Grr My tennis coach won't let me play with a Wilson T3000

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by Viper, Apr 12, 2007.

  1. Viper

    Viper Professional

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    Okay, so one of my friends found a T3000 at a garage sale, and being the vintage racket junkie that I am, I had to try it out. So I bring it to school and once tennis practice comes around I start to hit with it. It has great feel am I litterally blasting back backhands where ever I want. So once the coach comes and sees me playing with the racket he gets mad at me and makes me do five laps for playing with a "badminton" racket.

    I really like that racket too :(
     
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  2. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    I think Satan has Tennis in hell ... and the only rackets you can use are T-2000s, T-3000s, PDP FiberStaffs and ... Princes.

    IMO, you're experiencing a "honeymoon" event with that frame. Put it on the wall; don't try to play with it.

    - KK
     
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  3. Deuce

    Deuce Banned

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    Play with it as often as you like.

    A coach's job is to get results. If you're hitting well with the T3000, and keeping up with the others, the coach has no right to demand that you not play with it.

    He's probably just afraid of what people would think of HIM if one of his kids is hitting with a racquet like that.

    First, tell him to grow up.
    Then tell him to learn about what tennis used to be. If you like old racquets, tell him about some. There is no rule that says that the teacher can't learn from the student.
     
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  4. El Diablo

    El Diablo Hall of Fame

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    Do as Deuce says, as long as you're prepared to sit on the bench. My wife once worked for a company that prohibited employees from reading a newspaper during lunch because they were concerned how it would look if an investor passed by in the hallway. The world can be silly and arbitrary at times, and you can resist those in authority if you wish, but be prepared to experience the consequences.
     
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  5. Tennisgrl

    Tennisgrl Guest

    I agree with Deuce. Play with what makes you feel comfortable. If he's gonna be that fascist about it, maybe you need a new coach.
     
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  6. Geezer Guy

    Geezer Guy Hall of Fame

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    I'm kinda with your coach on this. If you can play well with a GST-3000 (Garage Sale T-3000), you can play GREAT with a modern racquet. He's not doing you any favors letting you limit yourself.
     
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  7. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    thats interesting. weird company!
     
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  8. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    Viper - I am a HS Tennis Coach. Don't be a fool and challenge your Coach -- like some here are advocating. That's nonsense ... if you want to actually *play* for the team.

    ... Unless you decide this is a "hill you're ready to die on." (Is it?) Are you willing to make such a big "case" of choosing to play with [a ridiculous] frame?)

    - KK
     
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  9. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    ^off topic but i just wanted to say lately when i go to practice at the local courts there is either a high school practice taking place or a match against two high schools, and each time the coaches have been very nice with me being on court and even hitting with his players. so i just wanted to say as generalizing that i like high school coaches :)
     
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  10. SFrazeur

    SFrazeur Legend

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    In my professional opinion, I have taught for over five years, I am uspta, and I have taught from 4 year olds to 50+ year olds: You are making a mistake, and getting some very bad advice from some users here.

    If I was teaching a high school student, and he/she wanted to play with a T-'000 series racquet I would let them have their fun for a few minutes, but then they would switch back to using reasonable racquet. It is not viable to use that kind of racquet at that level. I would not let them use a PS 85 for that matter. If they did not like that they would need to get another instructor. This is some brutal truth I am about to tell you.

    You are not good enough to use that racquet against equal level peers, I guarantee it. You will get beat by similar level players that think they are, but are in fact not good enough to use a N/K 6.1 90. You will have bad loses against lesser players with Pure Drives. If your coach is stupid and weak enough to let you use that racquet in competition you are going to windup embarrassed. Am I being mean? If the truth hurts, I cannot help it. If the medicine is bitter then so be it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2007
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  11. bismark

    bismark Rookie

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    Best advice in this thread. Don't lose your place in the team because of a novelty. Your coach has a very GOOD reason for not letting you use that racquet - not those stated by some posters here. Hey, message board people don't bear the consequences, YOU DO!
     
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  12. The Gorilla

    The Gorilla Banned

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    why on earth wouldn't you allow someone to use a PS85?
     
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  13. SFrazeur

    SFrazeur Legend

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    I was in reference to high school players, a PS 85 would put them at just too much of a disadvantage.
     
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  14. Voltron

    Voltron Hall of Fame

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    Pffft, like I'd know
    I'm a high school player, and I use a Midsize racquet, is there something wrong with that? (technically I didn't bother with the team, instead I'm training)
     
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  15. SFrazeur

    SFrazeur Legend

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    There are big differences between a PS 85 and an RDS 001 MID.
     
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  16. SFrazeur

    SFrazeur Legend

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    Everyone, do keep in mind that we are talking about a high school team here. If he wants to use a racquet that puts himself at a grave disadvantage that is one thing, but when you are on a team you have to think of others.
     
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  17. The Gorilla

    The Gorilla Banned

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    surely if they play better with a certain racquet there's no problem though?
     
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  18. SFrazeur

    SFrazeur Legend

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    I guarantee he is not playing better with that T-3000 than he does/would with a reasonable racquet. Under limited and to some degree idle circumstances he may indeed be able to blast shots, but hitting "better" and playing better are different matters entirely.
     
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  19. The Gorilla

    The Gorilla Banned

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    no, I'm talking about a prostaff, if a student of yours played better with a prostaff 85 would you demand they switch?
     
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  20. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    Hmm my coach encourages my PS 85 use.
     
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  21. Voltron

    Voltron Hall of Fame

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    True, but where do you draw the line in how demanding a racquet should be?
    I wouldn't quite call my Mids a grave disadvantage.:???:
     
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  22. SFrazeur

    SFrazeur Legend

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    Your not talking about the PS 85 but then you are?

    Played better with over what though? Over a beat up Target aluminum racquet, then I would have to say yes. Your question assumes that a PS 85 has to be a choice. That is just not the case. There are more than two choices, with a PS 85 being one.

    Are we talking about a high school player, or a guy that likes to hit with the guys. You've got to look at what circumstances the player is under.

    I am not going to state he is wrong, but I'm not wrong either.

    I never stated they are. Big differences between a T-3000 and an RDS 001 MID, big.
     
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  23. Deuce

    Deuce Banned

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    The advice from the self-described coaches seems rather biased in favor of the coach (surprise, surprise).

    Next thing they'll be saying is that the coach should be able to tell you what color shorts to wear...

    How can any intelligent, objective person NOT be in favor of allowing the kid to play with the T-3000?? If the results are good, he stays with it. If the results are not good, he tries something else.
    How is this ridiculous or unfair in any way?

    As I stated earlier - the coach's job is to get results. So why not allow the kid to use the racquet and see what results it yields, rather than condemn it before you know if he can make it work or not? Is there a problem to giving it a chance? Just because it's different or unusual does not make it inherently wrong or "ridiculous".

    Further, one can even argue that at the high school level, results should not be the 'be all and end all'. Incorporating some FUN into the experience should be encouraged. And maybe even teaching the kids about some of the history of the game. These latter two elements can be achieved by using an old racquet such as this.

    Those who are so quick to condemn this racquet choice are doing the kid a disservice.
     
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  24. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    Sssshhhh! Don't give away our "Vast Coaching Conspiracy."

    I'm convinced, Deuce. (Not!)

    Your attempt at creating a false dichotomy is pretty pathetic. (To *not* allow a kid to play with a demonstrably inferior frame is -- by your thinking -- "unintelligent". Nonsense!)

    We don't allow idiotic choices for many reasons. (Anyone actively involved in Jr High and High School Education -- even those on the periphery -- know teenagers' brains haven't fully developed yet.)

    The prefrontal cortex, home of the so-called executive functions -- setting priorities, organizing thoughts, suppressing impulses, weighing the consequences of one's actions. In other words, the final part of the brain to grow up is the part capable of deciding whether "x" is a good thing to do or not. Our jobs as parents, teachers and coaches is to help teens (with under-developed Stupid Filters") make better/safer/wiser decisions.

    #1 ... I don't make very many "hard and fast" rules with my boys when the topic isn't an "essential". I make suggestions. I encourage the boys to think things through....

    #2 ... (For me) frame choice isn't an essential. But I'd make it pretty clear -- through joshing or teasing -- that a kid wanting to play with a T-X000 was making a pretty dumb decision. Two years ago, one of my JV boys was playing with a "Red Head" (The Head Pro. 65 sqaure inches. A great frame ... in its day.) I encouraged him to try out some more modern frames. A week later he was playing with a frame which, IMO, wouldn't hamper his development as much as the Red Head.

    #3 ... I also ask my Tennis Parents to buy Tennis Shoes or Court Shoes for the boys. Cross Trainers have contributed to too many twisted / sprained ankles. (If mom and dad ignore me ... okay. I tried....)

    My boys have plenty of fun, thanks. Mostly their fun comes from improved results ... as a consequence of following my advice. If a kid wants to fool around with a T-X000, I'd encourage that (on his own time). If his under-developed Stupid Filter has him on my practice courts with it ... that's his choice. (But I'll not take him seriously.)

    (I suspect you're just being a contrarian.) Some "history" is fine. But a boy who insists on using a T-X000 for regular play these days? His Coach would determine he isn't really very serious about the game. His Coach would spend more time and energy working with the boys who demonstrated they wanted to improve. The "T-X000" boy would only be hurting himself.

    Those who are encouraging the kid to be foolish are not helping him one bit.

    - KK
     
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  25. armand

    armand Banned

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    [​IMG]
     
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  26. Craig Sheppard

    Craig Sheppard Hall of Fame

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    Coaches fly off the handle way too many times. This coach is ridiculous. If I saw a player hitting with something stupid like a T-3000, it'd be just as easy to say:

    "JIMMY! Get over here! Why are you hitting with that racquet?"

    "Yo coach, my buddy just got it at a yard sale and I wanted to see what it was like to hit with an old racquet."

    "Oh. That thing can mess up your game. I don't mind with you hitting with it for a little while, but I don't want to see you playing more than 5 or 10 minutes with it, OK?"

    "But...I'm hitting really well! My backhands are smokin!"

    "Look, I know people hit great with some racquets when they pick them up. I'm telling you, it's not good for your game in the long run. Just have fun with it for a few minutes then get back to work. Are we clear?"

    ---

    Why couldn't it go down like that? Why are all coaches "What the heck are you doing! You're running.... Give me 5 laps now." The first rule of any sport is to have fun doing it. Tennis Team practice isn't for goofing off though, it's for practice. However, nobody's going to win the State Championships in 10 minutes of practice. This way you've let the kid have his bit of fun, he probably learned that old racquets can be crappy, and you've still held your authority about giving him a time limit.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2007
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  27. jamumafa

    jamumafa Semi-Pro

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    I think he should do what my coach does.

    He said I could play with some beasty old Head frame I found 'cos I liked the cosmetics (Racket head was TINY).

    He said that I could play with the hunk-a-junk, as long as I kept winning mini-games in practice. I went through about 2 sessions hardly losing any games. I felt great. Then from then on I didnt win a single mini-game. I changed back to my M-fil and all was right again. The honeymoon period of "AAAAAHA I'm right" was great, But I swithced back, because I knew it'd help me.
     
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  28. Voltron

    Voltron Hall of Fame

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    I do agree with that. Plus, the RDS is sexier than the T-3000, and isn't that what really counts? ;)
     
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  29. kingdaddy41788

    kingdaddy41788 Hall of Fame

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    WRONG. Modern racquets are well... pathetic in comparison to old graphite sticks (if you're good). Hit with a Flexpoint Prestige and then tell me it feels as good as a Prestige Classic. If you do, you're lying.

    Coaches like YOU are a huge part of the problem with high school tennis. My high school coach was such a jerk who couldn't handle a little constructive criticism, that the top two guys at our school wouldn't play for him. Good players don't waste their time playing high school tennis because they won't get noticed there anyway. Players play with racquets that suit them, not racquets that suit you. Grow a pair.

    If someone wants to get better, I might recommend to them that they steer away from the T-2000, but if it's what they really like then they should play with it. However, a PS85 (one of the best racquets in history) would come in the top 5 on my list of true, great players' racquets. If you're teaching Grannies (and I bet you are), then steering them away from the PS85 is probably a good idea. But if you're coaching juniors, then maybe you should stop. The two greatest players of all time (Sampras and Federer) both played with the PS85, so clearly it's a high-quality stick.

    No, it wouldn't. That's a stupid statement. Outright stupid.

    It doesn't put him at a disadvantage if that's what he plays better with. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's a bad racquet. What's wrong with people today?

    He just might be. Just because you can't hit with a classic racquet doesn't mean he can't.


    Come on people, am I the only one who sees this as some of the most disgusting coaching advice ever?
     
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  30. The Gorilla

    The Gorilla Banned

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    If you look back over my posts you will see that I was only ever talking about the PS85, you are just being disingenous.
     
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  31. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    Thank you for the "real life" example of a undeveloped prefrontal cortex....


    Viper - What have you decided to do?

    - KK
     
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  32. ibringtheHEAT

    ibringtheHEAT Semi-Pro

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    I am a high-school player, and my 'prefrontal cortex' is somewhat developed(I hope ;)).

    I don't bother making my coach mad if I can help it. I know that he knows more about tennis than I do, and the only way I can get better is if I listen to him. This goes more-so towards my USTA coach whom is more experienced, but I don't challenge my coaches a lot.

    We, high-school players, need to realize that for the most part coaches know more about tennis than we do.(notice, for the most part)

    Just my $.02
     
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  33. SFrazeur

    SFrazeur Legend

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    That is a logical fallacy, begging the question. Invalid argument.

    You are entitled to your opinion, the same as I am entitled to my own professional opinion. Please respect that.

    Against equal level players with modern racquets he is at a disadvantage.
    When did I state the the racquet it's self was a bad racquet. Never did. Inappropriate, unreasonable yes.

    No I'm just being confused by your statements.
     
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  34. Tikiman53

    Tikiman53 Semi-Pro

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    I think the OP should just switch to another racquet. It's better than risking the evil eye from the coach--way better. Who says he can't play even better with another racquet? And either way, I'm sure he'll find something that can substitute it well as there are tons of racquets out there. Unless you're using something from Kmart, I don't think a racquet can make or break you. I'm not saying I agree with your coach or disagree with him, but I think you should just go with what he says because he's the one who decides who gets to play Singles 1.
     
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  35. Tour 90

    Tour 90 Semi-Pro

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    I play in hs with a tour 90, I don't think it limits me at all. When I hit with 100 sq in racquets my style of play sends everything out. But c'mon, a t3000 is not a real 'racquet' by today's standards. Its a novelty item for gods sake
     
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  36. BounceHitBounceHit

    BounceHitBounceHit Legend

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    Amen. Words of Wisdom (caps intentional). :) CC
     
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  37. complwyr

    complwyr New User

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    Listen to your coach.

    I owned a T3000 when I was in high school and it was a piece of tennis crap even then (1975). Best thing I did then was stick it in the closet and buy a Jack Kramer Autograph. (That is the racquet Pete Sampras learned with as a youngster.) Using that old T3000 will not help your strokes or your game and may even hurt your strokes and timing.

    Have your fun with it for a short period of time, then retire it to your closet and play with your much better modern racquet. You will not regret it. In fact, try that T3000 a year from now and you'll realize why it belongs in the closet.
     
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  38. nViATi

    nViATi Hall of Fame

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    Tennis is about winning.
     
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  39. gsquicksilver

    gsquicksilver Semi-Pro

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    i hate coaches who try to control the lives and decisions of their players.:mad:
     
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  40. ClimbK2

    ClimbK2 New User

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    Just play with the T3000 outside of practice.

    Do you follow the drills your coach asks you to do in practice?
     
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  41. [K]aotic

    [K]aotic Semi-Pro

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    is it ok for me to use a k90 in high school? i'm an 8th grader and going to high school next year and i was thinking if it would be bad for me to use the k90. i have a babolat pure drive but i don't like the feel of it and id ont' even use it. so the k90 is the only racquet i have. i have no desire to go out and buy another racquet. besides the k90 feels great.


    btw there is a difference between playing good with a racquet and bringing out the racquet's potential.
     
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  42. Deuce

    Deuce Banned

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    This seems to be a perfectly logical and fair approach. Far more logical than totally condemning something without even allowing it to be tried.

    KK claims to be an 'educator' - and this is how he educates! - by totally condemning something, no questions asked.
    Is there any wonder why the education system has so many holes?

    Of course, the above-mentioned scenario by 'jamumafa' is the scenario that provides the TRUE education - to the kid if he can't win with the old racquet, and to the coach if the kid CAN win with the racquet. Either way, the lesson learned would be ten times more memorable and valuable than the "just because I say so" approach.
    Proof is a wonderful educator.
    So why in the world would ANY coach not take the above-mentioned approach? 'Coaches' like the one in the opening post and KK refuse to take this sensible course because they're afraid of looking bad if the kid actually wins with the old frame.
    By condemning it and not allowing it to be tried, they can't look foolish. It's all about saving their 'reputation'.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2007
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  43. pow

    pow Hall of Fame

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    That's just stubborn, I don't understand what exactly is the appropriate racquet to play with. I had a bunch of friends who had "player's sticks" and I beat them just fine with an oversized 10 oz racquet.
     
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  44. thefan

    thefan Professional

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    Hey SFrazeur, I'm interested in hearing your reasoning behind this. Why would a PS85 put a high school player at a disadvantage?

    I'm in HS but not part of any team (my school doesnt have a team). I would consider myself a beginner with good strokes, but need to improve on footwork and consistency. I play/ practice with my PS85 most of the time. Will continuing to play with this racquet hurt my game?
     
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  45. Redflea

    Redflea Hall of Fame

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    Funny...my son had a similar reaction to hitting w/one of my T2000s...I have two, and we took them out to hit together. He loved it...after about 15 minutes I was ready to switch back, but he wanted to keep using it. So I let him...he wasn't hitting as well as he normally does, but he was hitting much better than I thought he would. He kept saying how much he liked it and didn't want to switch back. I finally forced him to after him using it for about a hald an hour. He wouldn't have been able to use it for a two-set match, too heavy for him, but I thought it was funny to see how much he liked it.
     
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  46. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    It will not hurt your game. It will however hinder your results greatly.
     
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  47. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    Nope.

    How strange. I don't remember "totally condemning" the frame, and I challenge to find such a post from me. (I think you are imagining things, Deuce.)

    I hope I'm not going to be billed for this psychoanalysis. (Mostly because your imagination has gotten carried-away again....)

    - KK
     
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  48. SFrazeur

    SFrazeur Legend

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    I would concur with Duzza here.
     
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  49. BigboyDan

    BigboyDan Semi-Pro

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    What we have here are coaches who can't coach. The worst thing that a good player can do is play high school tennis - participation is NOT intended to serve individual player developement.
     
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  50. Deuce

    Deuce Banned

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    In post #24, you wrote:
    "Anyone actively involved in Jr High and High School Education -- even those on the periphery -- know teenagers' brains haven't fully developed yet."
    Seems to me that if you're "involved in Jr. High and High School Education", then you're claiming to be an educator...

    Ok.
    In post #8, you write:
    "Are you willing to make such a big "case" of choosing to play with [a ridiculous] frame?"
    Seems like a condemnation to me.

    And once again from your post #24 - you are very obviously condemning the boy's use of the racquet (without allowing for the results to be seen):
    "We don't allow idiotic choices for many reasons.... If his under-developed Stupid Filter has him on my practice courts with it ... that's his choice. (But I'll not take him seriously.)"

    I hope you don't call "your boys" "stupid" or "idiotic" to their faces just because they want to do things like experiment with an old tennis racquet.

    You're a funny guy, Karl - I'm just glad that you were never Kaptain of any of any of my tennis teams.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2007
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