Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by The Dark Knight, Sep 26, 2012.
What do you think? Poll is on its way
Marcelo Rios rates mentioning as well. Perhaps, peak Hewitt (though in terms of blocking back serves.)
Until last year, I think Andy Murray was viewed as a slightly better returner than Djokovic.
Djokovic is a very overrated returner.
I'd say it's Hewitt.
I'd say Murray has been for a while a better returner than Djokovic, still I went for Agassi.
Novak and Andy are master returners for sure but I find them to be rather passive compared to Agassi. They can get to more balls than Andre but they aren't doing as much with them.
Andre would give up some aces because he was willing to guess on serves, but he was so offensive when he got a racket on the ball, it was a full blown weapon as opposed to a way to get the point to neutral
Andre is the man! It is quite amusing how people thought Novak or Andy has that great of a return of serve. Obviously, people only accounted for their most recent exploits which couldn't be that many years back...
Hewitt pretty much ruined Serve & Volley, he should at least be included on the list.
Agassi, then Murray for me.
Andre has the most legendary ROS (up there with Connors) but I'd day Lleyton's is BETTER. as in, more useful.
Agassi all the way for me, then perhaps djokovic
Peak Hewitt. Made Pete look like Pablo Andujar.
I just watched Agassi take a 140 mph serve from Roddick for a clean, down the line return winner. I doubt anybody on the tour can reproduce that return of serve.
Federer pwned him that one time.
Djokovic could fluke one as well. :twisted: Also, James Blake did that as well IIRC.
In the current era, i'd go for either Djokovic.
However, best of all time? Agassi all the way. Agassi had much better hands and quicker reflexes than anyone on the return, even compared to Djokovic. When you take into account the fact that Agassi was playing grand slam back when the US Open/Wimbledon surfaces were a lot faster than now, you definitely had to have great skills to pull off the kind of returns he came with. Don't get me wrong, Djokovic is in my opinion the better returner of the top 4 right now, but the slower surface definitely help neutralizing a fast serve.
It's funny because I was recently watching some older matches of the 90's, like the 92 Wimbledon final between Agassi and Ivanesevic. The surface was so much faster than what it is now, and I was really blown away by the quality of Agassi's return. Not only were the surfaces back then faster, but he faced a lot of big servers back in the day which makes his return that much more impressive in my eyes.
This topic again?
if you look at statistics for this year Rafa leads in 3 categories and has played 23 less matches than Joker.
He is high on break point conversion as well.
had he still been playing these past few months his numbers would be way higher than the competition.
I see you have Joker in the poll...yet he's not even beating rafa in return of serve stats having played more than him.
"Agassi...said Novak Djokovic's elastic ability to both attack and defend off the return makes the second-ranked Serbian the best returner tennis has seen. When Lleyton Hewitt came along I remember thinking, 'How does Hewitt's return game compare?' Because Hewitt has so much lateral coverage and he puts so many balls back in play," Agassi said. "The same with Federer—he gets so many balls back in play. Well, if you can take the best of me, the best of Hewitt, and the best of Federer and then you stick it in one guy, that's Djokovic. Because the truth is Djokovic can stay right up on the baseline and hurt you with the return if he chooses to, or he can stand back and defend if he needs to. "See, Hewitt really didn't have the ability to hurt you off the first serve. He could hurt you occasionally off the second serve. I had the ability to always hurt you, but I got aced a lot because I took educated chances. Djokovic has the ability to do both and his pocket is bigger than mine and the ball above his shoulder—he handles that better than I did.""
"McEnroe, speaking to a tennis academy in New York this week, declared Djokovic the best returner of serve the game had seen -- better than Agassi..." http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...a-of-mens-tennis/story-fnbe6xeb-1226262260411
And this is exactly why he is by far the most overrated returner in history, even eclipsing Agassi himself.
Also, it's called "appeal to authority fallacy". Google it.
McEnroe is what we call a "prisoner of the moment". The moron actually claimed that Nadal is a better netplayer than Federer. :lol:
And Agassi deepthroats modern tennis harder than a hooker from his home city.
Murray is clearly, I mean CLEARLY better than Djokovic. It's not even a debate. The past couple of years, Murray has always had the better return stats even with his terrible forehand and his passive tennis. Djokovic is hyped up cuz he regularly wins slams as opposed to Murray, who only won his slam recently.
Playing more often doesn't improve your ret- HAHAHAHAHA why am I even arguing with you. :lol:
Anyone who has watched them both hit a return of 2nd serve should blatantly realize how much superior Djokovic is in terms of returning.
People bringing up return or serving stats and taking them at face value is basically the litmus test oof intelligence. It's like the Americans would make people say "lollapalooza" on radio during WW2 and shoot them if they said "roraparooza" since they were Japanese. :lol:
You do realize that those are percentages, and it is less impressive to hold a high % over less matches than it is over more matches right?
ie. Federer held serve 70% of the time in 1 match vs. Federer held serve 70% of the time over 5 matches. Which is more impressive?
Also, based on past history Nadal has performed much better in the first half of the year, up until after Wimbledon, than in the latter half. So that probably translates into return game %'s as well.
I agree with you, I don't really give much credibility to McEnroe's opinion, depending on who's hot at the moment he always changes his mind. I don't think Murray is better than Djokovic on the return, if all I'd say they're about even lately.
Murray is more consistent and a better defensive returner, which is more significant IMO. Djokovic's looks better, the way he kills Nadal. But Murray is a servebots nightmare. :lol:
I'd say federer cause he's the goat of everything in tennis
But here's my ranking:
Also, surfaces are slower and the ball bounces higher making the return easier than before for the current era
And racquet/string tech improved a lot so....
Seriously, Hewitt was a beast back then.
I mean sure, Federer wasn't what he would become, but his Hewitt's defense here is Murraylike/Djokoviclike. Crafty b*stard.
Something to think about. Even though Agassi faced stronger servers, return winners are easier to do against serve and volleyers.
I think nole and Agassi maybe even ferrer to an extent
If you made that thread last year Djokovic would be leading that poll by a HUGE margin.
Funny to see how fast people jump off the bandwagon. :lol:
This. Everyone else is just a pretender.
Agassi had to reurn against Pete do that's a point to be taken but djokovic had to handle federes spots and rafa ad side slider so it's debatable
Pete's serve is massively overrated. I can name you 5 guys with a better serve.
I didn't say he was the best server but he had the ground game to accompany it unlike the karlovics and the isners and the raonics
Ahh..OK..glad you agree. i agree with you too on the ground game of the super lanky guys.
And remember.....a second serve is probably more important than the first serve.....who has a better second serve than Pete?
Second serve and first serve are both parts of the serve. Anyone's serve includes both the first and second serve. The distinction is unnecessary and an attempt by nostalgic losers to take attention away from the fact that Pete never did and never has had the best serve in history.
Next week McEnroe will say something else. Depends which way the wind will blow. If Murray continues to win slams, McEnroe will say Murray has the best ROS. McEnroe is wrong here. In terms of consistency and longevity in a career Agassi has the best ROS. Let's see where Djokovic ends up on his ROS stats at the end of his career.
He most certainly does have one of the best serves if not the best in history. Even the biggest Federer fan on earth has to admit that. Let's not get crazy.
You're joking right?
1. Andre Agassi
2. Jimmy Connors
3. Rod Laver
4. Roger Federer
5. Bjorn Borg
6. Novak Djokovic
7. Don Budge
8. Ken Rosewall
9. Ivan Lendl
10. Lew Hoad
Honorable mention: Andy Murray, Llayton Hewitt, John McEnroe (yes you read it right, even if he is full of crap most of the time), Guillermo Vilas
PS: Agassi hitting clean winners against the serves of Sampras coming in, and Roddick and Federer staying back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdDzhENhMXs&feature=g-vrec
I was just testing the waters about how serious people would be
answer to the thread in all honesty is Andre Agassi
I can't speak for all-time, but as far as today's game is concerned, Murray and Djokovic are pretty much tied for the top spot.
Not sure how Fed's name is even mentioned; he just chips/floats it back most of the time.
Fed's return is great, but better than Murray, Borg, Agassi Djokovic, Hewitt? Why so high?
I put Agassi at the top, not below Fed. In any event, I'm judging Fed at his peak 2004-2007. After he got mono in 2008 his entire game slipped a bit, but, not as much as you would expect compared to what happened to Roddick and Soderling. Now that he's been presumably healthy for some time, age has slowed his reflexes to the point that he's not quite the returner he was.
PS: FYI, all of my rankings are debatable and subject to change upon convincing argument, except Agassi.
Except for when he stepped around and hit clean winners to every concievable spot on the court.
Check out Federer's percentage of games won as a returner in his best years on the ATP website.
It's really not nearly as good as Agassi's and a number of others.
Djokovic is up there. Check out how easily he handles Nadal's heavy topspin lefty serve on grass. He handles it far far better than the likes of Federer and Murray.
PC1, I see Fed's year-to-date return stats, and past stats. But, I don't see a comparison of all player return stats other than for year-to-date.
I see I'm not the only one here who thinks Murray is a better (or at least equally good) returner than Djokovic.
IMO Agassi is the best aggressive serve returner ever. Federer is the best ever at neutralizing the server's advantage by getting the return low/deep.
Yeah...because being able to handle Rafa's serve makes him the greatest returner of all time. What an idiot!
LOL I have to admit that was hilarious.
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