts, chinups, the whole thing, etc, but my goal is personal records and improvement, and keeping my flexibility and explosiveness (thus Pilates and pliometry), not bulking up. As I have Sampras's proportions (but not talent:)), I think I better stop here. And check my sites, they describe such exercise.
     
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  6. vin

    vin Professional

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    That's great that you are doing those exercises.

    In my opinion, putting on 10-20 lbs IS bulking. Bulking doesn't have to mean transforming into hercules, just gaining weight. And the compound exercises mentioned are also used by bodybuilders, so in a way, you are using some bodybuilding methods. I'm only pointing this out to make sure that the terms you're using are not being misinterpreted and scaring anyone away from the benefits of weightlifting and gradually progressing to heavier weights.
     
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  7. precision response

    precision response New User

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    Thanks for the words of wisdom, Marcus Hancu :roll:

    You are obviously new to these boards.

    If you had simply taken the time to check out www.bodybuilding.com you would see that it is not all about sheer bodybuilding. STRENGTH conditioning is a very important factor in tennis, whether you like it or not, mate.

    I could go on, but Vin, seems to have hit the nail on the head!

    Happy hitting... :?
     
    #7
  8. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    precision response said:

    >STRENGTH conditioning is a very important factor in tennis, whether you like it or not, mate.

    Of course, but I recommend non-commercial sites which are oriented athletically and not bodybuilding-like. That's my personal reference. If you want another list, write one yourself, pls.

    The site you recommended sells lots of supplements, and I am for natural development. One better beware today, with all the side effects of the various stuff available.

    And there's quite many strength components and advice at the sites I recommended, you just didn't check them. Check the OUTSIDE series, it has strength every week.

    Check

    http://www.exrx.net/Lists/PowerExercises.html
    http://www.jeanpaul.com/standard.html

    there's lots of strength there.
     
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  9. vin

    vin Professional

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    I wouldn't argue that there's a lot of garbage weightlifting advice floating around on the internet and in magazines. If you want some practical and sound information on lifting weights, check out the books published by www.hardgainer.com Beyond Brawn and The Insiders Handbook on Technique are two excellent books. As with tennis, it's hard to get all the knowledge you need from a web site. You have to do some reading too.
     
    #9
  10. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    I'd have to agree with that.
     
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  11. gmlasam

    gmlasam Hall of Fame

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    Marius_Hancu,

    Where is it mentioned that Agassi benches 300lbs? Thats practically doing 6 45 lbs plates. The most I ever benched was 295 lbs, my one rep max, back when I played football. That is 4x45 lbs plates and 2x35 lbs plates.

    In football, we trained like power lifters, and did lots of squats, and clean and press type exercises with high explosion movements.

    If Andre does bench that much then he is training to be bulk up as what vin mentioned.

    Its really impressive Andre can bench that much considering his upper body does not have the mass that most people have that can bench about 300 lbs.
     
    #11
  12. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    I heard 315lbs with my ears, during one of his matches, from one of the commentators, I think on CBS. And I have it in my tape collection, but it will take me time to get to it, as I am not sure right now which one it is.

    I know, it's not this easy.

    OK, I found this:
    --------------
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20030729-120028-8894r
    A former UNLV strength coach, Reyes first met Agassi in the Runnin' Rebels weight room almost 14 years ago. The two formed a lasting bond, and Reyes since has presided over the intense workouts and vomit-inducing dune runs that allow Agassi to bench-press 350 pounds while outlasting players nearly half his age.
    ---------------

    I am not sure if this isn't just a figure promoted by Reyes or Agassi's camp.

    Even more impressive is that when Martina N was at the top, I heard the same figures (over 300lbs bench press) for her. Now, looking at MN's arms, would not be surprised either.
     
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  13. fjgarciap

    fjgarciap Rookie

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    Thanx to all of you for answering, this thread has become very illustrative.

    Marius Hancu: I'm also in the natural way of losing weight and will keep the same to reach my athletic goals. Again, thanx you and Vin.
     
    #13
  14. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    Good stuff, Marius! You are quite the Researcher...!

    - KK
     
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  15. Jonnyf

    Jonnyf Legend

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    i know this threads ancient and i've already daid this but what a credit marius is
     
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  16. Tomek_Pl

    Tomek_Pl Rookie

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  17. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    the first is heavily commercial, and full of bad artificial stuff.

    then 2nd one is a bad link.
     
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  18. Tomek_Pl

    Tomek_Pl Rookie

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    T-nation is a very good site IMO. There are lots of articles with good information. And tehy don't tell you to do 4 ex. of 3x12 for sports... I didn't find it so commercial, but sure, they sell some "eating stuff".

    The second is http://www.crossfit.com/ but it's not as good as T-nation.
     
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  19. waves2ya

    waves2ya Rookie

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    Was not always that way, Marius; better when it was T-Mag - but there are still gems

    http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=299const2
    http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=FA204EE993999152ED1030EDE65DAC16.hydra?id=459964

    Curious tho' how some of their best stuff (Running Man & 10 Tip for Flawless Squating) is unavailable...

    Btw - here's another good one for ya:

    http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
     
    #19
  20. bertrevert

    bertrevert Hall of Fame

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    Got knee pain, am reading up about it, (sitting with knees bent all day makes it worse) so thanks for this thread...
     
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  21. tennis4losers

    tennis4losers Semi-Pro

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    Dang andre is RIPPED
     
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  22. Mikael

    Mikael Professional

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    The www.crossfit.com site mentioned above is a great resource for overall conditioning, GPP style. It's probably the most thought out GPP (General Physical Preparedness) program out there. But the best thing on the site IMHO is the message board, which is full of very very knowledgeable people on all sorts of stuff: powerlifting, gymnastics, martial arts, HIIT, etc. They do frown on bodybuilding though.
     
    #22
  23. austro

    austro Professional

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    Have not followed the myriad of links here yet. But I would like to add that core stability is one of the most important things, often overlooked in tennis, running and in general. Your core stability will affect the way (efficiency) you use your legs, your arms, everything.

    Someone once provided a very illustrative image to me: "you cannot shoot a cannon from a canoe". That really drives home the importance of a stable core/rump for me.
     
    #23
  24. dp

    dp New User

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    I used to bench press 250 (I'm 5'8"), and being that bulky definitely affected by game, especially my serve, though I've later decided that had I stretched every day for 10-15 minutes, it may have changed everything. My swim coach also used to complain about my lack of flexibility.
     
    #24
  25. austro

    austro Professional

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    Agreed: second-most important thing is stretching!
     
    #25
  26. Fletch

    Fletch Rookie

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    Marius,
    Great sites, I appreciate it, they have come in handy.
    You might want to add these sites in your sig under jump rope.
    buddyleejumprope.com
    jumpropeinstitute.com

    The first one has a great book and DVD. Best ropes in the business. IMO
    The second site gives many different types of basic jumps, this will keep it interesting for a 20 minute workout. Just don't start at 20 minutes though. (from experience :shock: )
     
    #26
  27. tarkowski

    tarkowski Professional

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    There are quite a few misconceptions about bulking-up and strength training. Powerlifters, in particular, have more in common with sprinters and tennis players then their bodybuilding counterparts.

    Some basic facts:

    At the highest level, there are 2 muscle fiber types:
    - white cell (fast twitch)
    - red cell (slow twitch)

    For the non-heavyweights (those that need to be in some sort of weight class and are thus, constrained to a weight), powerlifters are some of the most explosive, quickest athletes around. If you are squatting and deadlifting 3x bodyweight, and benching 2x bodyweight. It doesn't matter how 'thick' you are. You will be quite explosive and quick.

    And that is what powerlifting and strength training are about: performance. Not bulking up. The goal is to lift as much as you can, and weigh as little as possible.

    There are 2 basic ways to increase strength without bulking up:

    - very heavy weights at lower reps ( <6, which can be tough on the joints)
    - lighter weight, higher reps, but here's the key... done with speed

    The 8-12 rep range with moderate pace is where most people seem to spend their time. And this is a means to add both strength and bulk. Good in most cases, but not the highest-performance means of training.

    Just some info...

    Here are a few more intriguing facts and notes:

    - given Andre's body size and weight (170lbs or so), I find it difficult to believe he can bench 315#. That's quite a good ratio for an ameature powerlifter who doesn't run around as much playing tennis. :) But it is possible!
    - At Andre's body weight (take him down to the 165# class), the current (non-drug-free) best bench press is 485#.
    - At 181# class, it is 540#

    There are 4 important features of a good bench presser, and it isn't about short arms and big chests.

    The keys are,

    1 - having a genetic disposition for high-percentage white-to-red-cell fiber count

    2 - optimium tenden insertion points within the joints.

    3 - technqiue: If you want to leverage your joints (read, injure yourself in the spirit of winning, not health), you can abandon the 90-degree angle rule and let your arms go straight back, leveraging your triceps against your lats.

    4 - finding your optimimum grip - which is usually more narrow than you'd expect. Out of all the skeletal muscles in the body, the triceps has the highest ratio of white-to-red cell fibres, which should read, "most powerful for their size" - and when training to be light-weight, can be more advantageous than the chest in high-performance bench pressing

    Enjoy!
     
    #27
  28. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    #28
  29. tarkowski

    tarkowski Professional

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    I agree. I put it in here because I saw a lot of questions/statements about lifting, bench pressing, and bulking up.

    How do I move the post?
     
    #29
  30. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    asking TW, but takes time, too complicated

    better to post a copy in the other place.
     
    #30
  31. legolas

    legolas Banned

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    #31
  32. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    It is amazing the people that still dont understand weight training in 2006.It is one of the best things you can do for your body+tennis game period! If you play tennis regularly+ do any aerobic excersize,the chances of bulking up with some weight training are slim to none.
     
    #32
  33. diredesire

    diredesire Super Moderator

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    I stuck this thread because I thought it was a good resource, especially for the Health & Fitness section in general. If you'd like to have a more updated sticky, just ask Marius or something... If anyone wants to compile a "FAQ," just send me an e-mail with your proposed FAQ thread, and if it's good to go I'll stick it.
     
    #33
  34. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    great idea.
     
    #34
  35. BrownyPoint

    BrownyPoint Guest

    The best one I've found is http://www.trainwithmeonline.com

    Mainly because it offers everything that all those other sites listed here offer (and more i'd have to say)... And it's free unlike those ones.

    :mrgreen: :p :eek:
     
    #35
  36. jackofromalsager

    jackofromalsager Semi-Pro

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    #36
  37. joeyscl

    joeyscl Rookie

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    "powerlifters are some of the most explosive, quickest athletes around. If you are squatting and deadlifting 3x bodyweight, and benching 2x bodyweight. It doesn't matter how 'thick' you are. You will be quite explosive and quick."

    Its true, i read that a study shows that Olympic Lifters have the highest average for Vertical Jumps--- Yes, even higher than NBA players
     
    #37
  38. Goldy

    Goldy Banned

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  39. jkonecne

    jkonecne Rookie

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    Being thick isn't always good though. The thicker you are the more you generally weigh, therefor the more you have to carry for long matches and can hurt you in the long run. Endurance would be better than pure explosive power in my opinion.
     
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  40. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    deleted, sorry
     
    #40
  41. healthwise

    healthwise Guest

    Hello to all

    My little sister just joined the tennis class last weekend. And she is preety going good at the moment. But this week she is loosing her stamina. She is taking diets, but she cant practice even after playing 20 min non stop. I am worried about her. So Here i am to look for some suggestions, site links and information. I hope these links has some power boosters or something like that.

    In anycase if any one has any suggestions I would really love to see..
    thanks again

    Charlene
    Italy
     
    #41
  42. chess9

    chess9 Hall of Fame

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    What kind of diet? If she wants to lose some weight, cut back on calories about 10% maximum, and add a bit more protein. If she has just started tennis she is burning more calories than she was, so going on a strict, very low calorie diet will only result in her being tired, losing muscle mass, and then quitting! Grab her by the ass and tell her to eat sensibly. Cut out the junk food. Cut back on the pasta a bit.
    Ciao!
    -Robert
     
    #42
  43. dave333

    dave333 Hall of Fame

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    Get her to eat more protein, its balances blood sugar levels keeping one feel less hungry.

    I have same problem with my sister except I can't make her lose weight XD
     
    #43
  44. Eviscerator

    Eviscerator Banned

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    :-D :-D :-D
     
    #44
  45. jjrl2004

    jjrl2004 Rookie

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    Hmm I'm just under 6 feet, well 5'10" actually, and I am 110 pounds. I have decent muscle, just wished I had a bit more =P
    And that last sentence you wrote, how true...However, I couldn't put on body fat if I wanted to, so I just gain weight by working out.
     
    #45
  46. MilanATP#1

    MilanATP#1 New User

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    I highly reccomend www.rosstraining.com . I own two of his books, and they are top notch. He is a man who not only talks the talk but walks it everyday too. Although he is geared more towards combat athletes, the principles can be applied to any sport. Tennis is much like fighting I would say, short bursts of speed, full body actions. I dont know :)
     
    #46
  47. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    Hey do you guys know any TENNIS specific training site to build up the proper muscles and joints for tennis ??
     
    #47
  48. babolatlife

    babolatlife New User

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    well marius those websites really helped
     
    #48
  49. bronco_mba

    bronco_mba Rookie

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    Try the USTA Player Development Strength and Conditioning Routine linked in the OP.
     
    #49
  50. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    Bodybuilding.com has a sports training section, it's not just a bodybuilding site.
     
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