Heavy Topspin With A Eastern Grip.

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by El Nino, Dec 1, 2012.

  1. El Nino

    El Nino Rookie

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    I was experimenting with a Eastern Grip recently and it felt awesome. I could rip forehands all day but when the ball came deep I struggled to generate a good amount of spin. How do you hit a eastern forehand with spin and depth without moonballing?
     
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  2. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    the regular swing path is very flat. this means arm swings around the torso flat. keeping the contact point up high between waist and shoulder is best. also the contact point needs to be out in front in an open stance. when contact is made the weight should be on the left foot for righty. kick back the right foot to control the racquet face angle. kick back more for more closed face for higher contact or faster rhs. try to avoid weight on right foot on contact.
    one important point is the wrist must move very fluid. you cannot hold wrist firm and have topspin for E fh. to control wrist the prep of racquet is very important. racquet up high for prep. thru the swing the racquet should drop and bounce quickly like that infamous 'snap'. this works best with a relaxed wrist and fast arm swing.

    since the swing path is more flat not lo to hi, positioning is very important and it should be behind the incoming ball with the anticipation of the contact point and swing path. prep the racquet up high and keep the wrist relaxed, swing fast and weight on the front foot in an open stance.

    try it and come again if you have more question.
     
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  3. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Pronate into a WW finish
     
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  4. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    by getting under the ball and hitting low to high.
     
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  5. rufus_smith

    rufus_smith Professional

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    Good advice. I love the eastern forehand grip but it is not optimal for heavy topspin on a deep high ball. Thankfully the newer strings like you have help generate topspin with any type of grip. If you want go for more of " drive" hard topspin forehand you to have a strong wrist so you can close the racquet face a bit and drive through the ball or you could make slight grip adjustment to a "semi-forehand" grip just for those deep high balls. I think Federer may do something like that. Personally I take the lazy route and often hit a deep mini-moonball, sort of a topsin lob, just half as high. Opponents hate it.
     
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  6. El Nino

    El Nino Rookie

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    Thanks for the advice. One more thing, Is it better to use a long loop (Gonzo like) or a short, compact loop? (Murray like)
     
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  7. El Nino

    El Nino Rookie

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    *Also who is the best pro to model an eastern topspin forehand?
     
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  8. Netspirit

    Netspirit Hall of Fame

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    Federer, obviously, unless you are as tall as del Potro.
     
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  9. El Nino

    El Nino Rookie

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    But Copying Federer is too mainstream:twisted:
     
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  10. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    Fed or dimitrov and slew of others but Fed has the best control with generous amount of topspin. his racquet control, rhs, and contact point control with fluid footwork are the best. if you can jump, Tsonga creates huge topspin as well.
     
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  11. El Nino

    El Nino Rookie

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    I'll experiment with Tsonga and Grigor. On the women's side, Mchale's forehand looks kinda good to copy too. But with Grigor's FH, he has a straight arm, would a double-bend also work with it too?
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
    #11
  12. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    I find double bend works well also as long as weight is consistently locked on the front foot. I think straight arm locks the wrist for even more consistency for super high pace but for rec level double bend should work fine. McHale uses classic SW fh so the swing is little different. stance is slightly more open and forward weight transfer is not as prominent. but contact point is very close so just keep those in mind. SW swing keeps the racquet not as high as E swing in the take back.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
    #12
  13. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    grigor uses double bent not straight arm. I said before his FH is more close to Haas than to Fed. his other strokes remind fed though.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox97-DQdm00
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uozFy1AXrfc
     
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  14. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    the take back should be your own thing. what ever feels right to you really, there is no better. i started thinking more of the bigger the backswing, more power. so where am i at on the court, and how much power do i need. that mind set has given me better results than thinking about loops and whatnot.
     
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  15. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I second poster 14.
    And practice until you find the right combination of topspin, ball speed, consistency, and placement.
     
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  16. sansaephanh

    sansaephanh Professional

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    I hit a eastern forehand. All i do swing through a steeper plane. Instead of trying to go through the ball, I get under it and really rip towards the sky.

    Granted it wont be as heavy as full western, but its okay cause the trade off is a huge penetrating forehand.
     
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  17. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    All my strokes are huge and penetrating when I play a lower level player or one on the skids.
    None of my strokes are huge and penetrating when I play a higher level player or a player who's playing his very best.
     
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  18. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    of course it's individual thing but there are elements that must be there. having racquet up high in relation to the hand is one of them in order for the racquet to bounce down and up for topspin. this is very different than SW cuz in SW a laid back wrist at the contact point by rotation of torso is ready to brush up the ball but for E the wrist bounce is necessary for heavy topspin. and high racquet makes this bounce natural. pros using E have variations in their take back but high racquet prep is a common feature for modern heavy topspin E fh.
     
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  19. TheCheese

    TheCheese Professional

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    All you have to do is pronate during the takeback so the racket face is more closed at contact.
     
    #19
  20. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    post 19 is one trick lots of players used in the old days of continental forehands... close the face with high elbow, totally wrong grip, but still hit decent topspin forehands...works on the backhand side too.
     
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  21. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    this ------ 10 char
     
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  22. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    :) and hitting it 12' longer than the baseline....
    Some mechanism is needed to land the ball into the court with an exxagerated low to high swing, and that mechanism is WW finish on the Eforehand grip, producing more topspin and LESS ball speed.
     
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  23. defrule

    defrule Professional

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    The way I think of my forehand is like a double pendulum.

    Imagine your hand as the first pendulum and the racket head as the second. Imagine you are ready for the swing, you drop your racket hand and let it gain speed, the racket would lag behind because of the loose wrist.

    At some point the racket really starts gaining speed and without using any force, it simply whips around.

    Think about Trebuchets as well.
     
    #23
  24. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    After you contact the ball, it doesn't matter where your racket goes.
    Federer has many different follow-throughs on his strokes. Nadal has many different followthroughs on his strokes.
    If you hit low to high and your racket is at the correct angle at impact you will get topspin and the ball will go where you want it to.
     
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  25. effortless

    effortless Rookie

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    - Swing from low to high
    - wrist snap
    - windshield wiper shot
    - angle your racquet more down to hit on a finer angle
     
    #25
  26. watungga

    watungga Semi-Pro

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    To the OP, you may want to check your elbow in doing what you think is awesome. You're not a professional which they have arsenals of training regimen in optimizing the arm functionaries to execute that kind of stroke.

    If you're doing the topspin wrong, your arm may not last long when you get old.
     
    #26
  27. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    advices telling lo to hi swing is fundamentally misguided for E fh. during the forward swing as the hand supinates the hand and racquet quickly dips down and bounces back up like something bouncing on a spring. starting low cannot provide a strong bounce. the upward motion of racquet from this bounce hits the ball and finishes in a small and quick WW before wrapping around torso.
     
    #27
  28. rten885

    rten885 New User

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    You definitely cant get much spin with an eastern grip. Trust me I have clocked a forehand 110mph and I have experimented with that grip you just can't do it because of the angle of the racket. I hit western and get a ton of spin on the ball. If you really want a lot of spin on your shots change your grip. Angle of the racket makes much greater of a difference than overall racket speed.
     
    #28
  29. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    idiot, so how does Fed get a lot of spin? btw his fh has a ton of topspin. you never clocked any 110mph fh. experimenting and drawing the right conclusion is not so simple. try again.
     
    #29
  30. rten885

    rten885 New User

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    I hit a serve 126mph my friend I am not a typical 3.0 player such as yourself. I teach tennis for a living lol You need to learn how to play tennis and get past the 3.0 barrier before you can talk. Federer uses 3 different forehand grips but w.e. I am talking about extreme spin. Federer does not hit with extreme spin compared to some other pros.
     
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  31. rten885

    rten885 New User

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    A lot of people I teach who are 4.0s think flat balls have a lot of spin ..so everyone has their own prespective.
     
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  32. TheCheese

    TheCheese Professional

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    Federer averages the 2nd highest RPMs on tour. I don't think you can argue that the eastern forehand can't generate as much spin. Have you ever considered the fact that because you haven't spent years playing with an eastern that you're simply not as good with it or don't have the technique?
     
    #32
  33. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    A few years ago John Yandell measured the spin generate by several pros and Fed. was #2, surpassed only by Nadal. Based on that data, he's hitting with a lot of spin, even relative to other pros. If I've missed stated John's data please correct me.

    Fed might alter his grip some (or not - I don't know), but all the data I've seen say it's always somewhere around an E. to strong E. When I look at pictures of his grip that's what I see.

    Based on the above it's most definitely possible to hit with a lot of topspin with an Eastern or strong Eastern grip. You may not be able to do it, but it can be done.

    I agree with TheCheese.
     
    #33
  34. Rogael Naderer

    Rogael Naderer Semi-Pro

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    This most definitely.

    Generally WW finish is going to be the best method but only if it is natural and smooth to you, I occasionally will use this follow trhough but it is never forced.

    A relaxed wrist, powefrul coil and excellent timing will all help to achieve high racquet head speed which is chief among all factors when trying to achieve RPMs.
     
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