GWB's Matchplay 10/26/08

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Gee Willikers Batman!, Oct 26, 2008.

  1. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Then that is by definition 5.5, borderline 6.0.

    How he might fare in USTA 5.0 league play is a topic for another day, and not relivant.

    Hopefully he picks a good school.

    J
     
    #51
  2. TonLars

    TonLars Professional

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    Maybe by definition from the NTRP ratings chart he is a 5.5-6.0, but I call that rating of him right there BullS--- based off that ranking. I must be a 6.5 player then because I play with the #60 something in 18's nationally a few times a week and have never lost a set to him, often times winning between 6-2 and 6-0. Im sure the guy youre talking about will get alot better since he is nationally ranked and serious, etc, but a highschool player does not have the experience to be labled a 6.0 unless he is absolute tops in the nation and going to be a big time impact player at a top Division 1 school going in as a freshman (example: Alex Clayton), or even skip college all-together and try the tour first
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2008
    #52
  3. halalula1234

    halalula1234 Professional

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    u didnt have to make that scary man grunt at 0.32..
     
    #53
  4. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Good points Tonlars, but remember, you have a very consistent and athletic game, which can be a very, very bad match up for a Jr, especially with the age difference;
    even if he is #60 in the country.
    Match ups are a huge part of this game. You would be surprised at some of the players he had to beat to get that ranking. Some you might not beat.
     
    #54
  5. TonLars

    TonLars Professional

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    Yes you are right on those things. Which is exactly why there is no way almost any junior 18s player is a 6.0 rating. They dont have the experience, or often strength, mental toughness, that a top college player or satellite player has. Sure there are the awesome ITF international junior players that are already good enough for satellites or able to come in as a top player at a top 20 Division 1 school, but thats not very many players and is alot different than a player ranked 200, or even 60 USTA.
    Very doubtful! He will improve though he is only 16
     
    #55
  6. supersmash

    supersmash Semi-Pro

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    *Dropshot

    "Oh, you're gay."
     
    #56
  7. futuratennis

    futuratennis Rookie

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    what ntrp r u batman?
     
    #57
  8. fluffy Beaver

    fluffy Beaver Professional

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    Message is too short
     
    #58
  9. FitzRoy

    FitzRoy Professional

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    I don't think the rating is BS. According to those NTRP ratings, he's a good 5.5. You, on the other hand, have beaten guys who have actual ATP ranking points, right? Anyone with ATP points is considered a 6.5, so it's clear that you're 6.0 or higher. So you beating someone regularly does not mean that player can't be considered 5.5.

    But really, the more important consideration is that NTRP ratings are not generally designed for 5.5 and above players. The guidelines themselves state that a player's results at collegiate, national, or international events are the more important and useful measure of ability once you get into this territory.
     
    #59
  10. TonLars

    TonLars Professional

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    I know the ratings chart has descriptions, but that stuff to me and others is somewhat vague for assessing players. Based on subjectively seeing people play, as well as objective results and comparing a wide range of players, I have an idea of the ratings for players in my head. I would consider myself a 5.5 player. That is the reason for what Ive said. But like you said, NTRP ratings are more or less irrelevant, except for league play which generally goes up to 5.0. Serious players playing national, international or college tennis are only concerned about rankings. So it can be expected I suppose that since the whole rating thing is somewhat subjective, and vague in terms of the description, its no wonder people are assigned different numbers.
     
    #60
  11. Toxicmilk

    Toxicmilk Professional

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    I agree. The vague descriptions are the reason why we have so many self-raters who think they are 3.0-4.0 when they are in reality...quite lower <-<...the same people who say they've played for 2 months and have a consistent 120mph serve and a "pro forehand with massive heavy huge tremendous topspin"

    edit:
    @OP-> Nice vid :] a lot better than me and I've played for a bit longer than you. So from that point of view, I'm impressed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2008
    #61
  12. futuratennis

    futuratennis Rookie

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    youve hit the nail on the head there, ive been playing for 8 years or so.. and ive never served 120mph rofl, tennis takes along time to master, u cant just pick up a racquet and play for 2 months and believe ur up there with the best, GWB ive been playing for a long time (not much compared to some of you i know) but if i had to judge u i would say ur ntrp rating would be around the 3.0-3.5 range.. which is quite good considering uve only played for a year and a half.. just work on your footwork and practice and practice.. and most of all.. enjoy urself! which is why i kinda like ur vid, it shows that you enjoy ur tennis alot.. im not claiming to be an expert or anything :D
     
    #62
  13. JoshDragon

    JoshDragon Hall of Fame

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    I watched your video and a few of the other ones that you posted on youtube. I think you're in the 3.5-4.0 range.
     
    #63
  14. Gee Willikers Batman!

    Gee Willikers Batman! Professional

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    Today I am scheduled to play the #2 at my school, Camera MIGHT be available for recording, I'll let you know whats up.
     
    #64
  15. fluffy Beaver

    fluffy Beaver Professional

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    Is he nationally ranked like your #1?
     
    #65
  16. Gee Willikers Batman!

    Gee Willikers Batman! Professional

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    Apparently he used to play USTA but has not lately, I'm not sure.

    EDIT: Sorry, I didn't actually answer your question. He said he WAS a super-champ in 16's. (?) He's a senior now.
     
    #66
  17. SaunderS

    SaunderS Professional

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    Did u record your match?
     
    #67
  18. Gee Willikers Batman!

    Gee Willikers Batman! Professional

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    We did not play yet, we are going to play at 4 PM.
     
    #68
  19. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    He's a 5.0 at most. Top Ranked 200 18s is nothing. Being top ranked 200 overall is a different story (factoring in prodigy kids).


    As TonLars pointed out, a top level junior, if not within the top10 in the nation, isn't going to do jack diddly squat against a decent level college player. Heck, Jordan Rux (Former #1 18s boys) started as a freshman at Baylor, and although he was competitive against some guys, other times he got creamed by a decent player.


    These young guys simply are not fit enough to compete with a true 6.0. Maybe will be able to win against 5.5s, but against a 6.0, where poor physical strength, stamina, and work ethic become exposed (which many of those USTA 18 boys have a problem with), most of the top juniors get clobbered.
     
    #69
  20. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Come on Namranger, If this guy is playing #1 at Baylor, he isn't playing anything but " Way better than decent players." Maybe with some rare scheduling he gets and easy #1 to play, but it has to be very rare. Even on the most Avg teams,t he #1 spot tends to be fairly strong.
     
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  21. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Rux's record for fall freshmen yr.

    Fall 2007 (Freshman)...
    Ranked No.113 in ITA fall rankings ... Finished fall play with a 7-4 singles record which included three wins over ranked opponents: No. 69 Davey Sandgren (Tennessee), No. 91 Nestor Briceno (FLorida) and No. 101 Nolan Polley

    Probably better, or at least as good as Genapri was at this point. He just wanted to go to college.
     
    #71
  22. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    And if Rux is to play #1 for Baylor, he has moved in as a freshman ahead of this mere slouch from Hungary.

    Lukacs JR.

    .. Posted an 18-4 record including an 11-4 mark against ranked opponents ... Claimed the championships of the Fluitt Invitational and the South Central Regional ... Won 10 straight matches from Oct. 13 - 23 and finished the season victorious in 12 of his last 14 matches ... Posted impressive straight-sets victories over No. 2 Steven Moneke (Ohio State), No. 7 Erling Tveit (Mississippi), No. 9 Ryan Rowe (Illinois), No. 37 Conor Pollock (Texas A&M), No. 38 Clancy Shields (Boise State) and No. 44 Bruno Agostinelli (Kentucky) ... By winning the Fluitt Invitational, which featured 13 ranked players among the 20-player field, Lukacs earned spot in 2008 ATP Masters Series qualifying draw in Cincinnati which begins on July 26, 2008.
     
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  23. Gee Willikers Batman!

    Gee Willikers Batman! Professional

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    If I'm a "4.0" (as rated by SOME, although I have gotten 3.5 comments) , there is no way he could only be a 5.0, Nick is at least 1.5 level better then me
     
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  24. TonLars

    TonLars Professional

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    I understand he is a very good player but frankly you have no basis for coming up with that figure that he is "1.5 levels better". Based on his ranking and age together, he is at maximum a low to average 5.5
     
    #74
  25. FitzRoy

    FitzRoy Professional

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    I agree with TonLars that you can't really rate him higher than 5.5 at this point. His "rating" will ultimately be determined by what he does in competitive tennis in the future. Maybe he'll become a top 50 doubles player like Butorac and then you're talking 7.0.
     
    #75
  26. TonLars

    TonLars Professional

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    Haha yeah you never know, never saw that one coming. Basically in singles him and I are a close match but he has always had huge potential for doubles with his height and skills. Its awesome to see a Minnesota, division 3 kid doing what he is. He just worked hard and played the tournaments and improved.
     
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  27. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    I think GWB needs to keep in mind that difference between the higher levels is much greater than it is at the 4.0 level or lower. There's a much bigger difference between a 4.0 and 5.5 than there is between a 2.5 and a 4.0.
     
    #77
  28. Gee Willikers Batman!

    Gee Willikers Batman! Professional

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    I recently received a Dunlop Aerogel 200 and the weight is outrageous compared to the KFactor Team, and Head MicroGel Radical I used to play with.

    I have revamped all my strokes to have less loop and back swing because I do NOT have time with the heavier racket, and faster/heavier balls coming at me at the level of play I play at now (with better people).

    Was this a good choice? I feel I am hitting more crisp and clean and shank a LOT less.
     
    #78
  29. toughshot

    toughshot Rookie

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    if you use a heavier racket

    you should actually have a longer, smoother and more defined swing to aid with generating power/spin
     
    #79
  30. counter_puncher

    counter_puncher Banned

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    here we go again...
     
    #80
  31. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    You make an interesting statement here. It is true from one perspective, but not from another.

    Yes, moving from 4.0 to 5.5 is very demanding, especially if you don't really have the potential to go farther.
    But it is far more subtle than the actual differences on form when compared to going 2.5 to 4.0.

    You can clearly see the diff between a 2.5 and a 4.0, but a 4.0 might only be separated from a 5.5 by the level of competition faced.
     
    #81
  32. Gee Willikers Batman!

    Gee Willikers Batman! Professional

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    I would have to disagree. It would be much harder having a longer/loopier stroke with a heavy racket , rather then that of a lighter one.
     
    #82
  33. Serve_Ace

    Serve_Ace Professional

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    depends how light
     
    #83
  34. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    I said he was a former #1 18s player in the Nation, which he was. You obviously don't read very well.


    Did you see some of his losses? I believe he got bageled in one of them. Granted the guy is VERY talented, no doubt. But he definitely lost a few times due to the issues that many freshman guys have. He went for too much at times, his fitness was questionable, and he wasn't as strong as some of the other guys on the team (in terms of muscle stamina). Yes, finishing 7-4 as a freshman is impressive, but he didn't exactly play too high up, as he had The Hungarian Lefty and a few other European names above him.


    He had one loss that was competitive, the rest were pretty bad from what I remember. And do remember, I actually watch these matches live. I don't go running around looking for statistics like you.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2008
    #84
  35. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    He's a 5.0 at most until I see him play. Period. You have to understand that NTRP rating among juniors is slightly different from that of USTA 5.0 tournament players. Junior 5.0s can cream each other all day, but when they face a crafty 45 year old USTA 5.0, they usually end up hitting balls out of the place, snapping racquets in half, and cursing out of their ass.


    TonLars can tell you that for sure. As a junior, you are playing mostly guys who are clones of each other. When you step up to the college level or open level players, then you start to see guys who are not just all about power, but about finesse, tactics, and just RIDICULOUS fitness.


    Heck, if he played national USTA 4.5 I doubt he could beat some of those guys there. That's because some of the 4.5s in the Nationals aren't really 4.5s. You got sand baggers galore all over the place. Former ATP pros and such :\



    And I seriously doubt that he's a 1.5 level above you, unless he's dishing out double bagels to you without losing more then 5-6 points per set.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2008
    #85
  36. Toxicmilk

    Toxicmilk Professional

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    Vid please :twisted:
     
    #86
  37. Gee Willikers Batman!

    Gee Willikers Batman! Professional

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    He double-bageled EVERY Line 1 Singles at all the high schools we have played (about 12 schools maybe?) EXCEPT for one exception, which was 6-3 6-0.
    I play line 5, I would be lucky for him to double fault so I could get a point.
     
    #87
  38. fluffy Beaver

    fluffy Beaver Professional

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    sounds like the other high schools are extremely weak...

    Is your High School undefeated GWB?
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2008
    #88
  39. Tennisguy777

    Tennisguy777 Professional

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    1 word you lack Consistency. Great strokes but you need to be more consistent period no excuses especially for serves. In tennis consistency wins! I like you're game cause it is almost identical to mine except I use 1 hander. You got a lot of talent now work on consistency. Good Luck
     
    #89
  40. Tennisguy777

    Tennisguy777 Professional

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    Also I think the loopyness on the forehand might be a little too much against 4.5 and 5.0 players it might become a problem if they attack you with low deep penetrating shots.
     
    #90
  41. FitzRoy

    FitzRoy Professional

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    GWB, did anything come of this? How does the #2 at your school do when he plays the #1?
     
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  42. FitzRoy

    FitzRoy Professional

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    I doubt that GWB would have filmed it and then not posted it because he was beaten. Clearly, since the #2 guy is higher ranked on the team than GWB is, it would be logical to assume that GWB would be expected to lose.
     
    #92
  43. fluffy Beaver

    fluffy Beaver Professional

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    It was a joke, because as of late, almost everyone posting "practice" or "matchplay" keep giving excuses to reduce bad comments.
     
    #93
  44. FitzRoy

    FitzRoy Professional

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    Ah. Well, my advice to everyone posting things like that would be: if you aren't satisfied with your own video (IE, you find yourself thinking of excuses), then posting it is a bad idea as almost every video posted here gets at least some negative commentary, and, if you are starting out unsatisfied with your own video, such commentary is probably not going to help.

    So shoot a video that you're satisfied with and post that. But it'll probably still get negative commentary. ;)
     
    #94
  45. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Funny, I don't see your video anywhere. What's your excuse?
     
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  46. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    No reason to get nasty. If I came off that way, I didn't intend it.

    But your comments remind me of a Aub- FL match I went to "live" as you put it, and even when I was at the finals of GA vs Stanford with the Bryan Bros and other future pros, on what has been touted as the best college team ever.

    In both cases the winner didn't seem to be the more talented team. The winners seemed to be pretty steady and very careful about picking spots to be aggressive. Really reminded me to an extent of the 14's pushers that were so opportunistic. John Roddick was whipping the #1 at Stanford pretty good (up a set) when the match was called at 4-0 for Stanford.

    Really, the point is that all these Div I guys are much better than they appear, even if they play 3-5 positions and if they are winning as a freshman at that level, they are at the 5.5- 6 range for sure.
     
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  47. Gee Willikers Batman!

    Gee Willikers Batman! Professional

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    No, the #2 could not play that day, so I did not play that day at all. And my school is not undefeated, our school lost 3 times out of 12 matches, but our #1 is still undefeated.

    I am no longer speaking to "fluffy beaver" or replying to any of his comments, good or bad. I got an e-mail from a member on this forum as WHY not to concern myself with him, and I see no end to his sarcastic remarks and absurd assumptions from absolutely no information.

    fluffy does not want to help me with my tennis, therefore I do not need to speak to him.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2008
    #97
  48. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    Jordan Rux is floating towards a 6.0, but he's not quite there yet. He can still be beaten by many of the upper tier players. He's got some game, no doubt about it. But he still needs some work on his game.
     
    #98
  49. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    Double bageling every line 1 singles in your district? Sounds like you have a weak district to me. Maybe if you said his name was Isamu Tachibana I might believe you, but seriously, if he's dishing out double bagels out that easy, then your district isn't very strong, or he's way better then his ranking says he is.
     
    #99
  50. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Good enough, Cheers.
     

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