Hard to learn how to string?

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by Big_Dangerous, Mar 27, 2013.

  1. Big_Dangerous

    Big_Dangerous Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    5,893
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Thanks, yeah I ended up just putting an awl in there and leaving it in there, even after I pulled the tension through 8 and 10.

    I actually strung the racket up, but I made one error that threw the whole thing off. I didn't realize when I skip 7 H, that the main goes from 8 H to 7 T. So I ended up with mains that were a little too far apart, and then as a result I missed where there was supposed to be a cross. No mis weaves though, and I figured out how to tie all the knots.
     
  2. Radicalized

    Radicalized Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    565
    Great. And best with the new machine--didn't say that before.

    Hey, there has to be the test run, and everyone knows it isn't always perfect with anything.

    Oh, and the one thing I forgot to add before, is aside from the answers already on string lengths for your racquet, I always tell new stringers to measure the string before and then measure how much is left when completed so you know how much is really required for that string (mains and crosses) or possibly how much you would have needed if you came up short.

    Checked out your machine in the Picture thread. Downloaded the manual, too. Added it to my library. Missed this one even though a well-known model. Too bad they don't make manuals better.

    Did you get the DVD that comes with "new" machines?
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2013
  3. Tamiya

    Tamiya Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Messages:
    798
    Location:
    AU, SG, MY
    hah... although I'll bet if you lent that stick to a buddy & didn't tell him,
    it would play perfectly fine!! Amazing how many mistakes we've found
    in our proshop-strung racquets, now that we know better ;)


    my worst booboo so far was shackling the frame to the machine :oops:
    One of the cross u-turns looped around a knob very neatly,
    couldn't notice until trying to take frame off (& couldn't!).
    By then end had been tied & snipped off so too late to undo.



    meh "string" is cheap, you'd only "save" if pulling off a reel
    And if you had to trash a job midway due to insufficient string, that's a big loss.

    Also need to take into account how much some (nylon, Multi) stretches
    as if I measured same in poly (less stretch) it'll come up short.

    Buy by set for bigger choice... :twisted:

    Best tip when string shopping is, check packet to see length especially on older
    sets which can be 36' or less -don't use these on OS 110" or bigger.
    And don't buy sets made for Squash, they're too short also.
    Or some half sets available out there, double check if any are abnormally cheap.

    experience... :oops:
     
  4. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    11,808
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    You not only ended up with mains too far apart but either one too few crosses or some crosses too close together. I bet it didn't look quite right at the top.
     
  5. Tamiya

    Tamiya Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Messages:
    798
    Location:
    AU, SG, MY
    maybe he just omitted the top cross? :)
     
  6. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    11,808
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    If he only left out one cross then he does not have the crosses too close together on one end but his mains are messed up none the less. BUT since he was supposed to go from 8H to 7T he would have to skip two crosses to make it WRONGER. It is a snowball effect when you mess up it just keeps getting worse.
     
  7. Tamiya

    Tamiya Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Messages:
    798
    Location:
    AU, SG, MY
    yeah, it happens :) at least his mains fan 'out',
    on 1 of my oldies I've got a fan-in job done by a pro

    Just the other day tried to do a 16x19 bed & wondered why so many
    shared holes... unravelled it & retried fine as a 14x18 :)
    Should've guessed, being a Prince but it wasn't a POG.
     
  8. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    11,808
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    Yes it fans out but at the bottom which is the narrow part of the racket. Then you may ask where did the last main go? LOL

    Te Prince Ceramic and Aproach rackets were 14 main and probably more.
     
  9. Big_Dangerous

    Big_Dangerous Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    5,893
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Yeah when it was finished I could tell something wasn't right, because between the first and second crosses it looked like the gap was way too big like I missed a cross. I compared it to my other racket that was strung and then I realized my mistake.
     
  10. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    11,808
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    You always know something is wrong when it just doesn't look right. I remember the first time I ran short of string on the crosses. I could tell when I pulled the first cross through something was wrong. And I was right.
     
  11. dadozen

    dadozen Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,640
    It's not hard, but it's time consuming to learn approprietaly. After a few racquets, you'll get better and the money saved from stringing fees, gas and everything else will get the stringer paid in no time, as many have said.

    I've been stringing my own racquets and for some friends for almost 2 years now and couldn't be happier. I think that a dropweight machine is the wisest choice at the beginning.
     
  12. Big_Dangerous

    Big_Dangerous Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    5,893
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Yeah thankfully I didn't have that problem. I just cut the string in half and for both mains and crosses I had plenty of string. I think I'll just do that as my standard way. Go 20 feet on each side.
     
  13. Big_Dangerous

    Big_Dangerous Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    5,893
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Weaving the crosses was the most time consuming thing. That string is tough to pull, and a lot of times if you don't have a tight grip on the end, it'll slip back and you'll have reweave the last few crosses you already did.
     
  14. Tamiya

    Tamiya Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Messages:
    798
    Location:
    AU, SG, MY
    Are you weaving "one ahead" ?
     
  15. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    11,808
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    I showed a method for weaving crosses using beads. I don't use it myself any more but if you are new to strining it may help you especially with poly strings. Here is the thread on that method.

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=406749
     
  16. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,023
    Location:
    Toronto
    Irvin - that's FANTASTIC! It will save me a ton of time stringing. I just showed my daughter and she said we have pony beads downstairs so I can have some. Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  17. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    11,808
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    I think it is good to learn to weave starting out but once you get good at weaving it is easier without the beads IMO.
     
  18. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,023
    Location:
    Toronto
    I've only done 3 racquets so far. Weaving is a nightmare for me so your method is a godsend!

    It's getting easier with each racquet, but trust me when I say it will save me significant time Irvin:):):)

    Maybe one day I'll get good enough to not need beads. But with my level of manual dexterity, maybe not:oops:
     
  19. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,088
    Location:
    tennis courts
    its better if you just practice. training wheels will hinder you
     
  20. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,023
    Location:
    Toronto
    I figure I'll do 10 racquets a year. Not much chance to practice. Very appreciative of the "training wheels" Irvin provided.

    You are correct, but for my purposes the bead is easier.
     
  21. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,088
    Location:
    tennis courts
    oh wow you bought a machine for 10 jobs a year? nice. i string over 2500 a yr and no machine for me:(
     
  22. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,554
    your hands must get all cut up pulling that string with no machine !
     
  23. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,023
    Location:
    Toronto
    Klippermate for $50 used. I typically paid $38 to get RPM Team in my racquets.

    So 3 sticks = $114 and I paid $18 for the string (3 sets of the $24 4 pack special for Spiky Shark.

    So...$50 Klipper and $18 string = $68

    vs $114 for 3 paid string jobs

    Already I've saved $46 on only 3 string jobs:)
     
  24. Big_Dangerous

    Big_Dangerous Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    5,893
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Okay, I strung up my racket last night again, and thought I did everything right, but noticed a couple discrepancies.

    #1: My starting knot wasn't the best. If anyone has any tips on how to tie a good starting knot, that would be great.

    #2: I noticed that when I did my crosses, it seemed like something went a little wrong because if you run your finger along a main string, it should be over, under, over, under, etc. Or vice versa. However, I noticed that there were as many as 3 crosses in a row that ran under the main string. I'm guessing I did something wrong, perhaps a misweave. But does anyone have tips on how they start weaving crosses? I was looking at my other strung racket, and it seemed like it was strung where they started the first cross going over, then they went under for the second and over the rest of the way. I've heard people say it doesn't matter whether you start under or over, as long as you stay consistent throughout, but I don't know.
     
  25. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    11,808
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    Why not use tie off knots rather than a starting knot? Assuming you have flying clamps and not starting clamp. Start you cross running in the 3rd and 4th crosses and clamp the string about 4" from the frame. Run in the 5th cross and clamp the 5th to the 4th. Work down to the bottom of the frame and tie off. then go back up and pull tension on the 3rd cross and move that clamp you installed first to the 4th and 5th string. Now tension from the 4th cross and release and reapply the clamp. Tension the strings up to the top and tie off.
     
  26. loosegroove

    loosegroove Professional

    Joined:
    May 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,008
    I think it's best to do it where the majority of your crosses start under and end over, since it's easier to put the string through the end grommet that way. But it really doesn't matter.

    And for the majority of the crosses, weaving will be the same. So if you start under, then you'll end over, and the same will be true as you start the next cross. However, it does change when the number of mains you're weaving the cross through changes (compared to the previous cross) . This happens near the head and throat of the racket, as you'll notice the crosses start closer to the center of the racket and hence go through fewer mains. So maybe this was the reason for your issue? So you'll have to make an adjustment here with starting your cross so that the patterns and weaves stay true. Or maybe you just made a few simple misweaves, and that was the culprit.

    But for the majority of the crosses, follow the rule that if you start under, you'll end over (or vice-a-versa), and it will be same for the next cross (with the exception that is noted above). Did this make any sense?
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  27. Big_Dangerous

    Big_Dangerous Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    5,893
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Yeah, I'll check again and see if maybe I misweaved. But yeah, I figured that was the general rule, where for most crosses whatever you start with, you end with the opposite one, with the exception of the first few at the top and bottom.
     
  28. Big_Dangerous

    Big_Dangerous Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    5,893
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Just had another quick question. When clamping off the string, especially doing the crosses, does it matter which way you clamp it off? I've been doing it from underneath the string, but I was a watching a video where a guy was stringing his crosses and he put the clamp on top of the string.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDdU6uAhUks
     
  29. Tamiya

    Tamiya Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Messages:
    798
    Location:
    AU, SG, MY
    still early days yet, after a dozen your fingers will have conditioned to weaving



    That was my justification economics too, given that LPS can charge $50-70ea

    But annual quota got reached within 1 week of new toy arriving :twisted:

    Then came experimenting with different strings, tensions, patterns, hybrids... :p
     
  30. Tamiya

    Tamiya Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Messages:
    798
    Location:
    AU, SG, MY
    Those are "flying" clamps, they clamp to 2 parallel crosses at a time
    (Although I'd go below too, myself. So I can see where on string they're clamping)

    You've got fixed clamps haven't you?
    Clamps are fixed to machine base, grip to 1 string only.


    Flying clamps are too dodgy for my liking,
    like playing tug-o-war whilst on a seesaw.
    Fixed clamp worth the extra $$ by my book.
     
  31. Big_Dangerous

    Big_Dangerous Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    5,893
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    For some reason the fixed clamps I have don't work. Every time I clamp them to the string, and then release the brake, the tension is gone. I can only get the strings to hold tension using the floating clamps.
     
  32. Tamiya

    Tamiya Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Messages:
    798
    Location:
    AU, SG, MY
    um, u do lock the lever at the foot of the clamp stand before releasing puller?

    There's lever on the clamp to clamp the string,
    then lever on the foot to clamp the clamp to the machine = fixed clamp.
     
  33. Tamiya

    Tamiya Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Messages:
    798
    Location:
    AU, SG, MY
    [​IMG]

    Foot lever where the Alpha logo is, lever shouldn't travel more than midway or the cam won't lock.

    It can be adjusted, remove rubber bung on the side and stick
    an Allen hex driver in the hole... needs a 2mm on mine.
    Be careful, only needs a fraction of a turn adjustment usually.
     
  34. Big_Dangerous

    Big_Dangerous Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    5,893
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Yeah, I lock both levers before I release the brake, but it still doesn't hold the tension for whatever reason.
     
  35. loosegroove

    loosegroove Professional

    Joined:
    May 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,008
    Actually for ALL crosses , whatever you start with, you end with the opposite. That is the case because all rackets have an even amount of mains, and even the crosses near the top or bottom weave through an even number of mains. You just have to be careful at the top and bottom, because you can't always simply continue starting each cross the same way (referring to under or over) as the previous cross. But for all the crosses in the center of the racket, each cross should start the same way.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  36. Radicalized

    Radicalized Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    565
    Just in case it helps rather than confuses.

    Be careful with the weaves to maintain the under/over (U-O-U) pattern where the racquet changes shape (gets wider and then narrower again). Note the pattern at these points noted in PINK below. Note the internal pattern throughout the racquet however you look at it noted in TEAL.

    Cross that starts over a main, finishes under and vice versa: The above posts have already given a text description of this and why it occurs.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  37. Radicalized

    Radicalized Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    565
    Clamp under the string with the floating clamps.
    Where are you getting the loss in tension with the fixed clamps?

    1) You've adjusted the dial on the clamp tight enough to hold the string used at the time (opposite side of clamp lever to close jaws).

    2) You tension the string.

    3) You raise the clamp and lock the clamp lever to hold the string (close the jaws).

    4) You lock the lever at the base of the clamp to prevent movement along the track.

    5) You release tension.

    So, the base locks aren't holding?

    The string is being held securely by the clamp jaws, right?
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  38. Radicalized

    Radicalized Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    565
    Regarding the starting knot issue, what exactly was the problem? Did the string want to bend and not snug up tightly in general/at a particular step/loop to pass through? What kind of string was it?

    The "handling" of the knot and string is a little tough for me to put in words. Be sure you have a long enough length of string to make smooth curves in the string as you perform each step. Support the loop with your fingers as you pull the tip so you don't quickly add kinks. If using poly, try to get the slack out as you go along and close loops. If left open and you're trying to pull to close another loop, the first may not close neatly and may "kink up."
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  39. Big_Dangerous

    Big_Dangerous Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    5,893
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    I am pleased to say I just strung up my racket perfectly! Well the only mistake I made was that I stupidly cut my big hitter black 7 string like 4 feet too short. So I had to basically waste half a set. I ended up stringing a hybrid with BHB7 in the mains and some alpha synthetic gut. But other than that, the stringing was perfect. I just copied the pattern for crosses for my other racket and it worked out perfectly fine. I think my racket must have a special pattern for crosses, because I didn't misweave the last one I strung. I just started over for the first cross, then under for the second and then over the rest of the way until the last cross, which I finally went under on. I also realized the easiest knot for me to tie is the double half hitch. I'm using that as my standard knot from now on. It even worked as my starting knot too.

    :)

    Now I'm excited to get my 4 packs of Black Shark and 1 set of Sidewinder. I'm thinking about doing a hybrid with those two.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  40. Big_Dangerous

    Big_Dangerous Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    5,893
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Yeah I think the mistakes I made, were that I didn't have long enough string, because I was afraid if I used too much I might not have enough to finish, which I totally had plenty lol. The other thing was that I shouldn't have cut the tail off before pulling tension on the first main. When I strung up my racket tonight, I just waited until I finished pulling tension on all the crosses and tied it off at the bottom before I cut the tail off the top (starting knot).
     
  41. Radicalized

    Radicalized Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    565
    Obviously, I don't know you so I only give out general advice, also thinking others may come along and possibly benefit from it.

    So, that's why I may usually seem of the mind to start off being generous with string and getting down what you need for yourself to get the racquet strung and keep it simple.
     
  42. Radicalized

    Radicalized Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    565

    Great. :cry: on the BHB7. String like that can be an issue regardless of stiffness (Haven't used BHB7.) because of the sides. Yeah the O-U-T, O-U-T is easy.

    You can lower the tension on the machine's spring if you aren't using it.
     
  43. Big_Dangerous

    Big_Dangerous Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    5,893
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Yeah I did that, as the manual recommends you set the tension back to zero when the machine isn't in use.

    I just had one last quick question about two piece vs one piece. I'm a little confused by this. I mean if you are doing a hybrid with two differents strings, then I imagine that has to be done as a two piece job. I'm guessing if the racket says it's one piece, you can just string it up two piece or one piece, but if the racket is two piece then it can only be strung up as a two piece. Or am I way off base with this?
     
  44. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    11,808
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    It is easy but it is not the proper way to tie a double half hitch.

    EDIT:[​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013
  45. Radicalized

    Radicalized Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    565
    For a hybrid, that is using two different strings, a two separate pieces of string are necessary (2-pc.). You can, not that you want to, have different tensions on the mains and crosses with a 1-pc.

    A one-piece is simply that you have two sides of the racquet. You measure the string out so you have enough to complete half the mains on one side, and half the mains and all of the crosses (long side). You alternate tensioning mains still. However, when you tie off, you only tie off the short side. Now, you go on to weave the crosses and then tie off as normal. This is why you only get two knots with a one-piece.

    Note, you are getting into "techie" zone now. There are a number of one-piece patterns one can use, with all kinds of names. Some stringers use one-piece on any kind of racquet unless they have to do a hybrid because of benefits they believe it has to maintaining tension, and the like.
     
  46. Radicalized

    Radicalized Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    565

    That seems to be the "reversed" version. I will inform numerous organizations they are wrong.
     
  47. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    11,808
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    You can start with the USRSA that came from their Stringers digest.

    EDIT: But there are many other organizations that reverse the second half hitch. Which one(s) are right I don't know. All I know is I don't like the knot. One requires a half hitch to be tied from the bottom of the frame and the other from the top and one comes untied too easily.

    EDIT: If it works for you, is easy to tie, does not get pulled into the grommet, and the second knot does not come lose by all means keep using it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013
  48. Radicalized

    Radicalized Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    565
    But first whether you call it a double half-hitch or two half-hitches, it's the same thing. Second, I'm going by standard terminology. Third, I can't scan now but see

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=374555
    Post #14

    The USRSA may approve of it as two single half-hitches in a row, but it isn't a double half-hitch, it is a reverse double half-hitch. I'll add for the knot junkies: lark's head.

    I have a USRSA guide that comes with Gamma machines that even states it as O-U-T and repeat. I'm sure of it. With that same picture.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013
  49. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    11,808
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    I know YULitle's video says that too, "O-U-T and the same thing again." BTW the knot L4L drew in his first picture is a VS Starting knot not a double half hitch. In the second picture what L4L drew is not the way the USRSA draws it.

    EDIT: here are the pic in that post 14 you referenced:

    [​IMG] - [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013
  50. Radicalized

    Radicalized Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    565
    He didn't draw it. It is, at least to me, a USRSA picture, even if not the from the same source as yours. I'm talking about the bottom one (noted as Fig. 3.25). Now we are just debating which picture the USRSA really believes in. Someone call the copyproofer. Again, I'm only talking teminology here. I'm not talking about which is "best" for stringing. I use a Parnell.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013

Share This Page