Greatest mens grass court player

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by illusions30, Oct 19, 2013.

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Greatest ever mens grass court player

  1. Tilden

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Sampras

    46.0%
  3. Borg

    2.3%
  4. Federer

    37.9%
  5. Laver

    11.5%
  6. other

    2.3%
  1. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    1969 AO was NOT a 128 man draw.

    Win 7 matches is MUCH harder to win than only 5. If it was only 5 matches, Roger would have won a lot more than just 17 slams. In fact you needed to win 5 matches to reach the semifinal and Federer made 23 straight semifinals.
     
    #51
  2. gunnz_j

    gunnz_j New User

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    Borg....just because!:)
     
    #52
  3. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    The quality of Laver´s opponents far outweights that fact.You have to factor in quality and not quantity when loads of journeymen are used to fill the draws.
     
    #53
  4. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    No, the depth and talent in tennis and every sports have increase immensely since the 60s, and spread across the globe.

    Please read this article.

    [url="http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/story/2011-08-28/Most-global-of-games-stretches-to-every-corner/50162904/1]Tennis stretches to every corner of the globe[/url]
     
    #54
  5. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    I believe that it is over-stating it to say Rosewall had problems on grass.

    Rosewall was a very good grass-court player. Witness his grass slams at the Australian Championships in 1953, 1955, 1971, 1972, and the U.S. Championship titles in 1956, 1970--beating Hoad, Ashe, Mal Anderson, Roche.

    At Wimbledon he just met other really good grass-court players who were better that day (e.g. Nielsen, Drobny, Hoad, Roche, Newcombe, etc.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
    #55
  6. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    In the last 12 years tennis happens to be a sport with a small head and a long tail.Just the opposite of the 1950´s and 1960´s.
     
    #56
  7. CaptainCool309

    CaptainCool309 Rookie

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    I couldn't have said it any better.
     
    #57
  8. Wim

    Wim Guest

    Bjørn Borg. He retired in his twenties.
     
    #58
  9. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    It doesn't matter how you insult the modern athletes in tennis and other sports, but that will not stop the sports from keep growing stronger.
     
    #59
  10. Chico

    Chico Banned

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    Borg gets not love here. :shock:
    Had to vote for him to even up the votes a bit.
     
    #60
  11. YaoPau

    YaoPau Rookie

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    I see you're a big Federer fan, and he obviously has a great case. From June 2003 - June 2008, Federer was undefeated on grass (66-0), and that's an amazing record to me.

    But Borg was undefeated on grass for six years (June 1975 - June 1981). Laver won 13 Grand Slams + Pro Slams on grass. At the very least they deserve to be in the running, and IMO each has a legitimate case to be #1.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2013
    #61
  12. robertharris

    robertharris Banned

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    Borg doesn't really have a case for #1. He was great but he doesn't hold a record mark of any sort.

    Laver, Tilden, Sampras, and Federer are the only reasonable candidates.
     
    #62
  13. robertharris

    robertharris Banned

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    and he wasn't winning Wimbledon again either. Unless he somehow avoided McEnroe but no way he was ever beating McEnroe there again.
     
    #63
  14. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Based on what???
     
    #64
  15. Laurie

    Laurie Professional

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    Based on the fact that he probably wouldn't have retired if he felt he was going to beat McEnroe in major finals.
     
    #65
  16. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Borg was certainly losing the edge to Mc Enroe but that meant almost nothing.The fact that Borg had finally yielded his W crown took a big burden off his shoulders, and he certainly has told us about that later on.There is no reason he wouldn´t have found a big motivation in battling out the thread that his younger main opponents, like Mc Enroe and Lendl represented.It would have kept him going for a while.
    No, definitely Mac had a very limited, if any, effect on Borg´s decision to retire.In fact, Jmac would be the only reason Borg had NOT to retire at 25.
     
    #66
  17. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Your last sentence is a joke. Either Mac pushes Borg into retirement or he has nothing to do with it. He certainly didn't encourage Borg to stay longer, that's a fantasy.
     
    #67
  18. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    You don´t get ir , do you?

    I stated he did have a very limited effect on that.Of course, it is my judgement based on my impressions of that time, but none of us is inside Borg´s mind to know the truth.

    I clearly said that Mac, more than a reason to retire was a reason to stay.Thus, Mac had nothing to see with Bjorn´s decision.
     
    #68
  19. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    No possible decision on who is the best grass courter until we split : old grass till 2000 and, from there on, current grass.In fact,polar opposites.
     
    #69
  20. robertharris

    robertharris Banned

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    Based on that Mcenroe not even playing well (even Borg admitted McEnroe didnt play well, but tried to put the loss down to "loss of motivation") beat him in the 81 Wimbledon final without even needing a 5th set, and then easily beat an extremely in form Borg who had just crushed Connors at the U.S Open. Based on that Mcenroe was younger and only getting better, while Borg was past the middle of his career and likely already peaked, yet Mcenroe already was starting to dominate him on all surfaces except clay.

    Borg could win another big non French title perhaps, but it would not have been by playing and beating McEnroe if he did. Lendl, Connors, or Wilander would have needed to provide help somehow.

    Anyway the very fact Borg tries to excuse his losses in 81 and the few events he played in 82 with lost motivation makes it hard to believe he could have continued, let alone won a bunch more slams, at all anyway. He is given way too much benefit of doubt for choosing to retire, which is his own chose, not something he should be given extra slams for. We never talk about how many slams Hingis, Henin, Sampras, Graf, would have won had they played longer, so while we can talk about it with Borg, to literally give her unofficial slams is crazy.
     
    #70
  21. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    " her"?

    Borg had beaten Mc Enroe at the MSG a few months earlier...as well as Connors and Lendl, all of them one after the other.
     
    #71
  22. mike danny

    mike danny Legend

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    it is tough to call. in today's era the comp is between sampras an federer. i would go with federer simply because he is the only man with 8 wimbledon finals. he has won 7 just like pete but managed to make an extra final and won 5 titles in a row. and the final he lost he lost it by the narrowest of margins to a fellow GOAT candidate. you could make an argument sampras never had to deal with a fellow GOAT candidate at W
     
    #72
  23. goran_ace

    goran_ace Hall of Fame

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    Over the course of a career of course you have to go with the Federer or Sampras discussion, but what about in any one tournament? Richard Krajicek looked pretty much unstoppable at Wimbledon in '96 (?).
     
    #73
  24. robertharris

    robertharris Banned

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    Sampras in 1999, Federer in 2006, Borg in 1978, McEnroe in 1984 were all at a higher level than Krajicek in 96. Krajicek in 1996 did hit an exceptional level for a 1 slam wonder though, straight setting a pretty good Sampras.
     
    #74
  25. SamprasisGOAT

    SamprasisGOAT Semi-Pro

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    I can see why this poll is so close because its 2013 and roger is still fresh in people's mind and also Sampras and federer both have similar records at Wimbledon but I just think if people watched the 7 finals Sampras won and the 7 federer won they would realise samoras was far more dominant and talanted grass court player. He was a beast at his best and would squeeze the life out of any opponent who was giving him trouble. Also Sampras would have never lost to nadal on grass the games just don't match up well for nadal.
     
    #75
  26. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

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    I'd go with Laver. Grass courts were more common in his era, at least on the amateur tour, but he won so much on grass. After that, probably Federer, then Sampras.
     
    #76
  27. MauricioDias

    MauricioDias Rookie

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    In my age is probably more difficult to understand how good other players were before Sampras, but he is the Best on grass for me. Federer is good also, but considering grass i liked much Sampras games.
     
    #77
  28. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    If we made a top 10 list, no doubt Newcombe should be included...
     
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  29. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    No, Sampras wasn't more dominant. He had to win in 5 sets more often than Federer. Federer holds the record for most consecutive win on grass, and made 7 straight finals.

    Keep in mind it was Federer who snapped Sampras 4 Wimbledon winning streak.
     
    #79
  30. Laurie

    Laurie Professional

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    Intersting that you say that because Federer was the one who had to fight in three five set finals in a row between 2007 and 2009 whereas Sampras only played one five set final in his 7 finals.

    From memory I don't recall Sampras playing too many five setters at Wimbledon, he ddin't play any 5 set matches in 1999 or 2000, don't remember any in 1995, he did against Korda in 1997 but that was only one match that year. In 1994 he only dropped one set all tournament in the semifinal against Martin I think. In 1993 he beat Agassi in five sets, that's only about four five setters in an 8 year period.
     
    #80
  31. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    McEnroe played his very best in that match.
     
    #81
  32. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    umm, no, the 81 wimbledon final was also an excellent match, with both players playing very well .....
     
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  33. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    it takes long time to become a grass court specialist, at least at Wimbledon.Borg had the edge of time and experience over the Lendls and Wilanders, and was beating Connors day in day out on grass.Only Mc Enroe was a real serious challenge, but the way both finals went ( 1980,81) there was no reason for Borg not to believe he could be a Wimbledon Champion again.
     
    #83
  34. helterskelter

    helterskelter Professional

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    Sampras played a wonderful final I'm 1999, but for much of the rest of the tournament, he didn't" look that good. Anyway, Agassi was not an opponent who troubled him on fast courts. Pete's two best wimbledons for consistent high-level tennis were 1994 and 1997. They were also his two best years overall. But for a loss of concentration or nerves from 3-3 in the 3rd against Todd Martin, he'd have won in 1994 without losing a set. He dropped serve twice in the whole tournament in 1997, IIRC.
     
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