Has Rafa Become a One Dimensional Tennis Pro?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by 3fees, Dec 7, 2012.

  1. merwy

    merwy Legend

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    Lets save the talk for after the australian open. I wonder how he will do there, for some reason I don't see him go out that early.
     
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  2. YouCantBeSerious

    YouCantBeSerious Banned

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    Rafa has become one dimensional, because every time he plays Fed in a slam final he can only win. It would be nice for him to show some multidimensionality by losing sometimes. :)
     
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  3. 6-1 6-3 6-0

    6-1 6-3 6-0 Banned

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    If Nadal is one-dimensional, then Federer is zero-dimensional. Federer is to Nadal as a puppy is to its owner.
     
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  4. Feather

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    I don't think that Rafa is one dimensional and I do consider him a great. It's funny when Roger haters talk about luck. The slowing down of grass hurt Roger the most and benefitted Rafa the most in the Roger - Fed rivalry. When the grass is fast in the first week, Rafa is busy playing five setters with nobodies in second or third round. I think 2008 and 2011 are the only two times he cruised without playing five setters in second or third round. And you talk about luck, lolz haters gonna hate only
     
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  5. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

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    The question is, can that puppy cry ? ..................:twisted:
     
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  6. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Ridiculous for more than one reason. The grass at Wimby was changed in 2001, and Fed didn't win his first Wimby title until 2003 AFTER the grass had been changed. Nadal won his Wimby titles on THE EXACT SAME GRASS that Fed won his on.


    Fed fans seem to have total recall of all things imaginary when it comes to the grass at Wimby since they keep insisting Fed won all of his Wimby titles on the old grass when that is absolutely false. It's also funny how the grass was lightning fast when Fed won Wimby from 2003-2007, and then suddenly turned to clay in 2008, then back to lightning quick in 2009, back to clay in 2010 and then fast again from 2011-2012. I wonder why they think that way? And I wonder which personality the grass will choose to be next year since it's the Jekyll and Hyde of the ATP tour. :lol:
     
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  7. Clay lover

    Clay lover Hall of Fame

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    Oh, I know what you mean. You mean punch volleys. I thought you meant swinging volleys. Punch volleys, yeah, he doesn't do them very often if at all. Swinging volleys, however, he does do them sometimes (in fact quite often when he was young).
     
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  8. Clay lover

    Clay lover Hall of Fame

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    I don't think it's right to discredit Nadal even if he IS quite one dimensional. He does it better than anyone else in the world.

    Also, Nadal has improved A LOT, and I mean A LOT as his career progresses. His added MPHs to his serve, his forehand got MUCH more aggressive (except when compared to early 2004, when he often went for broke off that wing) and reliable, and his backhand has turned from a liability to an occasional weapon. If he is declining, it's due to his mileage, not his lack of skill.
     
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  9. tusharlovesrafa

    tusharlovesrafa Hall of Fame

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    LMAO! That analogy made me laugh so hard..:)
    Ooops! Don't go below the belt,dude.:)
     
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  10. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    What Clarky said about this. Fed has indeed been quite lucky in more than one respect.

    And yeah, Nadal did choke in that match.
     
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  11. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    you mean like when federer hit two unreturnables and one FH winner to save 3 of the 4 BPs in the final set in the 2007 final ? that is a choke ? LOL !

    lol, federer went from 4-1 up to 4-6 in the 2nd set in the 2008 final.... now that was a drastic drop in level and where luck was involved ...

    the only place where nadal choked in either of the 2 finals was the 4th set TB in 2008 when he was up 5-2 in the breaker ...
     
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  12. Crisstti

    Crisstti Legend

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    My answer was a little in "answering to hater" mode so it was a little too harsh. but I do mean that it was clear he could beat him there from that 2007 final, so it wasn't because of mono or fed being (allegedly) past his prime that he beat him in 2008.
     
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  13. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Haha that has to be the most lame excuse ever but I wouldn't expect anything different from you.

    "Nadal choked" haha...and Federer hasn't? Like in at least half of his matches:)?

    There are maybe like 5 encounters when Nadal beat Federer fair and square, in the rest Fed handed the victory to Nadal on a silver plate, that's including 2 major finals.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
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  14. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    i think he is a great all court player. it is just unfortunate that he's put his body through all that at such a young age. hopefully by cutting down on hard courts and playing more on clay it will prolong his career.
     
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  15. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

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    Come on now Tush, surely these Fedfans are hardened enough to take a jab or 2.
    It's all in jest, just like what they do sometimes. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2012
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  16. Sabratha

    Sabratha G.O.A.T.

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    Grass isn't that bad on your kness either, so why is he supposedly skipping Wimbledon too?
     
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  17. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Maybe but again Nadal as a pro is looking at this from a very different point view, he knows how tremendously hard slams are to actually win, I doubt he goes and checks his stats at ATP site or his wikipedia page and goes "Gee I could use another USO and AO to bolster my resumee on HC, that's what I'll win next!" , I mean slam titles don't grow on trees.

    But that's the problem, I sincerely doubt that's a trade-off Nadal would accept and that's presumed he even succeeds in the attempt, what if he focuses heavily off clay one year which costs him his FO title but he still fails to win any of the non-clay slams?

    Now I'm not saying he will never win another off-clay slam or that he doesn't have the ability to do so but they're a far more of an uncertain proposition for him compared to clay where he's still so far ahead of the pack.

    But again I doubt Nadal himself sees it that way, he'll just want to get more slam titles whenever and wherever he can and FO is by far his safest bet so that's where he'll focus, any pro in his shoes would have done the same.

    He's also not in a position like say Lendl was that he lacks the Holy Grail of tennis that is WImbledon in his resumee and will do everything to win it, he already has 2 Wimbledons nor does he lack career slam as he won USO back in 2010.

    No doubt but as Crissti said, a lot of Nadal's success on grass (Wimbledon in particular) depends on his momentum from FO carrying over so it's not that simple.

    I'm not saying that when Nadal comes back he won't try hard to win any of the big tourneys regardless of the surface but his priority will no doubt be the CC season which IMO makes perfect sense given his circumstances, as I said I doubt any pro would think differently in his shoes.
     
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  18. cork_screw

    cork_screw Hall of Fame

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    When you wrote this thread and titled it with the header you did, it sounds like you are referring to his playing style. But I don't know why you would say he's *keyword* "becoming" if he was always very affectionate to the clay surface his entire career. He's always preferred clay. So I don't know why you're referring to him "becoming" a one dimensional player. Plus that doesn't make him a one dimensional player if all he has is a court preference, as he's proven that he's adapted very well to grass and hard court. He can play and both and currently plays very well on both. In fact, last year he placed in the finals again at wimbledon and what other spaniard does that? So is that a one dimensional player? You ask me... He's always preferred clay it and played and resulted best on it, but that's like me preferring Lucky Charms, but that isn't to say that I won't eat Raisin Bran. Rafa hasn't changed much in that regard. If you take that out, then rafa has always preferred the surface, so I don't see what the point to this thread is about. But I will say this for rafa. I think he could easily play more clay matches and skip out on more hard court events. I think he could beat guys bagels and breadsticks and breeze through even teh smaller tournaments and accumulate maybe more points than if he played more hard court matches. The worry there is that it's such a tight stretch, he might fatigue himself. But I do think he should play less hard court. I think it puts a much strain on his body and to me, it's unnecessary as his priorities should mainly be Clay, Grandslams, and 1K hard court tournies.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
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  19. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Well it's hard to say how such relatively long layoff will affect him but I agree, If I were betting, I'd say Nadal will get to Pete's slam record at the very least before it's all said and done.
     
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  20. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    You have either serious comprehension problem or you pretend. I never said all these things, since you addressed all these things to me.

    Grass was slowed down in 2002 after Goran won his Wimbledon. When Roger and Rafa play slowed grass helps Rafa. Roger didn't reach finals by playing five setters in round two and round three like Rafa. Ecept for 2008 and 2011, Rafa was very close to elimination in the early rounds in Wimbledon, thats when Grass was fast compared to last rounds. This is fact not opinion
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2012
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  21. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Oh, man this is too funny. :lol: You missed the point of my entire post. And Nadal was also on the verge of elimination in 2010 at Wimby but he won it didn't he? *******s complained to no end about how slow it was that year(and any other excuses they would come up with including Nadal calling the trainer and supposedly getting coached). Just like they do every year if Nadal does well there. Why can't you understand that?

    And sorry, Fed still won his Wimby titles on the same grass Nadal won his on. That's not disputable because it is a FACT.


    And *******s do go on and on about how slow it is when Nadal does well there, but they never say that when Fed wins it. I wonder why? I have actually seen *******s say the grass was faster when Fed has won it hence why I made the comments about Wimby grass having multiple personalities.
     
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  22. Gonzo_style

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    You didn't know that Clarky? Fed's result on some tournament is a speed test.
     
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  23. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    This is true. If Fed does well somehwere it's a fast surface, but the second he starts struggling the surface becomes as slow as molasses. Lol. It's just a way to try and make excuses for Fed's results, and denigrate Nadal at the same time.
     
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  24. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    "*******s" don't mention when Fed does well even if the grass is slower because he's not supposed to be as good on slow surfaces as he is on fast ones. Even so, it's more about the bounce than the speed I would say. I would also say the grass was still relatively "fast" compared to today, in 2003, 2004, and 2005, (I might include 2006, if I didn't know you would lose it on me because he beat Nadal there :)).

    Watch this video as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soJ_FVnijAw I don't know of its credibility though. I will say that much. And it could have to do with more than just the grass, like the type of balls that were used.

    It's not as if the grass got slow all of a sudden though. I think it's been a gradual thing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2012
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  25. Goosehead

    Goosehead Hall of Fame

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    the grass was changed after wimbledon 2000 or 2001..i thought, as do alot of people, that it was changed after wimby 2001 but apparently it was after 2000.
     
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  26. Clay lover

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    If any surface is slow...it always helps Nadal more than it helps Federer...as if Nadal has some unfair advantage on that surface...this is TW logic for you
     
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  27. merlinpinpin

    merlinpinpin Hall of Fame

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    Duh.

    Slow and high-bouncing favours Nadal's game, fast and low-bouncing favours Federer's, there's no "TW logic" involved in this, it's just so obvious it shouldn't even need mentioning. :confused:

    So, yes, despite what Clarky fails to understand (or pretends she doesn't understand), of course the slowing down of surfaces hasn't been in Federer's favour. Which is not to say that he would have won more Wimbledons on faster grass, but he would clearly have been more favoured vs Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray than he is on current "slow" grass. ie he would almost certainly have won the 2008 final on faster grass, but on the other hand, he very probably would have lost in 2009 to Roddick (and maybe in 2004 as well), so maybe it wouldn't have been to his advantage *overall*, but it sure would have been *against Nadal*.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
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  28. Clay lover

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    Yes, because we all have a crystal ball to see whether Fed would do better IF faster grass was used. And it's not just against Nadal, how would you know if he would be better off against other players? What about the two finals against Roddick? Certainly even faster grass helps Roddick's serve. Hardcourts you might have a point, but I don't think we should generalize across all surfaces. Remember,not even Fed won a Wimbledon before it was slowed down.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
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  29. merlinpinpin

    merlinpinpin Hall of Fame

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    Which is exactly what I wrote in my post. ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
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  30. merlinpinpin

    merlinpinpin Hall of Fame

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    Lol! Looks like we both answered while the other guy was adding to his post, nicely done! :D
     
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  31. 3fees

    3fees Hall of Fame

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    2012 Season:
    Season record 42–6 (87.5%)
    Calendar titles 4
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    Ranking change from previous year down 2

    All of his tournament wins were on Clay Court:

    Monte Carlo,Barcelona Open Banco Sabadell,Internazionali BNL d'Italia,French Open

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Rafael_Nadal_tennis_season

    :mrgreen:
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
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  32. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    That 87.5% win percentage should have an asterix, he only competed during his best portion of the season...
     
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  33. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    of course not. he always was very versatile. especially in excuse making
     
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  34. 3fees

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    Okay, 87.5 % *

    :mrgreen:
     
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  35. Clay lover

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    Yeah, I thought people (or you) were talking about overall. Then I would say no, simple because of the fact that we never know. But if we are talking about match-ups, then I agree Fed would fare better against guys like Djokovic and Nadal. Murray I don't know, he's a good fast court player too, actually.
     
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