Head Pro Tour 630 is 20 years old now

Discussion in 'Classic Racquet Talk' started by vsbabolat, Jun 11, 2014.

  1. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    I cant believe its been 20 years since the Pro Tour 630 had been released and still winning slams on the ATP tour. Its really goes to show how marketing departments are in overdrive coming up with fluff that don't improve performance and only hurts the feel of the racquets. Its a shame that such a fine racquet is available to only Tour level players.
     
    #1
  2. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    #2
  3. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    There is always the auction site. That is where I got most of my 280/630's.

    Still ranks as one of the best rackets ever IMHO. Does everything well.
     
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  4. pt630_belgium

    pt630_belgium New User

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    Couldn't agree more:!::!:

    I still hope one day it will come back. For myself, i wont buy another racket untill head brings back te legend.
     
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  5. pt630_belgium

    pt630_belgium New User

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    Other question.
    Are there "designed in austria" versions with no mention "head barcode label inside" and with no mention "made in china? :confused::confused:

    Because i have:

    1x made in austria
    2x designed in austria with "head barcode label inside"

    And they offer me 2 rackets "designed in austria" but no mention "barcode"
    and no mention "china" :confused::confused:

    ps they seem in very very good condition
     
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  6. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    I have not seen a Designed in Austria Pro Tour 630 without Barcode label inside. Do have photos of the racquet in question?
    The Pro Tour 280 without Barcode Label Inside were made in China.
     
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  7. pt630_belgium

    pt630_belgium New User

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    I have asked detailed photos!
     
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  8. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    Where, just like the PC Tour, the early "Designed in Austria" rackets not all made in Czeckoslovakia..?
     
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  9. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    Doesn't seem to be that many DIA 630's. The one I have has the HBCLI notation on the side. The other 630's I have are all MIA. I don't think there are any PRC made 630's, just some 280's.

    I think the HBCLI DIA's (both 630's and 280's)were made in the Czech Republic after Head transferred manufacturing there to take advantage of exchange rates. Then, the big move to the PRC (along with all the other companies.)

    I have some DIA's 280's that have no HBCLI notation and no mention of the PRC. Usually the only mention of China on 280's is on the butt cap (and sometime just a removable label on the butt cap.)

    I wouldn't sweat the origins that much. They play pretty similarly IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
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  10. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    The China 280 did not come about until 2000 and were SMU for the internet retailers and big box sporting good stores. HEAD's mainline premium frames were still Made in Austria.

    Racquets that are Designed in Austria with Barcode Label Inside were manufactured in Austria and finished (painted and etc) in the HEAD factory in Czech Republic.
     
    #10
  11. pt630_belgium

    pt630_belgium New User

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I wait for other ones
     
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  12. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    No 630/280 was manufactured/made in The CZ. Some versions were finished: paint, grommets, pallets, gripping in the CZ, the frames were made in Austria.
     
    #12
  13. tandayu

    tandayu Professional

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    Who was/were first atp/wta player(s) using pt57A? It looks like many used radical tour MP in early 90s.
     
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  14. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    I think they look okay. I don't think there was ever a problem with counterfeit
    280/630's if that is your concern. The big counterfeiting of rackets started later.

    The shrink wrapping on the grips doesn't look original and the butt caps don't look original to me but hard to tell from the pics.
    It is possible they have been re-palleted at some point. Opinions?
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
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  15. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    Probably Muster? Sanchez?

    Haas used it as did Guga, David Wheaton and some others. Can't recall a female player using it but maybe they did.
     
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  16. retrowagen

    retrowagen Hall of Fame

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    I remember Thomas Muster first with this racquet, but I don't really know if he was the first pro to use it, perhaps only the first to win a big tournament with it? :confused:
     
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  17. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    Sanchez and Muster were the first. Supposedly they had a hand in the design. Haas, Simon, Murray are all still using the Pro Tour 630 to great effect!
     
    #17
  18. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    I'd like to see what it says above the grip and inside the throat. Those are Chinese butt-caps. Its should have a hologram butt-cap or the standard black butt-cap with a black sticker and silver ski tip logo.
     
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  19. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    #19
  20. pt630_belgium

    pt630_belgium New User

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    Recieved the photos in high resolution.
    Indeed: DIA but no HBLI :confused:
    And no other mention:confused:

    Just in the buttcap is a number stamped but cannot read it
     
    #20
  21. pt630_belgium

    pt630_belgium New User

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    By doing a search on the forum i found this

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=153613&page=2

    [​IMG]
    A picture of the pt280 china batch.

    They look very similar to those on the pt630 that i posted before.
    I wonder if it would be possible that there was a DIA pt630 batch that was made in china.

    What would both rackets be worth?
     
    #21
  22. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    I agree that "Its a shame that such a fine racquet is available to only Tour level players"

    Just produce larger lots of the pro stock rackets and let TW sell to the buyers in the know for a descent profit for both Head and TW. Is this not a win win for all ?

    Don't forget the PT280 is also just as nice:

    http://woodtennis.com/head/pt57a/pt280_pt57a2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
    #22
  23. boinz

    boinz Rookie

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    Anyone gonna start sharing pics of their lovely PT630/PT57a collection?
     
    #23
  24. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    always thought the PT280 and the PT630 were the same and that the 280 referred to square inches while the 630 referred to square cm.
     
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  25. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    no doubt PT280s are sticks with great feel, but since i've started stringing my APD at 40#s, i just can't see myself going back. feels really good and makes the game so much easier.

    i'm finding that all my favorite sticks play even better at lower tension so maybe i just need to try my PT280 at 30#.
     
    #25
  26. corners

    corners Legend

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    VS, what exactly is it about these heritage frames that makes them superior to today's offerings. I know why they are superior - more solid feel, naturally low vibrations, etc. - but what about the layup and construction gives them these qualities?

    And what are they doing wrong with current models? (Graphene is a new aberration, but no one seemed satisfied with the last couple Prestige and Radical generations either.)
     
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  27. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    Same racket as the PT630. The 280 name was part of the Trisys scale (Head's version of Wilson's Swing Index # and Prince's Power Level schemes.)

    The Prestige was the Trisys 300, the Pro Tour the 280, the Radical the 260, etc.
     
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  28. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    Possible, I suppose. My bet would be that they were re-palleted at some point so the butt caps are not original. Hard to say for sure but the conventional wisdom is that there are no Chinese 630's. Maybe there are a few? Not sure.
     
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  29. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    thanks. that's what i thought.

    so the PT280 is lower powered than the PT630, right? ;)
     
    #29
  30. retrowagen

    retrowagen Hall of Fame

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    Some suggest the quality of carbon fiber used in tennis racquets has fallen off dramatically, particularly as the Iraq war was escalating in the early 90's: much of the higher-quality material was required for the far more lucrative military and aerospace industries.

    This also occurred roughly after, or near the same time that currency fluctuations made construction in Europe and the UK (meaning, in-house at facilities at Kneissl, Rossignol, Völkl, Head, Snauwaert, Donnay, Adidas, Dunlop, Slazenger, and others) unsustainable, and production shifted to Asian contractors, who looked for cheaper sources of materials to minimize unit costs and maximize per-unit profits for them, while making the frames no more expensive for the brand itself.

    Also, since racquet design really hasn't had any actual advances since the widebody revolution of the late 1980's, marketing staff (instead of engineers) have been in control of the industry, and they have been telling us that lighter racquets are better and more fun to play with. Biomechanically, this may not be so. However, lighter racquets require less carbon fiber (hence should be cheaper to make), yet as they contain less material, transmit more shock and vibration...
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
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  31. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    I should qualify my comment in that the PT280/630 was made for about 5 or 6 years, roughly 1994-2000, in various locations and there are minor differences among the vintages. Some versions are a bit more flexy, some a bit heavier, etc. All are great rackets IMHO but like everything else a matter of opinion and taste. I happen to like all the versions.

    Head had different names for other rackets in Europe and the USA, for instance, the Pyramid Tour versus the Pyramid Tour 630. Same frame, slightly different name. I guess Head figures Americans can't handle the metric system. Hence, the 280 name in the USA and the 630 in Europe. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
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  32. souledge

    souledge Semi-Pro

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    Where can one find a 16x19 PT57A?
     
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  33. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    give the TF 315 Ltd 16x19 a try
     
    #33
  34. tandayu

    tandayu Professional

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    I posted pics of my Pt630/280 back in 2006-2007.
     
    #34
  35. HRB

    HRB Professional

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    Hey VSB...Just inquiring for your much appreciated opinion.

    I've yet to have the pleasure of procuring a PT 630...but I have a Radical Twin Tube MP "Zebra" and a i.prestige MP, both of which I love.

    So which one would play/feel closest to the PT 630, and what would be the biggest noticeable differences?

    Thanks in advance.
     
    #35
  36. ProRadTour

    ProRadTour Rookie

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    I'm sure VSB will summarise better but the TT radical is closer in feel to the PT630 than the iPrestige.

    For me, the PT630 is little more flexy than the TT, especially in the upper hoop. The i.Prestige is a lot firmer than both with good pocketing.

    Also, IMO the TT is more muted than the PT630.
     
    #36
  37. HRB

    HRB Professional

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    Thanks, I had a "gut instinct" that the TT will stay the proverbial "extension of my arm" that it is (love "muted"), but I'd like to try the PT some day.
     
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  38. ProRadTour

    ProRadTour Rookie

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    You have to complete the collection :)

    TT is my favorite.
     
    #38
  39. mrmike

    mrmike Rookie

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    Hey, what do you PT 280/630 fans think about starting a lobbying campaign to ask TW to work with Head on a re-issue ? Why not , it's been done for the PS85 and the Dunlop MW. I'd think they would have no problem selling them.
     
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  40. ProRadTour

    ProRadTour Rookie

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    I think it's a good idea. From what I have been told Head have to run a minimum of 10,000 frames to do a rerun otherwise they won't do it. If the average purchase was two frames, TW would need 5000 customers to buy two frames which doesn't seem hard to do.

    It's probably the ideal time for such a petition as by all accounts the sales of the Graphene Prestige's have been poor. The $1 deal to demo 4 Graphene sticks also seemed a bit of a desperate ploy to bump sales.

    I'd be curious to know how many runs of the PS 85 have occurred since its re-issue.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2014
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  41. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    I can play interchangeably with the Radical Tour TwinTube 630 and the Pro Tour 630. They are very close IMHO. The i.Prestige MP is crisper in feel than both.

    Its my understanding that TW would love a run of Pro Tour 630 but that it's Head thats the problem.
     
    #41
  42. fusion91

    fusion91 New User

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    It's been attempted before, more recently

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=437190

    I'd be down with getting a couple of frames, as long as Head uses the same original materials. I've read that the cost of the Twaron material used in these frames makes the manufacturing process quite expensive.
     
    #42
  43. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    First, you can buy tons of them on e Bay, some in great condition (not new though) for less what you would pay for the different feel, CHinese made, reissue...
    Second, I believe this idea was already entertained and did not happen...
     
    #43
  44. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    Present day re-issues almost always end up disappointing the purists. You can't go home again. As DR wrote above, you would be better of finding one in good used condition (of any vintage) on the auction site.

    As for the Twaron cost, yet another TT urban myth. Almost all materials will increase in price over time, twaron, kevlar and everything else. if you do a search for twaron price increases, you won't find much. It has to stay cost competitive with Dupont's Kevlar and other similar aramid fibers, Technora, Heracron, etc. These rackets had a small amount of Twaron in the mix (an aramid fiber like Kevlar used for its damping characteristics and tensile strength) This was mostly a marketing thing as with all the previous and present racket additives (a very long list). Haven't you noticed that the magic bullet changes almost every year? That is the marketeers at work; new and improved now featuring unobtainium fibers. Don't believe everything you read on this board. In this case, Twaron was the not-Kevlar which was being used by Wilson, Estusa, Dunlop, etc. Seems like a differentiation play more than anything else.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2014
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  45. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    I have to disagree with about Twaron and the amount used an how long Head used it for. The amount of Twaron in the racquet depended upon model and the matrix. HEAD used the Twaron in Skis and racquets from 1986 to 2000. That is a mighty long time. Also HEAD still manufactures the Pro Tour 630 for the guys on Tour calling it by the code PT57A. So if HEAD can get it right for a nuts like Murray and Haas I'm sure they can get it right for us.
     
    #45
  46. floydcouncil

    floydcouncil Semi-Pro

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    "Getting it right" is subjective as Head would see it. They currently offer a very nice line with their Graphene.

    IF Head decided to offer the PT280, it would be the same stock as the last Chinese models and you purists on these boards would complain yet again.
     
    #46
  47. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    First off, I have hit with the Chinese PT 280 and thought they played great. There was nothing wrong with them. I would not complain about that.
    Second, what do mean the same as last stock?
     
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  48. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    ^ I agree.The Chinese Pro Tours do play great. I know people who prefer the Chinese made 280's. I have known guys on the satellite tour that used Chinese Pro Tours and loved them.

    With regard to Twaron, yes Head used it for years (going back to the Electra? in the mid 1980's.) But, is Twaron better than Kevlar or other comparable para-aramids? Not really. More of the same. But, for marketing purposes, it is different than Kevlar and therefore "better"; a classic differentiation play,

    I have it on good authority (from someone who was head of racket design for a major manufacturer) that there is usually a unspecified amount of these hyped substances in the composite matrix and that they are included largely for marketing reasons. Having worked in marketing for many years, it is a familiar story to me. Could Head have used another para-aramid in the Pro Tours? Yes. Would we have noticed? No. Wilson used to claim some of their rackets (the Pro Staff 6.0/6.1) had about 20%? Kevlar. Can't recall ever seeing a Head racket that specified a percentage of Twaron.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2014
    #48
  49. HRB

    HRB Professional

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    Thanks. I can imagine the feel then, because on days I'm totally "on" I'l paint lines and place the ball wherever I want with the I.Prestige, but when I'm "off" and get a case of the "launchers" I find the flexy muted TT to allow me to swing as hard as I want and still stay in.
     
    #49
  50. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    Twaron started in 1986 for racquets with the Prestige Pro/TXP. I have seen material that gave a breakdown of matrix. Remember that the most carbon a racquet can really have is 60% the rest of the racquet is epoxy resin.
     
    #50

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