Hardest Section in USTA

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by deltacore1, Jul 24, 2011.

  1. justinmadison

    justinmadison Semi-Pro

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    He does not advocate cheating in the book but in juniors he was a notorious cheater. It was so bad that after he hooked a kid on the last point and reported the scores the tournament referee made him go back to the court and replay the point. That is a major rep as a cheater.
     
    #51
  2. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    I hear you, but I am specifically addressing his book and how a poster misrepresented it.
     
    #52
  3. jokinla

    jokinla Hall of Fame

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    Well since I came up through the MVTA I would say that, and Jack Sock did just win last years Kalamazoo and US Open, so we do have some talent.
     
    #53
  4. SoCal10s

    SoCal10s Hall of Fame

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    SoCal have 18 players from ournsection playing at Kalamazoo this year..2 ,Marcos and Alexios have a real chance of winning ..
     
    #54
  5. tennisgreat755

    tennisgreat755 New User

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    Didn't do too well at the junior davis cup in Illinois lol. Do you have any idea why Giron or Halebian didn't play that?
     
    #55
  6. mojojojo

    mojojojo Rookie

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    ....................
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
    #56
  7. tennisbuck

    tennisbuck Professional

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    Im from the Missouri Valley, and yes we are pretty bad
     
    #57
  8. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    The places where kids can play outside (free) all year round have the strongest depth. Otherwise there is a big gap in capability between the top juniors whose parents spend big for indoor time and year-round playing time and coaching and everyone else.
     
    #58
  9. TennisA

    TennisA Rookie

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    Seconded as a resident of the area too
     
    #59
  10. tennisbuck

    tennisbuck Professional

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    what i want to know is though, why is the mid west so much better than the Missouri valley? they don't have any better weather than we do.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
    #60
  11. tennisbuck

    tennisbuck Professional

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    Some of there states might even have worse weather than ours
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
    #61
  12. tennisbuck

    tennisbuck Professional

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    why is this not working for me?
     
    #62
  13. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    The easy answer is more population.
     
    #63
  14. MarTennis

    MarTennis Rookie

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    No...

    ... BG's book does not endorse cheating. It endorses obsessive compulsive tennis, mixing it up and mental toughness.
     
    #64
  15. Jen10isFan

    Jen10isFan New User

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    Florida and So. Cal will always be strong. BUT - it all depends on boys vs. girls and the players in the age group at any given time.

    PNW have the following players - all more or less in the same age group:

    - Mitch Stewart
    - Henrik Wiersholm
    - Toshiki Matsuya
    - Spencer Furman
    - Jake Devine (before he moved to Boca)

    That would be one heck of a team.
     
    #65
  16. BHiC

    BHiC Rookie

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    I think a good, unbiased way to decide which section is the strongest is to see what the national ranking of their 10th highest player is. The only problem is that this can only be done to compare similar gender and age groups so, below are the sections listed with their tenth highest nationally ranked players in the 16s and 18s as of 12/5/12-

    B18 -
    1. So. Cal - #50
    2. Southern - #72
    3. Texas - #78
    4. Florida - #97
    5. Mid West - #105

    G18-
    1. So.Cal - #39
    2. Florida - #46
    3. Mid West - #73
    4. Southern - #111
    5. Eastern - #143

    B16s -
    1. Mid West - #67
    2. Florida - #69
    3. So. Cal - #73
    4. Eastern - #93
    5. Southern - #96

    G16s -
    1. So. Cal - #53
    2. Mid West -#85
    3. Texas - #99
    4. Southern - #102
    5. No. Cal - #126.
     
    #66
  17. BHiC

    BHiC Rookie

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    If we give 5 points for #1, 4 points for #2, etc. then the best sections for the 16s and 18s are -

    1. So. Cal - 18 pts
    2. Mid West - 13 pts
    3. Florida - 10 pts
    4. Southern - 9 pts
    5. Texas - 6 pts
    6. Eastern - 3 pts
    7. No. Cal - 1 pt
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012
    #67
  18. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    The problem with this analysis is that it is only good for the actual year you are in.
    Some years, there is more depth in one section with a clumping of boys.
    Unfortunately, you can't do this, but it would be interesting if you could go back the past two years or even five years.......
     
    #68
  19. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    Southern,southern Cali,and Florida The Three Best!!!
     
    #69
  20. BHiC

    BHiC Rookie

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    I agree that this is very limited, I just didn't have the time or desire to go back in older rankings. I don't see any reason why I couldn't be able to go back and analyze the last 5 years - I will if I get some free time.
     
    #70
  21. hhollines

    hhollines New User

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    "Southern,southern Cali,and Florida The Three Best!!!"

    So the reality is, for the rest of us is, we will have to move to SoCal, FL, or TX to have the chance of becoming a top player. I don't want to believe that but the data is unbiased and that's what it says . . . the data is the data.

    We are in Intermountain and it's a major challenge to find court time in the cold weather months and we just lose ground and over the years, it becomes a major issue . . . the delta gets bigger and bigger from the 12s to 14s to 16s to 18s. I guess it's Malcolm Gladwell's social environment argument. You need to be in a good social environment and otherwise it's a major challenge. We become big fish in a small pond.

    It's a major issue for us parents in weaker sections. Why spend $ when the data is overwhelming? Lots of other sports requiring less $ with the same benefits. Or, and I would fight this in the past, the response is "move to CA or FL," if you want to have a chance at play top level tennis.

    Maybe that's just the reality. Other thoughts?
     
    #71
  22. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    ^^^I'd add in some sections like the Southern's you almost don't have to leave the section to get top competition. At the same time can become a very good player. To do the same in many weaker sections my guess to get to an equivalent level you'd have to at least play two to four regional nationals per year. Maybe more.

    To become one of the top players (top 50) I would think the average player with a lot of desire and the resources would need to move or at the least spend some extended time training in more competitive environments.
     
    #72
  23. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    Well, under the new changes all the really good players from your section who are now only playing national and regionals are going to be forced to play back in the section, so the level of play at sectional events will increase. The changes are also going to make tennis a lot less expensive by reducing the cost of traveling becuase now instead of flying to a regional or national events in Colorado Springs or Sacramento they only have to fly to sectionals in Las Vegas or Denver. That will save a soooo much money they will be able to afford the indoor courts now, so they will give up basketball and football for tennis, and you will again have better competition. And I am sure the Intermountian section is working on creating a bunch of really great new sectional events to replace the regional and national opens and you won't have to worry about playing good kids from other sections becuase they are not allowed to play in them. And you wont have to miss school to go play kids in other sections becuase all those tournaments are closed too so you are not allowed to play in those either.

    [/sarcasm]
     
    #73
  24. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    I disagree with uprooting a family for tennis or sending a kid to an academy.
    Uprooting a family for just tennis usually creates a pretty dysfunctional family life
    and having a teenager unsupervised at an academy might lead to some good tennis, but not much else.
    Unless, your plan is to have your junior go pro.

    Where there is a will, there is a way.

    Have your junior be a hitter for other kid's lessons.
    He/she gets the court time and still can work on their hitting.

    Let folks know at your club that your junior will fill in for a missing adult doubles partner.
    Again, more court time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
    #74
  25. hhollines

    hhollines New User

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    "I disagree with uprooting a family for tennis or sending a kid to an academy.
    Uprooting a family for just tennis usually creates a pretty dysfunctional family life and having a teenager unsupervised at an academy might lead to some good tennis, but not much else. Unless, your plan is to have your junior go pro."

    You can't really make that statement. I personally don't agree with the academy approach or home schooling but I've seen it work and I've seen it not work. That's a personal family decision. However, if you can move, keep your family and a job allows you to relocate, that's a decision I have available from time to time given my profession . . .

    "Where there is a will, there is a way."

    I don't disagree but the odds are stacked more against folks in cold weather states/weaker sections and the data support that . . . it's just reality but it doesn't mean it can't be done. We're certainly trying and all the things you outlined are good and I agree (we certainly do them).
     
    #75
  26. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    given the circumstances ( weather, indoor fees etc..) the strongest section is NE:)
     
    #76
  27. BHiC

    BHiC Rookie

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    I agree, the southern section in particular is so large, that there has to be some good players in it! An interesting fact, for overall USTA membership (adult and jr), the Southern section has over twice as many people as the next largest section. And I believe 3 times as many people than everyone except the Mid West
     
    #77
  28. High Rustler

    High Rustler New User

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    So I've always heard #1 and #2 Florida & socal without much argument. #3 southern vs. texas? I've heard texas is way more competitive (I'm metro ATL).

    What say the masses?
     
    #78
  29. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Texas is good but not as strong as the Southern. I'd like to see some stats proving otherwise but doubt they exist. Georgia has a lot to do with buoying the high competitive levels in the Southern Section.
     
    #79
  30. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    Georgia should be its own section.
     
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  31. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    That makes sense. But will not happen .
     
    #81
  32. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    Texas feels the same way about its section, but is going after that result in a bigger way!
     
    #82
  33. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    Texas is it's own section.....
     
    #83
  34. watergirl

    watergirl New User

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    Actually Texas has kids playing in 3 sections. Texas, Southwestern and Missouri Valley due to the distance the kids would have to travel to reach the monthly sectionals.
     
    #84
  35. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    I was alluding to the secession petition, but maybe that was too obscure an attempt at humor.

    I think this forum realizes that Texas is its own section, but thanks for being on top of the fact-checking anyway.
     
    #85
  36. BHiC

    BHiC Rookie

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    Well, I don't know if GA should be by itself, but I have certainty been a proponent of maybe GA, NC, and SC as a section. That would make traveling A LOT easier!
     
    #86
  37. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    ^^^heard that one too. Got about as much chance as Texas succeeding from the union. Seriously. Although it makes sense it's a pipe dream.
     
    #87
  38. BHiC

    BHiC Rookie

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    I know, but I can hope! Traveling all the way to Mobile, Al for 18s Southerns this year is not going to be fun.
     
    #88
  39. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Very true if you live on the outer edges of the section. We love Moblie and been there many times even though the drive is about 6 hrs. We've only played onced each in GA or NC and never played in SC. Going to KY this weekend, 18s. If you're going in-mail me and we could meet up if you want.
     
    #89
  40. High Rustler

    High Rustler New User

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    Just for giggles I did some analysis of the B14 southern list a while back, and I remember ciphering about any way you measured it, ga had about 30% of the Market, NC about 22%, and a pretty big gap to the next state (tn 13% or so).

    While I have marveled at the level of play in a limit 16 draw in Metro Atl GaL3 tourney, I gotta think a comprabale local tourney in dallas or houston, and has got to at least be equal -
     
    #90
  41. brettsticker86

    brettsticker86 Rookie

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    from what ive heard, info ive gathered, and rankings, id say
    1:florida
    2:texas
    3:socal
     
    #91
  42. INTO10s

    INTO10s New User

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    1. Florida
    2. SOCAL
    3. Southern (GA + NC main states) growing quickly & getting stronger

    4. texas
     
    #92
  43. Chemist

    Chemist Rookie

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    For boys,

    Top Group: Southern Cal, Florida, Texas, *******, Eastern, Southern
    Mid Group: North Cal, Mid-Atlantic, Inter-Mountain, Missouri Valley, Middle States, Southwest
    Bottom Group: New England, Pacific Northwest, Northern, Caribbean/Hawaii
     
    #93
  44. Chemist

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    Why the system block mid-west
     
    #94
  45. jgmellor

    jgmellor New User

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    m i d w e s t s p o r t s . c o m is a competitor.
     
    #95
  46. PhotoBlue

    PhotoBlue Professional

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    Indeed he is correct
     
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