Greatest Players by Decade

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by ATPballkid, Jan 15, 2007.

  1. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

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    1880s - Renshaw / Sears -- Bingley Hillyard
    1890s - R. Doherty / Wrenn-- Dod / Atkinson
    1900s - L. Doherty / Larned -- Douglass Chambers
    1910s - Wilding -- Douglass Chambers / Mallory
    1920s - Tilden -- Lenglen
    1930s - Budge -- Wills Moody
    1940s - Kramer -- Brough
    1950s - Gonzales -- Connolly
    1960s - Rosewall -- Court
    1970s - Borg -- Evert
    1980s - Lendl -- Navratilova
    1990s - Sampras -- Seles until she was stabbed
    2000s - Federer projected -- Henin-Hardenne/Sharapova projected

    Tennis was not so much an international sport before the 1920s and 1930s (really became an international sport in 1925). Therefore, it is harder to have a best player of the sport for those earlier years -- except you have to go with Wilding in the 1910s.

    There are some very good players --- Cochet, Lacoste, Perry, Vines, Crawford, Hoad, Laver, Newcombe, Connors, McEnroe, Edberg, Becker, Wilander and Agassi among the men and Jacobs, Marble, du Pont, Hart, Fry, Hard, Gibson, Bueno, King, Goolagong, Graf and Hingis among the women --- who just were not quite good enough to be considered the best players of their decades.

    Things look great for Roger Federer and Justine Henin-Hardenne or Maria Sharapova as Players of the Decade for the 2000s. Going to be hard to take a position against them based on what they have accomplished already and what they are likely to accomplish over the years remaining between 2007 and 2010.
     
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  2. bribeiro

    bribeiro Banned

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    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
     
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  3. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

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    There is essentially no way that Steffi Graf would have been the top women's tennis player of the 1990s without a fan of hers stabbing Monica Seles in the back with a knife.

    Of course, Navratilova was the female player of the decade for the 1980s ... Monica Seles was well on her way to being the female player of the 1990s until a Graf fan stabbed Seles in the back with a knife.
     
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  4. chrisfromalbany

    chrisfromalbany New User

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    why is Roger projected, I think he is lock as of now.
     
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  5. maxply

    maxply Rookie

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    why not Laver for the 1960's the man won 2 grand slams and 11 slams overall.
     
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  6. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Greatest Players by Centuries


    19th century - some Brits ....
    20th century - Borg -- Graf
    21th century - (can't be projected as of now)

    Condi
     
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  7. Sagittar

    Sagittar Hall of Fame

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    we're in 2007 already and i dont think that in the next 3 years we'll have anyone to beat fed's accomplishments and consistency ..
    so he's ofcourse the player of this decade ..
     
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  8. Grimjack

    Grimjack Banned

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    Three straight calendar grand slams by somebody else wouldn't convince you? Of course it's not going to happen, but chronologically, it still could. Until there is no mathematical way somebody could best Fed's accomplishments, one must only project, if one is to remain fair and unbiased.

    At the same time, if it were, say, Nadal who were to win three consecutive grand slams, but only after he had hired somebody to run onto the court and stab Federer in the back with a knife, then you'd have to take that into account and consider Fed the true "player of the decade" anyway. Just like the OP did (correctly) for Seles.
     
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  9. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Nadal hired someone to stab Seles in the back with a knife?
    And Seles lead Nadal in the rankings with more than 4,000 rankings points?

    Wow, Dimjack, what a story ....

    Condi
     
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  10. VikingSamurai

    VikingSamurai Banned

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    Borg - Graf 20th Century..

    Thats just funny!:D


    You are F'n delusional.......Seriously!

    How about Emerson- Court

    And the thing is, I didnt have to change history to get that pairing...:-D

    I would have put Sampras ahead of Borg, but he crossed centuries..

    Why do you keep doing this to yourself?.. I am starting to think you have some sort of sickness, and for that I feel for you!
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2007
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  11. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    The most important and prestigious vote went to Steffi:


    "Greatest of the Century

    Steffi won the 'ball sports' category at the ``World Sports Awards of the Century'' in Vienna. Unfortunately she couldn't attend the ceremony because of a viral infection. Michael Jorden also won an award in the same category. The event was sponsored by the International Olympic Committee (IOC).

    Former world heavyweight champion Muhammad Ali won the martial arts category while the soccor award went to Pele. Former U.S. sprinter and long jumper Carl Lewis won the men's award in athletics and general sports while former Romanian gymnast Nadia Comaneci took the women's category.Former Australian swimmer Dawn Fraser was close to tears when she received her women's award in the water sports category while Mark Spitz won the men's category.France's Formula One driver Alain Prost won the motor sports category while the winter
    sports awards went to Alpine skiers Annemarie Moser-Proell of Austria and Frenchman Jean-Claude Killy.

    The jury included IOC president Juan Antonio Samaranch, Prince Albert of Monaco, FIFA president Sepp Blatter and motor racing chief Max Mosley."


    Could it get more official?
    Actually I don't know of ANY vote - at least not outside of the USA or Australia - which didn't see Steffi victorious as greatest female tennis player of the 20th century.

    Do you?



    Condi
     
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  12. VikingSamurai

    VikingSamurai Banned

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    Well they do seem to give alot of awards away these days.. Seems to be an awards show for everything now days...

    Its just a shame that the people alive at the start of the century werent around to give their opinions..

    Anyway, I dont need to keep telling everyone that you are a ******, because you are doing a great job of that yourself.. Although, for a ******, I will say one thing.. You do have alot of good googling, cutting and pasting skills!

    Oh, and no life;)
     
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  13. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    The next retarded post from you.
    The people alive at the start of century don't know the whole picture because they weren't able to watch the sports stars of the middle of the century and the of the end of the century.

    This award was sponsored by the International Olympic Committee (IOC), the premier sports body of this planet. The ceremony was held in the State Opera in Vienna with head of state present. Muhammad Ali, Carl Lewis, Mark Spitz and almost all the other winners were there (Jordan and Graf were absent due to match/illness).

    The IOC refers to Graf as "Greatest Sportswoman of the 20th Century in the Ball Sports Category" since then. And no, Navratilova, Evert and Court didn't win ....


    Yeah, those damn facts!! :D :D

    You seem to suffer a lot from learning that the world prefers Graf to US-American citizens Navratilova and Evert.
    Well - live with it, Jingo-Boy .... :p

    Condi
     
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  14. VikingSamurai

    VikingSamurai Banned

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    Huh?....

    I am an Australian, why would I have a thing for American players?

    Regardless off that fact, I dont care what country they came from. And I am happy to give Graf her props for being a great player.

    Stats dont add up to facts. And the only fact I am worried about is that Margaret Court is the all time champion. Not because she is Australian. But because she won more Grand Slams than Graf did. And that was just in singles!..

    You never mentioned what country you are from, and why you have a hatred for the United States?..

    Infact, most people dont even know what sex you are.. How about you add a few stats about yourself, or cant you Google those facts?

    We'll see...;)
     
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  15. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    I think Connors and Laver should fit in there.
     
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  16. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Same language, several wars fought together. Australia essentially is a US bridgehead in the Pacific (comparable to Hawaii).



    Court is debatable. Although she won most of 11 Ozzy titles against some Australian amateur girls only. Won only 3 Wimbledons. Was the best player in 1962/63, 1965, 1969/70 and 1973. Six years only.

    Graf won her 22 slams against the best players in the world. Won 7 Wimbledons. Was best player in 1987-90 and 1993-96. Eight years.

    I have no hatred for the US. As a matter of fact I like the present administration (Bush, Cheney, Ms. Rice) a lot. I miss Rumsfeld already.

    I'm from Nigeria living in Belgium. Female, 35 years old.

    Condi
     
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  17. VikingSamurai

    VikingSamurai Banned

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    So now you are going to give me a history lesson on Australia are you?..

    Your first comment above just shows just how uneducated you really are my love.. Normally I would get upset at someone making such a silly comment. But then you gave your stats below, and so at your age, you should probably know a little better?..

    I think you are an angry middle aged woman that obviously has more time on your hands than friends.. So I will just let your nonsence slide.. I myself am 32, but I simply wont allow myself to bow to your pittyfull level..

    You post for reactions, not conversation..... Its ok to have a little fun with each other on the boards, but you just take it a little too far.. I dont know you personally, but I am sure I would like you in person. I just cant believe that someone could be this argumentative in real life?
     
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  18. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Which "stats"?

    Are you stoned .... ?


    Condi
     
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  19. VikingSamurai

    VikingSamurai Banned

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    Its not the fact that you are 35 that bothers me.. Its the fact that at your age, you are acting like someone a 3rd your age..:sad:

    And that you are so angry!....
     
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  20. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    What makes you think I'm angry?
    Actually I'm handing out sarcastic remarks rather lightheartedly.
    It is a real fun to annoy people with statistical data and facts!!

    Look, the original poster is a well-known Seles fanatic in the internet.
    She loves to post her usualy "greatest player by decade" post again and again. It's only use is to exclude and diss Graf ("80ies: Navratilova - 90ies. Seles (until she was stabbed)").

    Bringing up that really important is which player is seen as the CENTURY's greatest - and underlining that with the well-publicized 1999 International Olympic Committee awards simply makes my day.


    Same with the idea that Seles "most probably" or "most certainly" would have won a 4th consecutive AO and (and!!) FO title without the stabbing. To remind those ********s that only in 3 of 14 occasions a player (women, post-WW2) has made the 4th title in a row - at least! - puts this claim into perspective, don't you think? Most people never would have guessed that fact.

    Same with the fact that #1 Seles lost 5 of 7 matches against Graf. Most people simply have forgotten that.

    And same with the fact that Seles's winning percentage in her best year ever (1992) was WORSE than Graf's winning percentage over a 11-year time span (1986-96). Almost no one knows that.


    Those are 3 simply DEVASTATING stats for Seles whackos. The answer almost always are ad-hominem attacks towards me.
    So what ....

    :D :D :D

    Condi
     
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  21. FedSampras

    FedSampras Semi-Pro

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    Luckily for Graff and Parche, they benefited from an absence of competition with there being no other real contender besides Seles, otherwise Parche would have needed to stab multiple people to inflate his girl's record.
     
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  22. FedSampras

    FedSampras Semi-Pro

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    I admire the tenacity of Condi who maintain otherwise in the teeth of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I wish i had fans that were that fanatical and blind.

    Graff will always be known as ugly pathetic big nosed loser who because of a brutal criminal act by another german gave her the wins she could not get without the KNIFE.

    Are you paid to act retarded....?
     
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  23. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Zero wimbledon titles.
     
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  24. Amone

    Amone Hall of Fame

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    I'm not sure where you derived your ideas on this one... Considering that Australians were originally British, and for quite some time Americans and British were deathly enemies. That one kinda confused me. Granted that nowadays they're bosom friends.

    However, considering, I enjoy your argumentative spirit (when I keep my head on my shoulders) and actually quite enjoy similar arguments-for-their-own-sake myself.
     
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  25. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

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    Court has the all-time record for most Slams - no stabbings.
    Wills Moody has the record for most years ranked #1 -- no stabbings.
    Navratilova has the all-time record for most singles titles - no stabbings.
    Mallory has the all-time record for most U.S. titles - no stabbings.
    Evert has the all-time record for most French Opens - no stabbings.
    Court has the all-time record for most Australian titles - no stabbings.
    Wills Moody has the record for most from the Big Two - no stabbings.
    Navratilova has the all-time record for most Wimbledons - no stabbings.

    These are the major records in women's tennis that date back decades and decades to 1925 and earlier.

    No stabbings of the top players by any of these 5 players or their fans.

    Graf has a couple of records, but they are tied to much more recent developments in the 1970s -- things like most weeks ranked #1 since the WTA began in the early 1970s and most hardcourt Slams.

    Pretty sad to not be the best at anything dating back to before the Open Era in tennis began in 1968 -- especially since Graf and her career will always have the stabbing incident.

    That is one reason Steffi Graf should never be considered the best of all-time --- she would not have even been the best of any specific decade without the Seles stabbing --- but even moreso because her career will always be tarnished by the stabbing of the undiputed top player in women's tennis in 1993, Monica Seles.
     
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  26. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    ATP, you could write from here to eternity and Seles will NEVER have a Wimbledon title.
     
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  27. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    ;-)


    Condi
     
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  28. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Tell that to all the tennis experts and fans out there - most consider here to be the best and greatest of all time.
    May be different among American and Australian lesbians ...

    Condi
     
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  29. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    And she will NEVER

    - have a positive H2H against Graf

    - have a higher winning percentage in her best year than Graf had in a 11-year period (1986-96)

    - have at least one tenth of the fans Graf still has

    - never marry a nice and rich guy like Andre Agassi.


    Condi
     
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  30. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

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    Don't forget that there are 3 components to greatness in tennis --- DOMINANCE ... CONSISTENCY ... LONGEVITY.

    Some players have all 3 ... some have 2 of the 3 ... and some have to rely on a fan stabbing another player to even have 2 of the 3.
     
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  31. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

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    And she will NEVER

    -have a Gunther Parche

    Chris was the greatest on slow surfaces ..

    Martina was greatest on fast surfaces ..

    but Steffi was great on ALL surfaces as long as Monica Seles was stabbed in the back with a knife by a Graf fan.
     
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  32. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Graf has FIVE years with at least 3 slams and Wimbledon among them:
    1988, 1989, 1993, 1995, 1996.
    Dominance.

    Graf had a 93.6 winning percentage over a 11-year span (1986-97).
    Consistency.

    Graf won FO in 1987 AND twelve years later in 1999 against the then #1 player (Navratilova, Hingis).
    Longevity.

    She is the most respected female tennis player in the world for a reason.

    Condi
     
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  33. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

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    You missed MY point ... Graf has no all-time record for most singles or doubles titles at ANY of the 5 biggest events -- even with her help from Gunther Parche.

    Graf has a 30 year record (most weeks #1) ... Graf has a 25 year record (most U.S. Opens on hardcourts) ... Graf has another 25 year record (most Grand Slam singles titles on hardcourts).

    That is as close as she gets, and she can thank Gunther Parche for those.
     
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  34. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Each slam won at least 4 times.
    Each of the 3 most prestigious slams (FO, Wimbledon, USO) won at least 5 times.
    The Golden Grand Slam.
    No one can touch that.

    BTW, which is the 5th "big event"? The "Avon Tour Championships"?

    Condi
     
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  35. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

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    Nope ... Steffi/Gunther did not do this SINCE 1993.
     
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  36. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    So, enough for today.

    I'm going to watch a DVD from the "Golden Graf Wimbledon Victories Box (7 DVDs)" now and drink some Cabernet Sauvignon.

    Bye ....

    Condi
     
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  37. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

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    Other than Martina Navratilova past her prime and teen Monica Seles before her prime, tell me about the great grass court competition Steffi Graf had to face in her career at Wimbledon. What a joke.

    Incidentally, it was Zina Garrison who beat Steffi Graf in the Wimbledon semis in 1990 before Navratilova beat Garrison in the final round.

    Steffi Graf never reached Wimbledon finals in more than 3 years in a row.

    Martina Navratilova won an all-time record 6 Wimbledons in a row and made the final round of Wimbledon a record 9 years in a row.

    Steffi Graf never had more than 7 years consecutively when she got to the quarters or better. In fact, Graf only got past the 4th round of Wimbledon 10times in her entire career.

    Martina Navratilova reached the quarters or better in 20 consecutive years at Wimbledon.

    Bolster your credibility, son .... get out of your denial.
     
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  38. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Wimbledon winning percentages (open era):

    1. Graf 91.4 % (74-7)
    2. Navratilova 89.6 % (120-14)
    3. Sharapova 87.0 % (20-3)
    4. S. Williams 86.8 % (33-5)
    5. Evert 86.5 % (96-15)
    6. V. Williams 86.3 % (44-7)
    7. Goolagong 86.0 % (49-8 )

    Condi
     
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  39. VikingSamurai

    VikingSamurai Banned

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    Seriously. I think I am falling in love with Condi!.. You gotta love a woman with spirit!..
     
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  40. FiveO

    FiveO Hall of Fame

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    Graf played "only" 14 Wimbledons over 16 years.
    Court played only 12 times in 15 years.
    Evert played Wimbledon 18 years straight.
    BJK played played Wimbledon 21 times over 23 years.

    Navratilova played 23 Wimbledons over 31 years.

    The numbers at Wimbledon spread over a minimum of 14 years played in succession:

    1) Navratilova best 14 yrs....1977-1990 94.7 % (89-5)
    2) Navratilova last 14 yrs.....1982-2004 92.1 % (82-7)
    3) Navratilova first 14 yrs.....1973-1986 92.0 % (81-7)
    4) Graf's only 14 yrs............1984-1999 91.4 % (74-7)
    5) BJK best 14 yrs...............1962-1975 91.2 % (83-8 )
    6) BJK first 14 yrs................1961-1974 89.5 % (77-9)
    7) BJK last 14 yrs................1968-1983 88.2 % (75-10)
    8 ) Evert's first/best 14 yrs....1972-1985 88 % (81-11)
    9) Court's 12 yrs. over 15....1961-1975 87.3 % (62-9)
    10) Evert's last 14 years........1976-1989 86.5 % (77-12)
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2007
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  41. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    If Graf had played some more Wimbledons (1997, 2000-2006) she would have more than just 7 singles titles.
    You can't have it both ways ...

    Condi
     
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  42. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    But she didn't....you can't have it both ways.
     
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  43. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    FiveO tried to water down Graf's superior winning percentage at Wimbledon by suggesting that Navratilova only was worse because she played so many Wimbledons as a still-not-matured and as a old player.

    Condi
     
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  44. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    Rosewall, too.
    How is he the player of the 60's? Laver won THE Grand Slam in 62 AND 69. I just do not see how anyone can top that one.

    Someone mentioned Laver and Connors. Connors' curse (in terms of this thread) was that he kicked some ass in the 70s and and in the early 80's. Edge to Borg (70s) and Lendl (80s) there. Even Mac.
     
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  45. FiveO

    FiveO Hall of Fame

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    I'm sorry, but no. You're extending Graf's best 14 and comparing it to Navratilova's 31.

    Unfortunately, you're engaging in wishful thinking.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2007
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  46. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    No, I don't.
    I like the reality.

    Graf has 22 slams, Navratilova 18.
    Graf has 8 years as year-end's #1, Navratilova 7.
    Graf has 377 weeks as #1, Navratilova 331.
    Graf has the Golden Grand Sam plus a non-calendar-year grand slam, Navratilova has a non-calendar-year grand-slam.

    And I let Navratilova have a mixed doubles slam at age 47 ...


    Condi
     
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  47. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    Okay, folks. I tried. I tried to get it off the Graf/Seles thing.
    I should have chosen something more engaging, I suppose.

    Hey, Federer is a eunuch. You guys knew that right?
     
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  48. FedSampras

    FedSampras Semi-Pro

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    More Fabricated stats eh?

    Navratilova won her first W in 1978, her last in 1990, and made her last final in 1994, she made 12 finals (Graf made 9) and she made something like , what 9 STRAIGHT finals.... had something like 5 semifinals , and 3 quarters..., in fact I don't think MN lost earlier than the qtrs from 1975-1994, something like 20 years....she had more grasscourt titles by far,including Eastbourne,,,,and she never suffered the ignominy of losing early round matches to people like Lori McNeil and Natash Zyreva.... like Graff did.......even when Martina was approaching 38 or 39.....

    there is absolutely no comparison, Martina N. comes up ahead of Graff, those picking Graff first would have to smoking the grass of Wimbledon :) ...
     
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  49. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

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    LOL ... Graf's dominance over Navratilova on grass?

    Seems that Navratilova was the only player to reach the final round of Wimbledon in the years 1985-1990.

    Seems that Navratilova won Wimbledon in 1987 and 1990 and beat the player who had beaten Graf in the semis to win the 1990 singles title.

    Seems that Navratilova was the only player in the Open Era to win Wimbledon 6 consecutive years (Graf never even was able to reach more than 3 consecutive finals at Wimbledon).

    Seems that Navratilova was the only player in the Open Era to reach 9 consecutive Wimbledon finals (again, Graf managed to get to Wimbledon finals in 3 consecutive years).

    Seems that Navratilova was the only player in the Open Era to reach the quarters or better at Wimbledon in a record 20 consecutive years (twice as many years as Graf).

    There should be no question to any intelligent observer that Martina Navratilova is the best women's grass court player of the last 70 years.

    There is nothing I can do for those that are less intelligent.
     
    #49
  50. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
    Messages:
    878
    I thought it mught be fun to see the differences between Graf and Navratilova in their 30s ... so here goes --- wait a minute ... Steffi did not even play in her 30s?

    Navratilova had a winning rcord vs. Graf when Navratilova was in her mid to upper 30s between the years 1990-1993?

    And in their ONLY match during the 1990s at a Grand Slam event, did the 30-something Navratilova actually beat Graf in that match?

    And Graf did not even PLAY whatsoever in her 30s?

    So how could Graf POSSIBLY be considered better?

    And didn't a Graf fan stab the #1 ranked player in women's tennis, a teenager named Seles, in the back with a knife when the teenage Seles was #1 in women's tennis in the middle of Graf's career - even though Seles was only a teen?

    With ALL this in mind, who in their right mind would say that Steffi Graf was the best player in women's tennis history?

    Seriously.
     
    #50

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