Has anyone on the board learned to hit 130mph serves?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by kiteboard, Mar 19, 2011.

  1. Tennis_Monk

    Tennis_Monk Hall of Fame

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    I am sure i have hit a few 130 mph's. They never landed in the court let alone service box. I average around 100 mph and have good placement and decent first serve % --atleast i am happy with my results.

    Someday it would be nice if i can hit a few legals serves in the 130 mph range.
     
  2. DownTheLine

    DownTheLine Hall of Fame

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    People have told me I should check into this. I'll try and see if I can for you guys.
     
  3. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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  4. Aggro

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    Hitting 110mph+ isn't really that hard - its hitting them 7/10 times !! im sure plenty of people can serve at 120mph but they only get them in once out of 30 and can only hit it in the middle of the box.

    Me personally i have hit a serve at 125mph but this is as fast as it goes. This is by no means a consistant serve i reckon a 2/10 shot.

    Average 1st serve speed is around 115mph.

    My question is why 130mph ? if you hit a serve at <100mph and hit the lines you'll win the point easier and use less energy.

    Speed isn't everything.

    But to summarize tips for speed:

    1. Knee bend, body weight going forward
    2. fluid motion on the racket
    3. accelerate racket head through the ball
    4. do all these things in one motion

    People fail to realise the amount of power lost when one thing slows down another action = lots of power lost
     
  5. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Having been gunned in the 1teens, I agree. DTL's the fastest posted in here; almost all of those are in the mid 1teens. What's even more impressive is that he has quite a few glaring flaws, which if fixed, AND once he gets older, stronger and more flexible, he can put up some SERIOUS killers.
     
  6. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    some kid on my team has a serve that is like DTL's but the only thing is, he gets them in like 3times a set, so it is useless. DTL could really hurt someone lol
     
  7. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Sorry, no. Serve speeds are like the Richter scale. An increase in 10mph is an apparent increase of a HUGE amount of speed. I mean a HUGE amount of speed too. Watching someone like Taylor Dent or Roddick at court level, watch them serve around 120mph. Then wait for them to put up a 140. It goes from a serve to something you cannot even see. 80mph to 100, looks pretty much the same. Once you get over 100, ever 10mph seems almost exponentially faster.

    So, if you average 100, I can guarantee you that you haven't ever put up a 130. They demand flawless form in all aspects and simply good genetics.
     
  8. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    Wow, let me take this point by point:

    A) I'm more worried about my kicks and twists since I hit them a majority of the time (more consistent, easier to get into net off of), and I posted these videos because I wanted to get some feedback on the technique (which sucked, btw).

    B) I CAN hit flat serves, but if my kick/twist technique isn't perfect, why should I worry about my flat serves?

    C) Don't you think it's a little rude to be posting other people's videos? What if I found your Facebook, or SS#, or something else personal to you and posted it on the forum for everyone to see?

    In short, get a life troll.
     
  9. DownTheLine

    DownTheLine Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for all the comments guys. I'm gonna start working in the gym to get more flexible and improve my fitness. Hopefully I can add another 5-6 mphs by the end of summer.

    To fix my moving foot problem who do you guy think I should watch serve in slo mo?
     
  10. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    i think as long as it is consistent and you are getting good results, then i wouldnt change it too much...then again, im not a pro but from my POV it looks okay.
     
  11. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    DTL, read my first post after your vid again. I also said you have the live arm, and don't rock so hard onto your back foot instead keeping your TOE on the left foot down. If you keep the heel of the left foot down, you can footfault whenever you go for serves to the left.
     
  12. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    ON court is way faster than on TV. That's the nail on the head. Why is that? You are looking at the whole court both ways. TV is from far away, and you see the whole court, and the ball, although it travels 82' in the same time, time is stretched out when you see on tv. 140, big deal, until you see it live, for your own eyes, not filtered through a bot camera.
     
  13. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    On court, you stand 4' behind the baseline, but really see it from racketstrike to NML, then you tend to lose focus, so short period time.
    On TV, stationed usually a few rows behind the backboard, you see the whole serve even BEHIND the returner, longer distance, and you've seen all the other fast serves.
    Besides, your reactions are MUCH quicker when you are relaxed and sighting out of the sides of your eyes. A couch is very relaxing, getting pummelled bagel and breadsticks is not relaxing.
     
  14. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    This is a guy who could benefit from looking at Raonics serve motion. He starts way forward, moves way back, then goes down into his bend, then goes forward, with the dipsy doodle hip leading up high, then goes straight upwards, and way forwards, for a total of about 10-13' of movement, in each serve, with his head, I mean, his head starts 4' forward, moves 4' back, 1' down and he ends up 8' forward from the rearmost position after his recovery step. He uses both conti and eastern grips. No one else is noticing that, and how much it affects the kinetic voltage into the shot.

    http://www.fawcette.net/2011/02/milos-raonics-serve-close-up-in-video.html Hey, DTL: Study this clip.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2011
  15. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I figure, with ape arms and starting at 6'6", ANY motion, no motion, arming it, will give your 130 to own right of the bat.
    Everything else is just cream pie.
    We don't copy Dr.Ivo's motion because if we did, we'd serve 110mph max.
    If LeytonHewitt was 6'6", we'd be looking at a serve faster than Milo's.
     
  16. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    Change your stance to the chong. STop moving the feet entirely. If you take a close look at Becker, Sampras, Federer, Raonic, they all use the chong, or platorm stance, not the pin point, due to the chongs effect on the leading front hip, it forces the hip higher, because the rear foot stays planted, while the front leading hip bows out over the baseline, and creates an angle. Don't mess with your arm speed. By keeping the toss arm up more straight up, it will force you to lead your left hip out over the baseline more, as you move your center of mass forward hard, for more bow, but still moving your center of mass forward dynamically. Right Pv? Your grip also almost looks like a fh grip, not a continental.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2011
  17. fluffy Beaver

    fluffy Beaver Professional

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    Nope, you've made threads on TW posting these videos, I just re-posted them in a different thread. I'm sure a video that's been posted previously is the same concept as someones SS # yep.

    Dramatic much?
     
  18. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I was sitting a just a few rows up this summer at Cinci when it was Nadal v. Dent. Dent was putting up mid 120s most of the time, then at 40-15 on serve, he put up a 149 up the middle (tournament record). You could not see the ball, and his 125mph bombs seemed like lightning. Even Rafa just looked to his left and walked over to the bench. Insane.
     
  19. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I agree with this entirely as I've been struggling with it for YEARS. The grip thing is something else. Either continental or the "Dent" grip which is a slightly eastern BH grip. The latter, when pronated properly, gives you a bit more pop by making your contact a bit flatter. I personally do not use it and stick to conti and only shift my grip over on second serves.
     
  20. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    I have too. And I see that in your various vids. It's costing you a lot of confidence loss, that bow/hip/stick speed thing. Your shoulder angle is almost non existent due to it. Why do we get stuck on something like this I don't know, but I think it has to do with body blocks, in our childhood exp. somehow. There's no reason why you can't get the hip angled out higher, and keep the toss arm up longer, and get more shoulder angle at all. . Try it without hitting the ball and video tape that and see if you can do it without striking the ball, and I'll bet you can.

    Raonic uses the eastern even on first serves, and esp. on seconds. It creates more of an angle to the wrist, a 45 degree angle, rather than a straight arm barred continental.
     
  21. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    You never see RAfa say, "Nice shot.", or clap like Joker does. He is the current psych job master on tour. All of these guys who claim to be able to hit 115, just go out and see a pro do it, and then tell me, if you are fooling yourself or not! Even DTL, I'll bet, thought his serves were 130.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2011
  22. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    EAch tenth of a point on the Richter is 100% more powerful than the last. And that is analogus to flat serves. In the old days, only a third of atp pros could even hit 120, and now, many of the women can. Noah was doing it every match. Yamaha secret 04 strung with gut. I had nine of them.

    Air resistance, limits how fast a ball can go. We have already reached light speed, and players playing 500 yr. from now, will not hit any faster serves than 155. Of course, they may be using force fields instead of strings to do it! I'll take two L5 fields for returns, and two L 10s for serve games.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2011
  23. Jonny S&V

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    Idk, you're just a creeper, and a creepy creeper at that. Maybe you should try refuting my other points (not that you really can) rather than commenting on my dramatic streak.
     
  24. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    I hate to be insulted on the board, just like in person. It's just disrespectful, and takes away from the spirit of any thread, which is to help each other and to have fun. Just forget/forgive, and show respect to the thread.
     
  25. fluffy Beaver

    fluffy Beaver Professional

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    Just post your 127 MPH serve and I'll leave you be.

     
  26. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    I think Benjamin Becker's motion might be a good example of an efficient
    motion. He can hit 140's and he's under 6' tall. It seems pretty simple, too.
    Watching him in person, it was surprising how effortless his motion was.

    I recorded a few of his first and second serves in slow motion at Indian
    wells:

    http://vimeo.com/20827778
     
  27. mightyrick

    mightyrick Hall of Fame

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    I'm not sure if Rafa even knows how to say "Nice shot" in anything but his own language.
     
  28. wy2sl0

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    I am not going to tell you mine is fast, my friends neither, but his was over 100 easy. I have the best camera of all the footage, its in 1080p, you can see where it lands, and math isn't wrong. Even the worst calculations (ball landed on the line and him being 6'6) it would be like 102 mph.
     
  29. big bang

    big bang Hall of Fame

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    Cant wait for you to post some results or maybe a new video?. Since you obviously just found your magic pill you really should post a video and show your big improvements, just to get us hackers off your back:). Maybe the davis cup captain will see your video and give you a call, you just never know. I know the guy personally, so maybe I could put in a good word for you, you know anything for my country!.

    Oh and that guy you mentioned will also throw in a new car, just so you can enjoy life as a tennis star, pretty nice huh?..
     
  30. DownTheLine

    DownTheLine Hall of Fame

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    No. I always think/thought my serve is around 110-115 solid. I have watched a lot of court level videos of pros and that really humbles on how hard you think you hit. I'll admit I use to think I hit as hard as the pros when I was a 4.0. Now I know how stupid I was.
     
  31. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    You're just becoming obnoxious. Who gives a ****? If he can't serve that fast, then he can't. If he can, then he can. You're hte only one who needs validation. If you don't believe it, then just don't believe it. If you want to watch a 127mph serve video, then watch some Sampras reels. Seriously, your back and forth is getting incredibly annoying.
     
  32. Tennis_Monk

    Tennis_Monk Hall of Fame

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    re read my post. When did i say i have hit 130 legal serve?.
    (I was just saying i have clocked 130 and they never landed "IN". If you think that i havent done that, you are entitled to your opinion)
     
  33. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    I'll try to get some serve video soon. I think I can break 95. Hopefully 100. At 5'8 its hard to bomb them.
     
  34. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    What about that latest excercise in TENNIS magazine with dumbells to increase serve speed ? does that work to help you serve 130 mph + ?
     
  35. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Tennis is a strange game to work off statistics.
    Let's say this college player hits 130 max on his fastest first serve...and get's it in what ..... 40% ????
    So the following point, after missing his heater and then his 75 mph safe second get's pummelled, he ...
    Of course, he hits a 90 mph spin serve IN ...
    Now his AVERAGE speed, even counting he could get 130's IN, would be 110!
    That is not his fastest serve, it's his AVERAGE !!
    Now consider....if he double faulted twice, throws a 75mph kicker in to be safe, what is his AVERAGE first serve speed? You already know he can hit 130 mph IN 40% of the time.
    I figured when playing well, the AVERAGE first serve is easily 15-20 mph SLOWER than his fastest possible speed!
     
  36. Tennis_Monk

    Tennis_Monk Hall of Fame

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    I have been doing those exercises for quite sometime but i didnt see any difference. Others may have different readings/results.
     
  37. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    It doesn't matter, in or out. The motion and the mechanics required to translate that much energy into the ball during a serve motion is a very complicated thing. If your serve motion yields 100mph, nothing aside from an overhead will give you 30 more mph. If you can somehow serve a 130 non-legal, then you should be at least in the 120s legal. Doesn't make sense. I guarantee you that you have no idea in the slightest just how fast 130mph is.

    I played in an open tournament a year ago, and one of the players was an ex-minor league pitcher. He said his max was 136. This man's serve made the entire tennis center stop and look just from the sound alone. Playing against a serve that fast is frightening, but watching the fluidity and seamless transition through the body of potential to kinetic energy is a form of art. So yes, I'll keep my opinion until you see a 130mph pro or D1 server at court level. It is not even in the same category as 100mph because it takes absolute perfect form to get to that speed.
     
  38. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Working out is not the key to speed. Look at Roddick. You need to watch slow motion to understand how he can generate so much racquet head speed. He used to be a stick, but was serving even faster then than he is now (coach induced change, but whatever). The key to his motion isn't his deep knee bend (he doesn't have one) or his pinpoint stance (it really is just a narrow platform stance). The key is his incredible flexibility which allows his racquet to drop SO low in the trophy position that he can recoil with so much energy that it appears to come from nowhere. So no, if you want to workout to improve your serve, work on your spinae muscles to give you a more stable back during unloading. :)
     
  39. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    When you see it in reality it is striking. I don't know why so much more so than tv, but it is. It just is way faster in person, and you wonder, why can't I do that, it didn't look that hard!
     
  40. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    Roddick has a very fast shoulder rotation, and he puts his toss arm with palm to the sky, fingers facing the back fence, and really, really bends backwards, and then just explodes into his pronated internal shoulder rotation. Monfils is a poor copy, as Roddick ends up 4' into the court, just like Raonic does, and neither is a serve/volleyer. If I had those serves, I'd be in on both 1st and 2nd ala Sampras.
     
  41. mightyrick

    mightyrick Hall of Fame

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    I think people get caught up in the numbers. The difference between 120 and 130 is only 10mph, right? Gee, that's nothing. I can jog, 10mph. Right? 10mph is slow.

    But in baseball, it is the same. The difference between an 88mph fastball and a 98/99mph fastball is sickening. Most people don't appreciate the difference unless you've actually faced such a thing. With a 99mph fastball pitcher, catchers are praying that the pitcher puts it where he is supposed to. With a 99mph fastball, a batter has to start the kinetic chain of the swing before the ball even leaves the pitcher's hand. It is that sickening.

    And yes, the sound is different, too. You know when a fastball hits the glove that it is 98/99/100mph. Just by the sound alone. The movies aren't that far off in terms of the sound. Especially for pitches like a cut fastball or slider.
     
  42. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I really think a live arm with good technique, your own, makes for the fastest serves.
    It's nice to be flexible.
    It's nice to be strong.
    It's more important to have both the live arm and good technique.
    And moving forwards NOT afraid to take the return from your own NML.
     
  43. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    Those are all second serves, just to get the point going.
     
  44. mightyrick

    mightyrick Hall of Fame

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    ^^^^ FYI, I've faced a 98mph fastball in the batter's box. This is after playing in high school and facing 84mph fastballs. The experience was this... in this order:

    1) Pitcher starts the wind up.
    2) I tense my grip on the bat.
    3) I see the release point of the pitcher's arm and start to coil my hips and legs.
    4) The ball hits the catcher's mitt
    5) I swing the bat

    It was that fast. 10mph makes all the difference.
     
  45. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    The real question is, is it harder to pitch 99, than it is to hit 130? Only a few can do either. Can you see any woman pitching 99? Venus hit 129! I'll bet she couldn't break 80 pitching.
     
  46. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Yeah, I watched earlier, lulled to boredom by the soundtrack, decided NOT to watch it again although I started it 30 seconds ago.
    All seemed like top/slice or sometimes top/twists to me, to start the rally. Nothing over 100.
     
  47. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    Exactly. The diff between 110 and 120 is this: ace or no ace. The diff. between 120 and 130 is this: Trophy or no trophy.
     
  48. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Not sure if either Milos or Roddick could throw 100.
    Certainly some pitcher's can, but they can't serve 150.
    Lots of people have really quick reflexes. Only a few can drive a race car without disaster.
     
  49. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    No way. Totally different skills. Maybe a top pitcher could learn to hit 120, but not 130, and no tennis player would ever be able to pitch 99 from serving form.
     
  50. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    Look at the last serve he hit down the middle on the ad side. (at end of video)
    I'll upload the video in regular speed of just his first serve at the end.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2011

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