Heath Waters taught me...

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by DavaiMarat, Jun 19, 2013.

  1. DavaiMarat

    DavaiMarat Professional

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    ...the extended wrist forehand. I used to hit my forearm and racket at right angles but not it's more like 120 degrees or more.

    Honestly I don't get a lot from other instructional websites but his was top notch and free. Watched the video on the SSC Forehand a few times and voila. Suddenly I'm hitting my forehand 10mph faster with less effort.

    My forearm is sore but that has more to do with the small muscle groups getting use to the flex and me not taking my time.

    To be honest I'm not a fan of the way he goes 'mmmmmm kay' all the time but lol proof is in the pudding. You may not agree with him but you can tell he's a thinker and motivated something sorely missing in a lot of Toronto coachers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2013
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  2. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    You mean, à la Federer?
     
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  3. DavaiMarat

    DavaiMarat Professional

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    There's a real interesting video on the stretch shortening cycle on the forehand. It was something I've heard of but not really researched into.

    Some call it the waggle but it throws in the face of a lot of 'wrist laid back' dogma. A lot of people don't like it.

    Once you master it though it's amazing.

    I don't quite understand the hate on some people on this board have for Heath. What ever he's doing it's working for him and his students. From what I can tell his Academy is doing well.
     
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  4. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    Wait....do you have a video so I can see exactly what you are talking about?
     
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  5. DavaiMarat

    DavaiMarat Professional

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    Hmmmm I can't link it but if you go to virtualtennisacademy.com, register (it's free!) you'll get access to all their instructional articles and video instructions.

    There's one video called

    Forehand SSC 2009 Must See!

    It's pretty long but watch it a few times. Don't go out and hit against a ball machine for 3 hours like I did. The little muscles on the bottom of your forearm (flexor carpi ulnaris muscle) will feel like you ran them over with a Dodge RAM.

    Shadow swing this motion until you get do it with your eyes closed. Dropping the racquet face palm down, wrist in the neutral position and bow, open with the shoulder/hips. Your frame will do a whip like motion at from the slot (stretching the little muscles of the forearm). It will cause your wrist to go from neutral, to laid back to neutral. The more violent you open (while still relax) the more pronounced the action will be. The toughest thing is to stay relaxed.

    The contraction of the little muscles will give you that extra pop but be warned these muscles are small and delicate. Don't over do it or you'll be icing that night I swear.

    Once you get better you can use that action even without the hip involvement while you 'snap' winners DTL on the full stretch.

    Good luck and let me know how it goes.
     
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  6. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    Ok, got the account, logged on and saw the video.
    Yes that flexing makes sense.

    One thing that I find interesting is the straight arm part, I don't like that, I really like to create an angle at the elbow, that way my body carries the force over the ball better because I am more in front, like so:

    [​IMG]

    or this:

    [​IMG]

    As opposed to this:

    [​IMG]

    and of course this:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
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  7. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    and you think this is better because you added 10mph? :???:
     
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  8. ace_pace

    ace_pace Rookie

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    You should also have a look at the tennisspeed blog if you havent already for more info on forehands in general (start at forehands part 1 to avoid confusion). It goes really in depth.
     
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  9. 10isfreak

    10isfreak Semi-Pro

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    10 additional miles per hour on a ground stroke is enormous... if you could add that without making your shot less consistent it would surely make a lot of sense to do so.

    I watched the video in question. The coach puts the emphasis on wrist deviation to explain what players like Nadal or Federer are doing when they hit a forehand. It's much more convenient instruction-wise than what you find on tennisspeed, but the wrist movement he talks about is exactly the same. He just doesn't dig into huge details because, as he says in the video, people might got confused when he talked about more subtle movements that occurred during a forehand swing.
     
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  10. 10isfreak

    10isfreak Semi-Pro

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    There are more than one SSC involved in a professional forehand ground stroke. If we believe the tennisspeed blogger, one of them can occur in the shoulder area to help you propel the racket arm forward more powerfully and if you bend the elbow, you inhibit it.

    I don't know if the coach is aware of that, however. Regardless, if you watch his student, she's a pro player and she uses a bent arm... he doesn't disapprove of it, apparently. Plenty of wonderful players hit with a bent arm structure. It's perfectly fine to do so.

    Personally, every time I tried to not hit with a straight arm, the results were... limited. Besides, I feel like my take back is shorter and quicker with a straight arm. I never feel rushed with it. As I said, comfort matters.
     
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  11. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Well yes, but now you have added another important dimension to the equation.
    :)
     
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  12. 10isfreak

    10isfreak Semi-Pro

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    Added? I explicited the variable of consistency, but sice he didn't say how it affected his cosistecy and only talked about pace, we have no reason to believe he's not as consistent as he was (and vice versa).

    But, yeah. Power is overrated...
     
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  13. TennisTactician

    TennisTactician Banned

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    Video doesn't load.
     
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  14. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    I have plenty of reason to believe he is not as consistent as before unless his Fh speed was going from 40 to 50 or 45-55, for example.
    If he went from 75 to 85mph, thru add wrist action, I expect his consistency
    dropped to some extent.
     
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  15. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    I'd be willing to bet he's not as consistent as before if he's truly added 10mph.

    power is not overrated. why would you say that?
    Is spin overrated? How about technique or athleticism? Is touch overrated? Do you think variety is overrated?
     
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  16. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    Unless you're playing 5.5+ tennis, I'd say all of the above are overrated. Consistency is underrated.
     
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  17. DavaiMarat

    DavaiMarat Professional

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    Lol it's more consistent then it was since the relaxation of the arm and wrist allow for more easy spin.
    Y'all presume a little much. I'll try and make a video.

    Besides if it was worse then I probably would have posted ' Heath waters destroyed my forehand"
     
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  18. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I also hit my forehands "late".
    I use a very strong SW, almost full W and not too far from "hawaiin".
    I also take my forehand kinda to the side of my body, because I"m slow to move, and if I take it early like you're supposed to, I hit all spin, loop, and no penetration. Taken later, I seem to get more drive into the ball, and taken well away from my body.
    I don't know, I'm stoked I was able to hit some strong forehands today.
     
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  19. 10isfreak

    10isfreak Semi-Pro

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    He said that he changed how he swings at the ball. It might take some time, but it may enable him to hit consistently a better ball. Your statement relies on the assumption that he's not hitting better. Changing the form does enable you to hit better and it turns out it did so for him.

    Among amateurs, yes it is.

    Ball placement, where you make contact, what sort of hitting patterns you use can and pace are all ways to cut on the time your opponent enjoys to react to your strokes. If you're anything of a smart player, you know that you can hit easy winners by using the above properly. If you step up the pace, you have to do it at the right time; hitting big serves a purpose, but it's rarely a good idea to attempt tearing a hole in your opponent by hitting always harder.

    I said that power was overrated, not because it's useless or that there's a problem with power in itself; I meant that many people exaggerated the amount of power they actually need to play a tennis match at their level, that they exaggerated its usefulness in the context of their own playing.

    Look at how many complain about pushers winning matches and you'll have a hint that some people do not know how to be aggressive and play safe both at the same time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2013
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  20. 10isfreak

    10isfreak Semi-Pro

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_tjJcgTHEc

    Watch this video. Of course, they insist on what Federer's wrist does, even if we all know his body is what generates the energy necessary to propel his hand forward that fast, but it provides interesting stats.

    Besides, I tried Waters' technique and it did add pace to my forehand without affecting the consistency. It actually helped me hitting deeper balls when I needed to and I can also more easily get a good kick on my forehand with it.
     
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  21. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    He teaches a pretty good Fh, so if you were not doing it right, he can help.
     
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