Head-to-Head: Oscar Wegner & John Yandell

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Mountain Ghost, Jul 11, 2012.

  1. Mountain Ghost

    Mountain Ghost Semi-Pro

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    As I mentioned in another thread ... I've heard a lot of intelligent stuff offered by the resident theory and knowledge experts, observists and creationists, but very little in the way of how they would actually correct the problems of unique players. I would really like to hear something tangibly REAL from them!

    How about a Head-to-Head between Oscar Wegner and John Yandell, with an analysis and a fix of the same student(s). I think everyone here would be interested in what they might say on an actual lesson court.

    The only way I can envision this working is if people would post a single short video of themselves, preferably just a link with no description or words, and the drafted parties (Oscar & John) agree on who they will critique and "help"!

    Of course there is no gaurantee that they will agree on this either, but the pipedream came up, and so I present it. Please, no help from the audience in the form of technical comments or distracting advice about the videos.

    In any case, the thread could serve as a great quick reference list for everyone here to easily access everyone else's stroke videos.

    MG
     
    #1
  2. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    At least you are trying to make a positive input that could be helpful to those who come to this site looking for instruction.
    Nice.
     
    #2
  3. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    That would be as likely as getting Lendl and Mac to do another winning edge video.
     
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  4. JohnYandell

    JohnYandell Hall of Fame

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    MG,

    Thought you wanted to calm things down...

    You provide the video of the player, is that it?
     
    #4
  5. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    Last edited: Jul 11, 2012
    #5
  6. JohnYandell

    JohnYandell Hall of Fame

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    Well I'd like to hear it's ok with tlm. If it is I am game...
     
    #6
  7. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Great idea!
     
    #7
  8. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    I should clarify the phrase 'plenty to work with'

    What I mean is TLM seems to be quite athletic and prepared to work on his game.

    I didn't mean it in a disparaging way.
     
    #8
  9. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    #9
  10. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    very nice clarification! :)
     
    #10
  11. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    This ^^
    .....
     
    #11
  12. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I think MG is trying to score some free tennis lessons.
     
    #12
  13. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    how does one win this thing?
     
    #13
  14. chico9166

    chico9166 Guest

    Wonder who Playnice will vote for?
     
    #14
  15. vil

    vil Semi-Pro

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    This is in the face, I would be surprised if they participate. Would be good though.
     
    #15
  16. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Don't want to speak for TLM, but this would likely not be fair, since I think
    TLM is already appreciative of Oscar's work and not such a fan of JY
    if I remember right.
    And of course we don't know if Oscar would have any interest.
     
    #16
  17. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    I appreciate that John, I don't care I don't think I could get a lot more abuse than what I already received. Plus it is obvious I could use a lot of help, but I will say that I have gotten some good information from John and his website.

    I have had disagreements with John in the past but he has also helped me with some good advise. I do want to remind people that I started this game at the age of 45, so maybe I am not a very good example.
     
    #17
  18. mightyrick

    mightyrick Hall of Fame

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    We need a prize, also. What does the winner get? Should this be like the movie "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels"?

    Winner leaves town?
     
    #18
  19. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    Hey TLM, I hope you didn't mind me putting your vids forward, I actually think you are a perfect example as your game is a 'work in progress'.
     
    #19
  20. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Not really but my game has been a work in progress for a while now, not sure how much progress I am actually making anymore. But believe it or not I have improved quite a bit from a few years ago, I compete in actual match play a lot better than what you might think after watching my bad footwork and weird strokes.
     
    #20
  21. tennishotdog

    tennishotdog Rookie

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    this is a great idea. guess i better get working on my video and post it quickly . it'd be an honor to have one's strokes analyzed and critiqued by two legends of tennis instruction and video analysis on TT.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2012
    #21
  22. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Ya there is some truth to what you are saying, but like I mentioned I do think that John has some great advise also. One thing I will say is that I had some pretty good arguments with John but he would still discuss tennis instruction with me without holding a grudge over prior disagreements.
     
    #22
  23. jackcrawford

    jackcrawford Professional

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    I have had my disagreements with both gentlemen as to how important their work has been to the current stroke production on the ATP tour, but I should point out that I have purchased DVD's from both of them in the past and their customer service is excellent. They are both passionate and interesting commentators on stroke production and I would enjoy following this thread if they both get involved.
     
    #23
  24. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    well, actually it is your matchplay vid that gave me hope. You do all the right things tactically and you stay in the point really well.

    If you can do that with the technique you were using at the time (that 1HBH!), then there is a fair bit of potential there...
     
    #24
  25. JohnYandell

    JohnYandell Hall of Fame

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    TLM,

    OK I am in. And I agree exactly about the character of our exchanges which have at times been "frank" but I think positive. I don't see it as unfair in any way.

    To make this beneficial for you I am going to take those clips and do some editing, similar to what you've seen on the site. I am going to do the forehand side, since I've shared some backhand thoughts with you.

    On a deadline for Tennisplayer so not sure of the time frame and I will need some input from some of my techno colleagues, but consider it in process.

    JY
     
    #25
  26. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    If Oscar expresses interest in participating someone should photoshop up a graphic depicting the head to head matchup. Mortal Kombat style. lol
     
    #26
  27. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    The problem with using TLM...

    The problem with using TLM for this exercise/experiment
    is that he has been a devout follower of Oscar's
    MTM for some time now.

    The person picked should be more of a "blank slate"
    that hasn't been using MTM at all or very little and
    also hasn't been coaches by JY.
    Even though he started tennis later in life,
    TLM has already been using MTM for awhile, so in a sense
    he is actually a good example of the "after" NOT
    the "before" of what Oscar's DVDs? can
    affect/shape one's technique. Still just a sample
    of one but still a good example since he has
    been a devout follower of MTM.
     
    #27
  28. tennishotdog

    tennishotdog Rookie

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    we need candidates who model their strokes after federer and has neither been influenced by OW nor JY. and there are a bunch of people here on TT who fits the bill :wink: :wink:
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2012
    #28
  29. syke

    syke Professional

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    I liking this.... It's a walk off...
     
    #29
  30. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    #30
  31. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    I can be a guinea pig !!! and I have only been influenced by Cheetah :mrgreen:
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2012
    #31
  32. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    I will volunteer, no influence from either coach. New videos from whatever angle is desired can be provided
     
    #32
  33. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    As I understand it, tlm is completely self taught. Just because he may have intended to use MTM doesn't mean that he's been very successful at implementing it. Clearly he hasn't. So, the question raised is whether tlm has a bias toward MTM and, if so, whether that bias will have an effect on the outcome of the coaching contest.
     
    #33
  34. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    That hurts, man.
     
    #34
  35. athleticstennis

    athleticstennis Rookie

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    #35
  36. Mountain Ghost

    Mountain Ghost Semi-Pro

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    Head-to-Head

    I've connected with Oscar and personally asked him to participate in the Head-to-Head. Oscar mentioned that if this was to transpire, he would like John to post his analysis first and for all of this to happen in the "Oscar at the Fair" thread so that it can remain in the context of what has transpired so far. I told him my thought is that each person's analysis should be sent to a third party, like ME, so that neither person can read the other's response before his is posted. I would then post them both simultaneously.

    I am quite neutral in my process, am more of an issue-specific advocate than a devoted supporter of any one individual and would be open to any way it could possibly work.

    In any case, I think it would be great to see it happen.

    MG
     
    #36
  37. Off The Wall

    Off The Wall Semi-Pro

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    Sounds good to me.
     
    #37
  38. JohnYandell

    JohnYandell Hall of Fame

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    MG,

    What a surprise. Oscar wants me to post first.

    Regardless of what he decides I said I would do it and I will. I'll send you the link and then you can decide about the when and wheres. I am going to do it in the format of a Tennisplayer article--should take a few more days.

    Honestly, I don't care about polls and votes to see who "wins" or whatever. That is one of my objections to the whole approach Oscar and his followers take--us versus them. Truth versus darkness or whatever. We're the greatest and dominate world tennis versus...well we know the rant.

    Your idea is to do something positive for players and that's why I am participating. After that the rest is up to whomever wants to say what.
     
    #38
  39. JohnYandell

    JohnYandell Hall of Fame

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    To All Other Volunteers,

    I am flattered and inspired by the requests to be test subjects! As I said I will do this for TLM first and I don't really have a concern about his alleged bias.

    As I mentioned above I'll do it as a Tennisplayer article. Since we do one of these every couple of months, I am open to volunteers for the future.
     
    #39
  40. Mountain Ghost

    Mountain Ghost Semi-Pro

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    Calling ALL Test Subjects

    Anyone with videos and wanting to be considered (or anyone knowing someone who they think SHOULD be considered) for this historic event, please post links to them NOW. Oscar and John will have to agree on the lucky player, and then it looks were are a GO!

    PROCESS:

    - Post links to videos
    - Oscar and John choose
    - A few days to prepare
    - Send the workups to me
    - I'll post them in the "Oscar at the Fair" thread

    I like it!

    MG
     
    #40
  41. Mountain Ghost

    Mountain Ghost Semi-Pro

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    Head-to-Head

    It seems what we need is an agreement on TLM being the "ONE"! But keep the videos coming, as there may be a need for more/alternates!

    MG
     
    #41
  42. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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    Please check your E-mail

    Please check your E-mail
     
    #42
  43. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    Hahaha sorry man. I did't mean to hurt your feelings, you deserve a honorary mention, but master Cheetah is DA MAN :lol:. Peace
     
    #43
  44. syke

    syke Professional

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    Awesome... To be honest, whatever the outcome is there will be no losers in this head to head.

    It will only serve as a platform to further reach out to the tennis community.

    Before this, I had absolutely no clue who Oscar or John are... Hopefully, with this head to head, more will come to know what those ideas are.
     
    #44
  45. djarvik

    djarvik Rookie

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    This sounds great!

    JY, will these articles be available to all or only paid customers of Tennisplayer?


    As for Oscar wanting for all this to stay in context with he original thread,
    a disclaimer can be posted in the OPs post with a link to that thread. Easy.

    The idea of Mountain Ghost posting both answers at the same time is great as well.
     
    #45
  46. MikeG_Tennis23

    MikeG_Tennis23 New User

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    Im kinda new around here, and don't quite get the argument.. Are these guys ACTUALLY pros? I feel like everyone on this site always is trying to give advice. If they are, this definitely seems like a cool idea.
     
    #46
  47. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    I'm pessimistic sorry, this will turn into another circus just like the other thread. Just the fact that one side wants to respond last says a great deal. However the blind won't see it. It is what it is.
     
    #47
  48. JohnYandell

    JohnYandell Hall of Fame

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    djar,

    No I'll send MG a free link.
     
    #48
  49. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    Im with you. Its like a side argument waiting to happen. I hope I am wrong as it really could bury the hatchet and move on but I just dont see that asking to go second thing really working out. That just sounds a little in poor taste to me.
     
    #49
  50. djarvik

    djarvik Rookie

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    Well JY agreed to respond first, but really, it doesn't matter who responds first
    as both responses will be blind and sent to OP. They will subsequently be posted
    at the same time.


    @ JY - thanks! Can't wait. :)
     
    #50

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