Head pallets on a Pro Kennex Redondo/Black Ace

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by Gee, Feb 11, 2012.

  1. Gee

    Gee Professional

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    Anyone did this before?

    I am intended to put Head TK82 pallets on my PK BA98 and Redondo because I prefer a Wilson shaped grip. I read on this forum that this is possible however there will be a gap between the halves as the Pro Kennex hairpin seems to be slightly thicker than a Head one.

    So the grip 'll be a bit rounder through this gap. I guess TK82S grip pallets 'll be more a Prince shape whereas TK82 pallets 'll be more like Wilson ones.

    I am only not sure what grip size of the TK82 pallets (L2 or L3) I should buy if I wish to create a L3 4/8 Wilson grip. I think I should choose a L2 as it 'll be slightly bigger than a normal Head L2. Besides I can increase the grip size easily with some extra tape if needed.

    I would appreciate any advice about this subject.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2012
    #1
  2. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    TK82 and TK82S are identical in shape at L2. Only when you move up to L3 or larger can you tell the difference.

    So if you get L2, don't worry about which pallet.

    But I have seen posters who replace their TK82 with TK82S on their head racquets in order to get the Wilson shape and have been quite disappointed.

    So you just might be better off sticking some tape on the PK pallets.
     
    #2
  3. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    Also, if you want to get rid of the space bet the two pallet halves, go with Volkl pallets instead. Volkls are deeper but have the same width as the Head pallets.
     
    #3
  4. Gee

    Gee Professional

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    Thank for your good advice on the Volkl pallets. I didn't take those into account. They also seem to be available into different variations on TW Europe:

    Volkl Bio Sensor "R" Pallets Organix 8/10
    Volkl Bio Sensor "C" Pallets Organix 4
    Volkl Bio Sensor "S" Pallets Organix 6
    Volkl Replacement Grip Pallets

    Which one (and what size) would you recommend if I wish to create a Wilson L3 grip shape?
     
    #4
  5. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    All the Biosensor pallets come with buttcaps that have a yellow plastic stick, which extends from the middle of the butt cap into the hairpin about 1.5 inch deep. So you need to see if the PK hairpin can accommodate that.

    You can, of course, remove the yellow stick, which will sort of give you a small open hole (instead of a trap door) through which to access the hair pin in case you want to add weight in it later.

    Bio Sensor R pallet and the Volkl Replacement Grip pallets are identical except for the butt caps, (the latter is completely closed off, no hole or trap door).

    C pallets, according to TennisMaverick, are only for the 4 series because they have a different hairpin shape.

    S pallets are the so-called Attiva pallets, which are more squarish than the regular Volkl pallets. Now those who want the Wilson shape usually choose this one. But the end result would be hard to tell. According to NoBadMojo, Attiva pallets do not give you sharp bevels.

    So you might want to order one regular and one S pallet and the 2 different Head pallets and see which would give you the best result.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2012
    #5
  6. Gee

    Gee Professional

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    Thanks again, Scotus!

    What grip size should I try of these ones? I guess the following:
    - Volkl S-pallet and Regular grip 3
    - Head TK82 and TK82S grip 2 as TK82S grip 3 'll probably be too round. However I still have 2 TK82S pallets at home so I can try these one at least.

    What do you think?
     
    #6
  7. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    Gee, I need to be gone for a while, but give me about 6 hours and I'll get back to you with photos comparing Size 2 and 3 in Volkl and Head.
     
    #7
  8. Gee

    Gee Professional

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    Ok, that would be great. Take into account I 'll still sleep then (at 3 o´ clock am) as I am from Holland, Europe. I 'll check this thread tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2012
    #8
  9. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    Gee,

    As promised, here are the photos.

    Unfortunately, the photos do not seem to depict the actual size all that well. Here they are, nonetheless.

    [​IMG]

    From the user's point of view, left to right:
    (1) Volkl Regular L2
    (2) Volkl Regular L3
    (3) Head Speed (TK82S) L3
    (4) Head Regular (TK82) L3
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2012
    #9
  10. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    [​IMG]

    From the user's point of view, left to right:

    (1) Head Speed (TK82S) L3
    (2) Head Regular (TK82) L3
    (3) Head Speed (TK82S) L2
    (4) Head Regular (TK82) L2
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2012
    #10
  11. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    Out of all these, Volkl L2 will give you the most square shape:

    3.0 cm wide and 2.7 cm high. But I do not know how closely that would resemble a Wilson handle.

    Head Speed might give you a very square shape as well, but as you mentioned you will have a gap between the 2 pallets.

    I do not have any Volkl Attiva pallets, so that's something you might want to acquire and see which works the best.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2012
    #11
  12. Gee

    Gee Professional

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    Wow I am impressed, Scotus!

    It doesn't make easier to choose but I think I 'll try Head TK82 L2 or Volkl L2 first
    Will there still be a minor gap with the Volkl L2 (as it is deeper than Head)? And will that be slightly smaller than the Head L2 as a result? If this is true then I better choose the Head L2. Do you agree?
     
    #12
  13. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    Measure the depth of the hairpin on your PK (outside to outside of the graphite vertically).

    The Volkl pallet is around 20-21 mm deep on the inside, whereas Head is 17-18 mm.

    The inside width (horizontal) for both is around 25 mm.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
    #13
  14. Gee

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    Ok I 'll remove the PK pallets from my Redondo. I only hope I am able to manage that because I didn't often before. Only once. But I still need to remove the pallets because the grip cracks when I squeeze firmly.
     
    #14
  15. scotus

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    Heat is your friend.

    Apply a lot of heat before and as you pry it open.

    Well, it is past 4 a.m. here, so time for me to get some sleep.
     
    #15
  16. Gee

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    Good night. Hear you soon!
     
    #16
  17. Gee

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    A hole into my PK Redondo grip pallet... How disappointed. That causes the cracking sound probably.

    [​IMG]
     
    #17
  18. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    GEE:

    I sent you a reply to your email and Private on this forum and both bounced.

    1) Whatever scotus said about TK82 and 82S being the same is not correct.
    2) If you wish to come close to the L3 Wilson shape on your PK BA, go with the TK82 L3 as the PK hairpin is a little bit "thicker" than the Head hairpin, therefore, will give you as close as possible to the L3...
    3) I have one L3 PK brand new pallet set. Email me your address and I will ship it to you
     
    #18
  19. Gee

    Gee Professional

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    Hi dr325i,

    Glad you found me here!

    Sorry I changed my email address but I updated this so it should work well now.

    Regarding 2) I am still a bit confused what grip size I should choose as the result will be a slightly bigger grip size because of the gap between the halves. Irrespective of what size (L2 or L3) you choose. So I guess a TK82 L2 might be a good fit as well. Or is L3 still closer?

    One time I put a TK82S L3 on a Head Prestige Classic. Unfortunately that felt too squarish and slightly too big to me. After that I replaced it with a TK82S L2 that felt a slightly better however a little too small and a bit too squarish.

    I read you tried a TK82S L3 PK BA98 that seems to be too round. Did you try a TK82 L3 as well?

    Regarding 3) Please send me an email about this.
     
    #19
  20. scotus

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    For all intents and purposes TK82 and TK82S are identical in L2 size. The differences in measurements are so minute that they are simply interchangeable. When you get to L3 or larger, then you don't even need to measure. You can see and feel the difference. But at L2, you can't.

    [​IMG]

    Now here is the juxtaposed view, a half of each model:

    [​IMG]


    DIMENSIONS:

    TK82 Size L2
    Width: 31 mm
    Height: 16.5 mm
    Horizontal side: 11 mm
    Vertical side(with top and bottom joined together): 10.5 mm
    Slanted side: 11 mm

    TK82S Size L2
    Width: 30.8 mm
    Height: 16.3 mm
    Horizontal side: 11 mm
    Vertical side (with top and bottom joined together): 11 mm
    Slanted side: 10.7 mm

    Note that there may be up to 0.5 mm in error for each measurement. There are QC difference for each pallet, and even within a single pallet, measurements differ slightly at various points along the length of the pallet. Also, when you put glue or double-sided tape on the hairpin and press these down, you will also get micro differences in the final handle size.

    Again, for 99% of players, TK82 and TK82S are interchangeable at L2.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
    #20
  21. Gee

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    Scotus,

    I tried to remove the buttcap but the nails are pinned so deep that I didn't manage to loosen them. That's why I called my handy friend. He 'll help me with that next Wednesday.
    After that I 'll let you know the measurements of the hairpin of the PK.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012
    #21
  22. scotus

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    You'll need a micro flathead screwdriver and a hammer and a blow dryer.

    The flathead needs to be narrower than the staple. Jam it into the buttcap right next to it, and tap it with the hammer several times. Once the screw driver gets under the staple, then it is a matter of wiggling it out.

    PK buttcaps are a headache to take off, because they use silicone adhesive in addition to staples (at least on the Kinetic frames).

    Once the staples are out, heat up the butt cap area until silicone becomes bit loose. Then you'd want to jam a larger flathead screwdriver right under each buttcap panel to wiggle it open.

    It can be quite time-consuming.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
    #22
  23. Gee

    Gee Professional

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    Oh man, what did I start?! Nevertheless I really want to learn how to replace grip pallets and this case is a good lesson in racquet customizing!
    Thank you for the instructions! I 'ĺl try this.
     
    #23
  24. counterpuncher

    counterpuncher Professional

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    There is a difference in feel, as I have performed a swap from a TK82 to a TK82S L2 at least on three racquets and can easily feel the difference.

    What you need to take into account, is that by the time you add a grip and perhaps overgrip over that pallet, the overall diameter of the grip is larger and the minute differences you listed become magnified.
     
    #24
  25. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    If that's the case, you tell us which one feels more like a Wilson handle.
     
    #25
  26. counterpuncher

    counterpuncher Professional

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    I agree with your view the Attiva S is closest, followed by the TK82S.
     
    #26
  27. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    Well, there you go, Gee.

    I think you just need to take measurements of your hairpin and make a decision.
     
    #27
  28. Gee

    Gee Professional

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    What is the make of the racquets?
     
    #28
  29. Gee

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    Yes I still need to manage to remove the pallets in order to measure the hairpin. First I 'll purchase a hair dryer tonight.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2012
    #29
  30. counterpuncher

    counterpuncher Professional

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    TK82 is the standard Head pallet and the TK82S is the more rounded pallet which is closer to a Dunlop shape that is on the Head Speed series of racquets.

    The Attiva pallet is from Volkl and was offered on their Attiva racquet that was marketed specifically for women. It is like a very squared side Wilson shape, very much like the old Fischer shape.
     
    #30
  31. Gee

    Gee Professional

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    I already knew this but I wanted to know on what racquets you replaced the TK82 L2 and TK82S L2 pallets. If you performed this on Head (or Volkl Attiva) racquets then the pallets will fit perfectly (without gaps).Then I understand why you would opt for a TK82S (or a Volkl S pallet) that are closest to a Wlison L3 grip shape. But the hairpin of PK frames is thicker than Head ones.
     
    #31
  32. scotus

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    Gee,

    Did you manage to take the butt cap off your PK?
     
    #32
  33. Gee

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    Yes! I managed to remove the PK pallets and buttcap!

    [​IMG]

    Finally I succeeded in removing the pallets. I am glad I purchased a hair dryer because that is a very handy tool in order to loosen the pallets.

    I was gladly surprised to see the silicone gel into the handle. I noticed an hole into the hairpin with a pair of metal pins as well.

    I measured the surfaces and diameter of the hairpin (from laying down on a table view as shown in the picture above):

    Horizontal surfaces: 17 mm
    Vertical surfaces: 10 mm
    Diagonal surfaces: 5 mm

    Diameter: 82 mm

    Well, now the big question: Scotus... What grip pallet (and size) should be the best option for me?
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012
    #33
  34. Gee

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    The buttcap was a real pain to remove...

    However the buttcap was a real pain to loosen because the 12mm long staples were very deep within the buttcap. I finally managed to remove them by tapping a small screwdriver with a hammer.

    [​IMG]


    The PK pallets were easier to remove with a hair dryer. However you still must to perform this step with patience and care...

    [​IMG]
     
    #34
  35. scotus

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    What is the height and width of the hairpin? (End to end)
     
    #35
  36. Gee

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    From laying down a table view:
    Width: 26 mm
    Height: 19 mm
     
    #36
  37. scotus

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    I would definitely go with Volkl pallets, because it will not give you that large gap between the 2 pallet halves.

    But since the Volkl pallets are actually 1-2 mm longer in height than the PK hairpin, you can apply one or two more layers of double-sided tape on the top and bottom surfaces of the hairpin in order to make it a tight fit. Make sure that it is tight and that the pallets do not squeak when you squeeze the handle (if you hear a squeak, then it may lead to a crack down the road).

    Now all you need to do is order pallets. My gut instinct is to go with the Volkl Attiva pallets in your grip size. Just remember that the bevels are not going to be as sharp as regular pallets (at least that is what I gather from a fellow TW poster NoBadMojo).

    Personally, I would order several different types of pallets, just to tinker around.

    Great work on your very first buttcap and pallet disassembly! Let me know how the rest of your project comes along.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012
    #37
  38. scotus

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    When you put the pallets on, you need to apply pressure evenly along the length of the pallets to get them to adhere tightly to the hairpin.

    Some do this by wrapping a leather grip tightly around for a day or so. Volkl actually wraps the pallets with clear packaging tape very tightly (just like you'd wrap grips) and leave them like that on their racquets.

    Try not to use clamps to keep the pallets together. The pallets are too soft and fragile, and clamps will leave indentations on them, ruining bevels.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012
    #38
  39. Gee

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    Thank you, Scotus! Earlier I was too afraid to try this but thanks to your help I finally got the courage!

    So do you mean the Volkl Attiva pallets size L3 will be the best option?
     
    #39
  40. scotus

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    I would think so, as long as you remain flexible about the fact that nothing is going to give you the exact Wilson shape.

    You can get close to it, but if you really want to be exact and precise, your have to go to Priority One or **** and pay them a lot of money.
     
    #40
  41. Gee

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    I still hesitate about Volkl Attiva L3 because I guess it will be too round. I am considering the regular Volkl L2 as I guess that will be a bit more square than a PK grip shape and a bit bigger than a L2 because of extra layers of masking tape at the top and bottom bevels.
     
    #41
  42. scotus

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    Get both!

    If you don't like how one of them feels, try the other one.
     
    #42
  43. Gee

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    Yes you're right. I 'll order both from TW Europe.
     
    #43
  44. scotus

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    And order double-sided tape while you're at it.
     
    #44
  45. Gee

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    What size? I still have a roll (of 5 cm wide) at home.
    Besides I have master tape (19 mm wide) as well.

    I only need to purchase a miter box and saw.
     
    #45
  46. scotus

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    That sounds good enough.
     
    #46
  47. Gee

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    Just ordered:

    - one Volkl S-pallet L3
    - one Volkl Standard L2 (because I need build up the top and bottom surfaces with layers of tape).

    Delivery will be probably 21th of February.

    Thanks again for your help. I 'll keep you posted when I receive the pallets and ready to continue.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012
    #47
  48. counterpuncher

    counterpuncher Professional

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    I replaced the TK82 L2 pallets with TK82S L2 pallets on a Head LM radical, MG Prestige Pro and YT Prestige Pro. I also replaced a BB London pallet with the Attiva S.

    Switching manufacturers, I only did this once, Volkl pallet on a Head. While close, the pallet doesn't fit without sanding down the sides of the Head hairpin about 1mm each side, and placing a strip of tape on the top and bottom of the hairpin.

    If the PK hairpin is thicker, then as I did, you will need to sand it down slightly.
     
    #48
  49. Gee

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    Hi Counterpuncher,
    Thanks for your tip. You might be right as the PK hairpin is 26 mm wide and 19 mm deep. How do you sand down a hairpin? What tools do you need for that?
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2012
    #49
  50. counterpuncher

    counterpuncher Professional

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    As it was only a little, I just used some not too coarse sand paper and a sanding block. Of course the other option is sanding down the inside of the pallet, if you did not want to modify the hairpin of the PK.
     
    #50

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