Head-to-Head: Oscar Wegner & John Yandell

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Mountain Ghost, Jul 11, 2012.

  1. Mountain Ghost

    Mountain Ghost Semi-Pro

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    Really? Ever seen Macci, Landsdorp or Bollettieri hit? Are you saying pros who only feed balls can't teach at the highest level?

    MG
     
  2. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Nonsense! What matters is a coach who: (1) understands proper technique and, (2) is able to communicate effectively to his students. Being a great player guarantees nothing. The world is full of former pros and other great hitters who don't understand what they are doing, and can't communicate it effectively if they do. Of course there are great players who are also great coaches. But, one does not necessarily lead to the other.
     
  3. mightyrick

    mightyrick Hall of Fame

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    He didn't say that. He said a coach who could hit was more advantageous. I would presume he was making that statement in the context of a one-on-one coaching scenario. In that situation, a coach really can't just be a mouthpiece. They ideally have to be a practitioner, as well.
     
  4. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    no, that could never happen.
     
  5. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Already has, didn't take long did it.
     
  6. JohnYandell

    JohnYandell Hall of Fame

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    5263:

    Thank you. I have never claimed to be a world class player. Not quite good enough to make the Yale top 6. Then quit for over 10 years. When I became a teaching pro had a couple of bursts where I was playing Norcal NTRP.

    Won 2 Norcal 4.5 tournaments more than 10 years apart, second when I was about 45. Both were 7 matches in one week. If you have been in that mix, you know it's not that easy. Was ranked in the 20s or so in Norcal 5.5. In those days there were huge draws and lots of ex college players in both divisions.

    Was ranked in the top 20 3 times in senior divisions.

    As for the hitting thing, it's a question of just producing the quality of ball a player needs at his development level. Basic work an Attack Ball machine with spin control is ideal.

    You can progress from there to all kinds of feeds and live ball and if you are dealing with college level players or higher find hitters that deliver what the players need.

    Coaching and hitting in my opinion are not required to be related.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2012
  7. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    I was being sarcastic in your favor. I know you played some pretty good ball, lol.
    I was saying you would not be at a disadvantage due to that.
    Well, least you got to tell us about your play though. Yes, I've played in that mix
    and played a fellow who had won several of the bay area 5.0 level championships.
     
  8. JohnYandell

    JohnYandell Hall of Fame

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    No worries and I as you know I do appreciate sarcasm. But a little disclosure never hurts.
     
  9. tennishotdog

    tennishotdog Rookie

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    so....is the head to head still on? heard in other thread oscar is going on vacation.

    just great. ended before it even starts. now where will i go for some drama around here. :p
     
  10. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    Bolleteri uses hitters - how can you evaluate the ability of a coach if you has a team of world class pros hitting with the student?

    Is it then the coach or the hitter? That's the problem.. Just hitting with world class players WILL make a player better.

    Anyway if you are going to claim the entire 'academy' is part of the coaching process - then of course no one beats Bolleteri - who can't play a lick and isn't really a master on the technical side either..

    Again one on one lesson - Oscar will win in a landslide - because he can play. Knowing how to play is a huge advantage. This is pretty obvious everywhere but tennis message boards i guess. Me? If I want to learn how to drive a racecar - I find a guy who can drive. I want to learn to play the guitar - I find a guy who can play music. I want to learn how to lift heavy weights - I find a guy who can lift heavy weights.

    Take advice from know it alls who can't do at your own risk..
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
  11. vinouspleasure

    vinouspleasure Rookie

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  12. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Oh great, now we're back on the old topic that apparently a coach isn't worth two licks if he cannot play.

    Let me know when it gets interesting....
     
  13. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    So you would prefer learning to box from
    Mike Tyson vs Cus D'Amato
     
  14. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    First thing Cus would do is get you a sparring partner - which is equivalent to a hitter. <g> At that point is Cus teaching you or the partner?

    It's the partner - don't be fooled. Nothing will make you learn faster then get smacked in the head when you screw up..
     
  15. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZxzJGgox_E
     
  16. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    You should like that since you are a heck of a player,....right? :)
     
  17. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    I'm just a player ;)
     
  18. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    We all know that "know it alls" are pretty useless, but the best coaches are
    usually ones who fell a little shy on big talent.
    Superstar talent is rarely a great coach, but a guy who was struggling to be
    great and didn't have it....they tend to learn a lot about their sport on that
    path.

    Like a guy who was just a step slow and small for football is often where the best
    coaches come from.
     
  19. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Not to judge, but Oscar's history is something like that. Maybe what he was
    missing was not talent, but good coaching, so that is what he wants to be
    sure others can get.
     
  20. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    That's some funny sh*t right there!
     
  21. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    no, that could never happen.
     
  22. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    so let me get this straight.......

    once cus finds a big prison thug to beat the hell out of me, i can get rid of cus and just get smacked around by this thug?

    and if i get hit often enough, i'll eventually be heavyweight champion?

    have you tested this theory of out on yourself?

    my bad. carry on...............
     
  23. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    I agree, sometimes being born a little shy in athletic genes
    can make you work harder and explore every possible way
    to improve.

    If you wanted to make it as a wide receiver in the NFL or
    see how much you can improve, you could learn a lot
    from someone like Steve Largent. He was slow, not very
    tall, and couldn't jump high but he was a student of the
    game and grew to understand it ways many receivers to
    This day still don't. At the same time he also maximized
    his physical potential and stayed healthy.

    The results speak for themself. He became one of
    The greatest receivers of all time in the NFL.

    I think some of the important qualities of a good coach are:
    Able to inspire students, is a student of the game themselves
    and always open to learning from others in order to continually
    Improve and evolve, has deep personal understanding and
    Awareness of the game & techniques, is able to work with the
    unique strengthens and idiosyncrasies that the student may
    have, which could actually one day become a new evolution
    in technique -- e.g. Fed's straight arm forehand.
     
  24. Playnice

    Playnice Guest

    Good job describing Oscar Wegner to a T!
     
  25. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Good job describing John Yandell to a T!
     
  26. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    And so it begins. OR has it already begun I dont know I have lost interest in the MTM threads they bore me a little these days. Its all Oscar did this and John did that. I miss the old days of hit with spinny boards and be a god.
     
  27. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Interesting, I didn't know you had worked on court with him.
     
  28. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Provocateur!
     
  29. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    But I thought that MTM hasn't changed since it's initial inception?
    Or is there a new update to the book coming soon, with corrections,
    addendums, etc. and incorporating the new things Oscar has learned
    in the last few decades?

    If a new book came out, it should probably include a correction to the
    previous claim that straight arm forehands have less power. Overall,
    though, I think straight arm is harder to learn and have good timing
    and it's probably better to teach a double bend forehand.

    He does seem like a guy that is passionate about the game and really
    wants his students to learn and improve. I can see it in his videos.
    He even sent me a free video on footwork for free! I'll have to watch it
    again. I like some of the things in it.
     
  30. connico

    connico Rookie

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    lol I want to get the spinny board just for ***** and giggles...
     
  31. tennishotdog

    tennishotdog Rookie

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    are there any books out there now that teaches the straightarm forehand? i havent read many but i've never ever seen it referenced or even mentioned.

    fed and nadal have been on the tour for more than 10 years now, you'd think that the many world class coaches and experts would have taken notice and come out with a new book that sheds some light on it by now.

    could oscar wegner or john yandell show us the light one of these days? i doubt it since they've been at it since...well.. forever lol :p
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2012
  32. Playnice

    Playnice Guest

    Have you used it yourself and/or with your students? It is an excellent tool and those who have actually utilized it understand its benefits.
     
  33. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Get 2 ironing boards and fold and put them back to back. Then you and your opponent can hit topspin at each other all day long. Get a nice padded cover for the ironing boards and your racquet will not get scratched.
     
  34. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    It was a good one that the MTM worshipers tried to push. I miss stuff like that. It was always good for a laugh when they came back with we use it so it works. Then hey so who has it produced gets asked and no answer is given. Than you get a video of pros saying this is what it produces yet not one pro has used it ever so ya its a great laugh.

    Come on MTM you use to be funny what happened.
     
  35. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Golf has by far the most gimmicks in terms of training tools. I'm waiting for someone to come out with something that is as embarrassing as the Shake Weight but for tennis, then I'll truly die laughing.
    (For those unfamiliar with Shake Weight, Youtube is your friend)
     
  36. dak95_00

    dak95_00 Professional

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    I wouldn't know what a Shake Weight was if it weren't for my brother. There is a guy in one of the commercials that everyone is convinced is my brother. Someone even bought him a Shake Weight so he could act it out more.

    Great stuff!
     
  37. Playnice

    Playnice Guest

    I repeat, "Have you used it yourself and/or with your students?"

    Those who utilize the topspin board know what a good tool it is by their own experience.

    If your (honest) answer is "no", then how can you rationally evalutate something about which you know nothing? There is a word for an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason: prejudice.
     
  38. Playnice

    Playnice Guest

    I repeat, "Have you used it yourself and/or with your students?"

    Those who utilize the topspin board know what a good tool it is by their own experience.

    If your (honest) answer is "no", then how can you rationally evalutate something about which you know nothing? There is a word for an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason: prejudice.
     
  39. Playnice

    Playnice Guest

    Have you used it yourself and/or with your students?"

    Those who utilize the shakeweight know what a good tool it is by their own experience.
     
  40. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    the shakeweight is awesome
     
  41. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    You should strongly consider getting one. I think it would help your Fh and likely
    Mav66 as well.
    Of course even the best tools are wasted in fools hands, so it would be what you
    make of it.
    You might be surprised.
     
  42. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    What do you want to hear about the straight arm?
    Haven't most of the biggest Fhs measured been Double bends?
    Gonzales, Murray, and Blake?
    Thanks for correcting if I'm off on this, as I don't keep up with these things.
    Fh max speed is way overrated IMO.
     
  43. JohnYandell

    JohnYandell Hall of Fame

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    tennis hd,

    Aside from my hobby posting on this board (second in my mind by far to fly fishing for wild trout) I've been writing about the arm positions for about 8 or 9 years on Tennisplayer, comparing Fed to Nadal to Agassi etc etc.

    Those terms are actually mine--double bend and straight arm, coming from the earlier Tennisplayer articles and even before.
     
  44. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    the terms 'double bend' and 'straight arm' are yours? that's pretty cool.

    i need to come up with some nomenclature of my own. maybe i can plant some seeds here and there to get people to say 'pat the cat' instead of 'pat the dog' since i have a cat.
     
  45. JohnYandell

    JohnYandell Hall of Fame

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    Loved my cat.
     
  46. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    I hear you on that.
     
  47. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    The shake racket. You might have just stumbled upon something there. It massages the ball with vibration action. Playnice would love it as it uses the MTM ideals of massaging balls.

    Sad thing is, it might work. Vibration training might actually be a good tool but nobody can look at thing and not think bad thoughts.
     
  48. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    LoL, my thoughts exactly.
     
  49. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    i like to say 'spank the monkey'

    (maybe we're not talking about the same thing)
     
  50. Playnice

    Playnice Guest

    Vibration? You don't even get the device. I guarantee you couldn't use the shakeweight for 5 minutes; when you can then you can make fun of it - you will have big enough biceps to have earned the right to mock. Until then, keep thinking those bad thoughts...
     

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