Greatest Footwork of All Time!

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by Limpinhitter, Sep 3, 2011.

  1. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    I don't know if footwork has been discussed on TT. If so, not since I joined. Anyway, I'm going to do my best Hoodjem imitation and start with a list that I think is pretty close and let you goils and boils chime in with your opinions. By footwork, I'm talking about all aspects of court movement most importantly shot preparation but also anticipation and court coverage. For my first two, I'll explain why I have them there.

    Roger Federer is not the fastest player ever, he's not the greatest tennis athlete ever, but, he has the most efficient, most effective footwork, and covers the entire court with the greatest efficiency and least effort of any player I've ever seen. Further, his shot anticipation was supreme. I have to believe that he spent as much time working on his footwork as any other aspect of his game. It's just too good for him not to have.

    I don't know what there is to say about Jimmy Connor's footwork that can't be seen, and marveled at, just by watching him play. He is THE shot preparation GOAT! He looks like a batter in a batters box, loaded up and ready to swing on every shot, well before the ball arrives. His adjustment steps were the most energetic, most precise, most . . . everything, I've ever seen. As a result, he had the greatest shot set up of all time. But, unlike Federer, I can't say that Connors' footwork was something he spent a lot of time working on. IMO, it was more a matter of necessity given the nature of his straight arm strokes and reliance on upper body rotation for nearly 100% of his swing path on both sides. He didn't have the luxury of adjusting to imperfect set ups by adjusting his swing. He made his adjustments with his amazingly quick feet.

    I will also proffer that, although I never saw Tilden play (other than grainy video), I've read, from numerous sources, including Tilden himself, how much time and effort he devoted to his footwork. And, what little grainy video there is of him readily available, footwork was obviously a big part of his game.

    1. Roger Federer
    2. Jimmy Connors
    3. Rod Laver
    4. Ken Rosewall
    5. Ilie Nastase
    6. Bill Tilden
    7. Bjorn Borg
    8. Ralph Nadal
    9. Michael Chang
    10. Lleyton Hewitt
    11. Pancho Gonzales
    12. John McEnroe
    13. Frank Sedgman
    14. Stefan Edberg
    15. Tony Roche
    16. Arthur Ashe
    17.
    18.
    19.
    20.

    Help me out here!
     
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  2. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    Graf, Evert, Hingis, Clisters among the women.
     
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  3. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    What the hell :shock: Am I in the right section of TW? Are my eyes deceiving me? Is my mind playing tricks on me?

    Personally I'd put Edberg higher and include Sampras somewhere in there, while I think he rellied more on his explosive first step and athleticism you still have to put his footwork up there with the best IMO.
     
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  4. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    BJK and Suzanne Lenglen among the women as well!
     
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  5. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    Edberg had great footwork and he's up there. If I can get a concensus to put him higher. Pete might have been the flat out fastest player of all time, and he hit on the run as well as anyone. But, I noticed that his shot preparation was particularly suspect, especially in his early years on tour. I specifically recall him having problems setting up in his Davis Cup loss to Guy Forget. I also saw him lose a match to Sergi Bruguera where he had problems setting up against Bruguera's moonballs. Again, if I can get a consensus, I'll add Pete based on his speed and court coverage. But, his footwork technique was not top 20, IMO.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2011
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  6. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    Graf was a double whammy. All that brute speed and flawless technical skills before, during and after hitting the shot
     
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  7. rdis10093

    rdis10093 Hall of Fame

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    prime hewitt was awesome in fw department
     
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  8. Devilito

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    i agree, Federer
     
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  9. BTURNER

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    this is another area in which Evert made the absolute most of whatever athletic gift she was given. Almost always anticipating, getting in the right position, balanced and ready with her racket prepared and her mind made up. So many 'faster' women could there a little faster , just to make fundamental errors because of imbalance, poor racket position or follow through . Martina said in one of her books she used to have foot work problems. She'd get to the ball almost too early and not be balanced or mistime the swing. I think she credited Estep with correcting it
     
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  10. BrooklynNY

    BrooklynNY Hall of Fame

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    Including Johnny Mac, and even Edberg and not Sampras? That just tastes funny.


    I'd almost agree that Fed has the best footwork, however in the modern era I almost think Nadal's is a bit better, the courts are slower and he can get to his forehand easier.
    I think the modern crop of players footwork is superior in the sense that the balls/pace of play is a split second slower, and therefore we see a lot of run around forehands as the predominant display of footwork, as opposed to net coverage, and transition game, where a player like Sampras, or Edberg, would be considered great. However, citing a few matches where Pete's footwork to get to a forehand may have been suspect is kind of silly, everyone plays bad points, and even for bad stretches of time. The USO 95 final, Pete's footwork to hit forehands was amazing. Name a great player who has never hit a ball into the bottom of the net, or gotten jammed trying to make a move around the ball, it happens.

    Anyway, this is not about that, I'd maybe move Nadal up, and add Pete Sampras somewhere in the top 10. Connors should also be moved down, possibly to like a 8-10 as well. To me he was kind of a sloppy guy, with tons of explosiveness and ability - in my opinion, I still love him though.
     
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  11. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    borg. federer is second. both moved very smooth but borg had more natural speed.
     
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  12. Carsomyr

    Carsomyr Hall of Fame

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    I think Federer and Borg should be 1 and 1A.
     
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  13. Netspirit

    Netspirit Hall of Fame

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    Federer. His footwork is one of his primary weapons.

    It is not surprizing since most 1HBH players, most "asymmetric" players with stronger forehands and most all-courters _need_ great footwork to have any chance to succeed on tour, and Federer is exactly an asymmetric 1HBH all-courter.
     
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  14. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Rosewall was well known in his day for having the best footwork. He was almost always on balance to hit his shots.

    Arthur Ashe thought Rosewall and Pancho Gonzalez were fantastic in footwork with Rosewall being number one.

    Borg not only had incredible speed but his footwork was incredible.
     
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  15. Zimbo

    Zimbo Semi-Pro

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    Don't forget about Jonah Kriek, Mecir, Wilander, Joker, and Andy Murrary.
     
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  16. Netzroller

    Netzroller Semi-Pro

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    What exactly are we talking about here - absolute level? or by the standarts of their respective era? or how much their game was based on footwork?

    Not to be disrespectful, but if we talk about absolute level of footwork, we have to throw lots of these legends out of the list...
    I know some guys can't see it, but the game has progressed in the last 50 years. Prime Rod Laver would look like an amateur compared to guys like Nadal, Hewitt and Djokovic. It was a totally different situation back then, no way his footwork would be great or even average nowadays...
     
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  17. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    We are waiting for Datacipher to agree on this one.
     
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  18. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    Well I can accept that one ranks fed ahead of borg. but borg only at 7 behind connors?
     
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  19. Joe Pike

    Joe Pike Banned

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    Did correct your list a little bit for you.
     
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  20. fRa

    fRa Rookie

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    What do you mean by asymmetric players?
     
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  21. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    How did I forget "The Big Cat?" The shame! All good choices! I do remember Wilander, not so much for his footwork techique, but, for his uncanny anticipation. I've got Djokovic in there, barely. I'm not sold on his footwork as top 20 material. But, his court coverage is phenomenal!

    So far, we've got 2 nominations for Sampras. But, as much as I admire Pete as a top 3 GOAT contender overall, I've seen the guy play a few times and, IMO, his footwork was perhaps his weakness. Remember, list this is primarily about footwork technique and shot preparation/set up, with range/coverage and anticipation as secondary considerations. It's not a list of the best or fastest athletes.

    For those questioning Federer at the top, remember, I'm considering him at his peak. The first time that it appeared to me that Fed had lost maybe 1/2 a step was in the 09' USO final against Delpotro. It's surprising to me because, even today, he's still young enough to have all of his speed if he's totally healthy.

    Anyway, here's where I'm at so far.

    1. Roger Federer
    2. Jimmy Connors
    3. Rod Laver
    4. Ken Rosewall
    5. Ilie Nastase
    6. Bill Tilden
    7. Bjorn Borg
    8. Ralph Nadal
    9. Miloslav Mecir
    9. Michael Chang
    10. Lleyton Hewitt
    11. Pancho Gonzales
    12. John McEnroe
    13. Frank Sedgman
    14. Stefan Edberg
    15. Tony Roche
    16. Arthur Ashe
    17. Novak Djokovic
    18. Andy Murray
    19. Johan Kriek
    20. Mats Wilander
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2011
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  22. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Zimbo made some super suggestions.

    Incidentally footwork should not only be side to side but north and south. If you look at it that way, players like Rosewall, Laver, McEnroe, Borg, Sedgman, Connors, Nastase and Mecir have it over a number of players on the list.
     
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  23. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

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    Edberg......no contest.

    This is not to say he was the fastest or most explosive but his footwork was pinpoint perfect and totally efficient. Throw the whole players in there prime arguement out the window as well. Edberg had the greatest footwork for his entire career both at the net, the baseline, and everything in between .....on every surface. The man was truelly poetry in motion. Absolute balance and total body control. Even today his footwork is perfect. Think of him as the Fred Astaire of tennis. Its just easy to look past him because his movement was completely effortless and natural.

    After him I really dont know. Borg was an unbelievable mover and Federer is right there with him (Borg that is).....possibly even better.

    Then you have these guys like Conners ho basically would hop and split step to ever ball.....great mover.

    One mistake people make on this is they only look at baseline movement. Many of these so called great movers look like clowns when they come to the net.

    For the current crop?????? Federer is a little streaky now with his movement. I really like Gasquet and think he is very underated in his movement. He moves very well at the net as well as everywhere else and is seldom off ballance. He is a really fantastic mover. The only negative I could say would be that he wastes a little bit of movement with so many small steps. Its really fun to watch though. A rediculous amount of little steps while his upper body is as still as a statue.

    Nadal is a great mover but its very physical and forced like the rest of his game. It does not flow flow like a truelly great mover with great footwork. He gets away with it because he is an unbelievable athlete.

    I will also throw Rafter in there somewhat. Kind of a loud mover but he was quick as lightning and never off balance from 1997 on through the rest of his career. Maybe the best I have ever seen at improvised movement.

    Also....lets not forget about Laver. He could move and had some exceptional footwork as well. Its just hard to find a lot of footage on him.

    Still though. If you want to study footwork and efficiency in order to steamline your movement Edberg is the man.....No contest. You really cant get any better than perfection and he had it.
     
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  24. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    I agree, but, I want to be careful not to turn this to turn in to a speed/atheticism list. It's primarily about shot preparation and set up.

    I'd like some input on some of the Four Musketeers, especially Cochet and Lacoste, who I've read played a lot in no man's land, which, it seems to me would put a tremendous premium on footwork.
     
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  25. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    I was thinking of Cochet also. You read my mind.
     
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  26. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Sliding

    I think probably sliding should be considered as one aspect of footwork. Everyone thinks of footwork as taking steps, but sliding is critical on clay -- and of course players nowadays are even turning hardcourt sliding into a skill.

    Nadal may not get the top spot for footwork regarded as steps, but for sliding on clay I can't think of anybody better.

    Sampras did not have sure footing on clay and said so himself. American players like Connors and McEnroe sometimes seemed out of their element on red clay (particularly in damp conditions, I think); at the '81 FO, an article in Sports Illustrated noted that neither man knew how to slide properly. I do think that Mac and Connors, when playing at their very best, moved fairly well on clay, but that was not always true.

    Terrific description of footwork in the OP, and a great idea for a thread. We did have at least one debate about footwork, but it was probably in a thread about best movement overall.
     
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  27. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Great points. I forgot about sliding on clay.
     
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  28. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    There are so many great clay court sliders, I'm not sure where to begin with that. But, I don't want to start including players only for their sliding. If they're great sliders and have great footwork otherwise, then sliding should be a factor.

    As soon as you said sliding on hard court I couldn't help but think of Monfils. He's certainly quick and has great range, but, I've never paid that much attention to his footwork. Having said that, Rosewall was a great slider on grass, especially in his late teens/early 20's.
     
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  29. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    I wouldn't put someone on the list merely for sliding, but I think it's a factor that can help separate players who are otherwise comparable. Certain players grew up on red clay and seem to have had no real issues with their footing anywhere, regardless of their style (players as different as Borg, Edberg, Federer).

    Yes sliding on grass is yet another factor, particularly if you're talking about courts made slippery by rain.

    Sliding on hard court is something else. How does that even work? Monfils, Djokovic, Kim Clijsters, what they do is spectacular, but how do your ankles not turn? I don't understand it.
     
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  30. Mahboob Khan

    Mahboob Khan Hall of Fame

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    Definitely, I seek higher ranking for Stefan Edberg, and would like to include this beast from Spain, Nadal.
     
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  31. Laver777

    Laver777 Rookie

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    hewitt should be at least number 2
     
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  32. FearOfTheDark

    FearOfTheDark Rookie

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    What about Jamie Murray?
     
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  33. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Few had Edberg´s north to south footwork, too.

    Cash and Curren , and also Rafter ,didn´t have good lateral movement, but were extremely fast into getting to the net, so they should also be included, IMO.
     
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  34. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Federer is (in a sense) a former player. The guy out there on the tour at present is not the same Federer.

    I call him "Papa Fed." He's doing fairly well at the USO . . . but not great like the previous Roger G. Federer.

    P.S. I'd also put Edberg high.
     
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  35. chrischris

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    Steffi Graf
     
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  36. Manus Domini

    Manus Domini Hall of Fame

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    In that case, I'd say Rosewall should be at least in the top 2. Considering he could always set up his backhand and almost never missed with it, that deserves a great mention. From what I've seen and heard, he had amazing footwork, possibly as good or better than Federer's (though Fed has the advantage of the bouncy split-step, which wasn't really used in Roswall's time aside from return of serve)
     
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  37. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    I would agree with that.

    http://www.tennischannel.com/columnists/tenniscope.aspx
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1142430/index.htm
     
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  38. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    Edberg's place on the list is based mostly on his footwork at the net. His backcourt foot work and set up on his backhand was also great, but, one of the reasons his forehand was a bit erratic was because of a noticably lower level of intensity in his set up on that side. So, where would you put Edberg on the list?

    I started with Nadal at #8. That may even be too high. Although he is one of the greatest defensive players of all time, and perhaps the greatest of transitioning from defense to offense, he gives himself a lot of extra time by playing 10-12 feet behind the baseline and relying on super high, looping, heavy topspin groundies to give him time to get in to position. It's not all about his footwork, IMO.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2011
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  39. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    Rosewall had great footwork and incredible range for his size. But, he was no Jimmy Connors in precision footwork. Connors stands alone in that catagory. The intensity of Connors' footwork was even higher than Laver's. Although, Connors did stand a bit further back and gave himself more time than Laver did. Laver was the greatest transition player in the history of tennis and always looked to attack. I would put Rosewall #2 in that catagory. Having said that, Connors would be #1 on the list but for Federer's amazing, unparalleled efficient movement and nearly the precision of Connors. The closest I've seen to the kind of efficient movement of Federer is Nastase. But, Nastase lacked the precision of Connors and Federer. Mecir had incredible movement as well, and got down to the ball amazingly well for 6'3", based more on brute leg strength than efficiency, IMO.

    PS: In case anyone is wondering, I called both Laver and Nadal the greatest transition players of all time. I should have been more clear. I was referring to Laver's transition game from back court to net, and Nadal's transition game from defense to offense from the backcourt. Laver also had a great transition game from defense to offense from the backcourt, but, he didn't have the equipment to do it as effectively as Nadal does, so it's hard to compare that aspect of the game between them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2011
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  40. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    player that covers 2/3rd of the court with the FH. obviously federer can hit a good BH but he covers most of the court with his FH. so he is an asymmetric, FH dominate baseliner unlike say guys like novak or agassi.
     
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  41. 2ndServe

    2ndServe Professional

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    great list, Edberg needs to be moved way up. BTW do any of you guys know the footwork drills these guys did or have a youtube of them?
     
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  42. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

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    Edbergs were actually very simple. He spent a lot of time on court pretending he was playing tennis. Just out the by himself playing imaginary tennis with no ball. Picard would be courtside just watching him sometimes telling him to slow down at times and speed up at others.

    Oh, he was a jumprope freak too. Edberg did lots of jumpropes and sprinting on the track. Just a very natural, gifted athlete, with unbelievable balance.
     
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  43. 2ndServe

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    thx, everyone wants to talk rackets, strokes, strings, instruction, creatine, getting stronger but the best players of all time had 1 thing in common great footwork. Some had nothing forehands, some couldn't hit a lick on their bh, some with mediocore serves, etc but all #1 players had footwork and could move imo. It's the best weapon in tennis.
     
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  44. BorisBeckerFan

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    It's hard for me to comment on tennis from the 70's and earlier but just from what I've seen, Federer is number one with Edberg number two. I would put Sampras at three. His foot work wasn't quite as sound as Edberg or Feds but clearly made up for it with natural athletic ability.
     
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  45. BTURNER

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    Goolagong never seemed out of position for a shot even when she was in one of her fogs. The footwork never seemed to dessert her
     
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  46. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

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    Federer is smooth from the baseline but once at the net he is somewhat mechanical. I still put Edberg at one. Federer at two. Morg at maybe three.

    Sampras I just dont know. He could be off balance quite a bit. Kind of gangley when he was having an off day. Lots of lunging around the net. Lots of off kilter backhands as well. Movement into the forehand side was a work of art whern he was on. Nowhere near the level of Edberg. Edbergs movement into the forehand side was completely sound it was his technique on the shot itself that was a little strange. Continental grip where he would cup the ball. It was actually quite a bit better in the later years on the tour. He seemed to get better rotation into the shot. Sampras was also not a great clay court mover either.
     
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  47. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

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    cant forget Wade either. She was a great mover in that era. I actually enjoy watching old footage from her matches and I detest womens tennis for the most part.
     
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  48. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    Ooops! I accidentally edited my list that was in this post instead of quoting it. Unfortunately the ranking that was here is lost and this is my latest ranking for this date.

    Here's the latest reluctantly giving some weight to the Edberg "squeaky wheels," even though they haven't responded to my observation that his footwork on his fh side was a weakness. if anyone thinks I've moved Edberg too high, speak up. I've also added Muster, who I previously overlooked. He had great shot preparation and set up and worked extremely hard at it although he wasn't as graceful or efficient, or as gifted an athlete, as some above him.

    Still looking for input, and please don't just give an unsupported opinion or neglect to suggest a ranking.

    1. Roger Federer
    2. Jimmy Connors
    3. Rod Laver
    4. Ken Rosewall
    5. Ilie Nastase
    6. Stefan Edberg
    7. Bill Tilden
    8. Bjorn Borg
    9. Ralph Nadal
    10. Miloslav Mecir
    11. Michael Chang
    12. Lleyton Hewitt
    13. Pancho Gonzales
    14. John McEnroe
    15. Frank Sedgman
    16. Tomas Muster
    17. Tony Roche
    18. Arthur Ashe
    19. Novak Djokovic
    20. Andy Murray
    21. Pete Sampras
    22. Johan Kriek
    23. Mats Wilander
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2011
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  49. magnut

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    #49
  50. magnut

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