Help: How do you serve wide on Deuce Court?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by bhallic24, Jan 2, 2012.

  1. bhallic24

    bhallic24 Guest

    I have a decent serve. So so on second serve. But I can usually aim it down the T and out wide on the ad side, but I can not for the life of me hit a even decent out wide serve on the deuce side.



    I've tried throwing the ball further right (usually just turns into a slice right into the opponent's wheelhouse (ie their forehand)). HItting with less pace and more slice (gets crushed by the opponent). Trying to hit hard and aim for the angle out wide (usually goes into the net). standing further to the right before serving (doesn't work, and the opponent knows to expect something out wide and they just crush it with their forehand).

    I'm at a loss. I've watched pros do it like its nothing and I can't even hit it 1 out of 10 tries. HELP!
     
    #1
  2. SoBad

    SoBad Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,734
    Location:
    shiran
    Sounds like a psychological issue - your second serve is weak wherever you place it and you just need to be prepared to start second serve points on the defensive.
     
    #2
  3. wings56

    wings56 Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    Messages:
    844
    cant really say much without seeing a video. the toss shouldnt matter too much. my best serve is a slice that i throw over my left shoulder (i'm a righty) that looks like its going to be a kick but i bring the racquet around the right side of the ball for a nasty slice out wide. its all about the control of the racquet around the ball. just need to practice
     
    #3
  4. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,132
    Location:
    tennis courts
    yea first we need a video. 2nd....its questions like this that make me laugh. that's like asking, i can turn left, but i can't turn right. how do i turn right?
     
    #4
  5. NE1for10is?

    NE1for10is? Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    475
    It's over the higher part of the net, so take a little of the pace off of it. You can add more pace to it later when you get the hang of it.
     
    #5
  6. fruitytennis1

    fruitytennis1 Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,092
    Location:
    I wish i knew
    Practice this...
    Take a 2 steps farther to the right
    Make the toss so it is to the right of you and if you leave it alone it will bounce on the baseline
    Hit a topslice serve
     
    #6
  7. wings56

    wings56 Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    Messages:
    844
    +1 epic lulz.
     
    #7
  8. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,132
    Location:
    tennis courts
    yea seriously....lol i mean if you can serve, you can serve.
     
    #8
  9. Spring Pools

    Spring Pools New User

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    91
    Can you slice?
     
    #9
  10. 86golf

    86golf Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    Messages:
    607
    Location:
    Carolinas
    Are you opening your shoulders up too soon? This is common as people want to turn to the left too soon, trying to hit to the left (righty slice). Are you hitting the outside of the ball while still swinging up?
    Without seeing a video, it is hard to tell what is going on.

    As a stop gap, you can just rotate your body and aim your kicker short and wide in the deuce court. I love this serve as a change up. With the topspin you can hit it very short in the court.
     
    #10
  11. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    9,277
    I like to turn my back to the target as if I was going to hit to the right side of the box on every serve, first and second. That way, my opponent doesn't know when I'm going to the left side until I hit the ball. When I want to hit to the left side of the box, I rotate my upper body back toward the target sooner and further than I would if I were hitting to the right side.

    Hope that helps.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012
    #11
  12. martini1

    martini1 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2008
    Messages:
    3,173
    You are facing too much to the right. Try the extreme - start almost parallel to the baseline, hit on the outside of the ball when u serve. I guarantee a lot of them will go left (wide) on the duece court. Swipe, don't hit thru. Racket facing left.
     
    #12
  13. tsongaali

    tsongaali Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2008
    Messages:
    796
    I know exactly what you mean. Same thing for me too, very good flat, decent kick, but shi tty slice. I think it all comes down to the timing of pronation, where in the flat you are fully pronated upon contact with the ball, but on slice you're about halfway. But I could be wrong.

    And no zapvor, it isn't that simple. From what i've seen of you, your in no position to be giving advice on this forum lol
     
    #13
  14. thug the bunny

    thug the bunny Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    813
    Location:
    Out of the comfort zone
    Wait, I don't want to add the the confusion, but when I serve wide to the duece side, I toss a little to the left, and then try to hit the outside of the ball. The main thing though, is I eyeball that wide corner of the service box before the toss, and just make it go there. For a righty it should be very natural. Sorry if that's too simple.
     
    #14
  15. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,132
    Location:
    tennis courts
    and why is it not that simple??? if you know how to serve you know how to serve. its that simple. why dont you post some of you up here to prove you are in a position to be giving advice. i will be happy to post my serves going out wide if everyone wants to see it
     
    #15
  16. scotus

    scotus Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    7,612
    If having trouble, aim for the doubles alley.
     
    #16
  17. rufusbgood

    rufusbgood Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    700

    Even if it is that simple, saying "just do it" is not instructive. I'm sure Elena Dementieva wanted very much to be able to serve to a righty's backhand. Even with a ton of money at her disposal and a team of professionals guiding her, she spent most of her career hitting every serve to her opponents forehand. So, "just do it" isn't an answer.

    And yes, you should post a video of you hitting out wide and more importantly you should post a video of you hitting out wide and explaining what it is you are doing differently to make it happen. I am somehow doubting you would be able to do so. Because I don't really think you have that awareness. Doesn't make you a bad player, but it makes you a lousy instructor.
     
    #17
  18. sandiegoman

    sandiegoman Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2010
    Messages:
    187
    Try focusing on the lower right side of the ball (like 4 or 5 o'clock)
     
    #18
  19. rufusbgood

    rufusbgood Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    700
    Seems to me (and I'm no instructor, nor have I tested this) that thinking about this in a geographical sense might be useful. If you imagine the ball as a miniaturized planet earth with the North Pole faced directly up and the South Pole directly facing the ground, you achieve the slicing action by brushing from West to East along the equator. Since the ball travels in the direction the strings are facing, if you are observing Earth so that South America is on the left and Africa is on the right you can pretty much bet that striking the ball in Columbia is going to be a fail. You need to be whacking the Congo. And if that doesn't work move over to Indonesia.

    Over the last few years, I have been endeavoring to increase the height of my toss and more importantly the height of my tossing hand. FWIW, my slice out wide was far more reliable back in the days when my toss was much lower.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2012
    #19
  20. mathieu

    mathieu Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    351
    well we have two people now who want to see Zapvor's uber wide serve on the duece side. I also want to see this. Anyone else?
     
    #20
  21. thug the bunny

    thug the bunny Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    813
    Location:
    Out of the comfort zone
    Some people are 'mechanics' oriented, and some are 'feel' oriented. For those who are feel players, undue mechanical thoughts actually detract from the intended shot for some areas. For me, directional control is one of those areas. If I thought of the mechanics involved with hitting a ball a little more to the right or to the left, I would sieze.

    To the OP, I would try practising by getting more target focused. I know that in golf if you don't have a very specific target in mind, your brain is not locked on, resulting in a vague and unconfident swing. If you can hit a decent serve down the T or to the middle of the duece box, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to move your target over wide a few feet. Put a large target like a tennis bag or jacket down on the wide corner of the box, and start practising serves hitting that target. Try flat and slice. It really could be that easy!
     
    #21
  22. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,132
    Location:
    tennis courts
    lol ok i will post a video up. if you watch my other youtubes already posted you can ALREADY see a couple of me hitting out wide. now i dont know for elena's case.

    this is all i am saying-serving is a lot like throwing. if you cant throw, then thats an issue. learn to do it. but once you can throw, you can then learn how to serve. try this: have 2 people stand at different angles from say 20ft away. now throw tennis balls at the 2 people. if you can manage that, you can serve. its a mental thing i guess. some people just cant wrap their head around it once a racket is in the hand.

    i didnt say i was a good instructor. i merely said if the OP can serve, then he can serve anywehre. so my argument is he doesnt know how to serve. not he doesnt know how to serve wide. oh and i do have that awareness.

    again, refer to my previous post: if you can turn left, how can you ask how to turn right???? it doesnt make sense does it

    edit: why dont you post up one of you too. as soon as you do i will do one. deal?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2012
    #22
  23. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,132
    Location:
    tennis courts
    exactly. some people are more just able to 'feel' it, and thus do it. you cant even teach that really.
     
    #23
  24. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,132
    Location:
    tennis courts
    lol have you seen my youtubes already up? its on there somewhere. i try to mix it up every now and then with 1 down the T.
     
    #24
  25. luishcorreia

    luishcorreia Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,381
    Location:
    Lisbon - Portugal
    #25
  26. tsongaali

    tsongaali Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2008
    Messages:
    796
    I've seen your old vids, you cheer like crazy when you hit an ace because all your serves are literally 50 mph max. What I am asking is for you to post a vid of a wide serve with a LOT of spin at at least 100 mph. Otherwise, anyone can hit 40 mph out wide serves.
     
    #26
  27. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,132
    Location:
    tennis courts

    LOL PLEASE show me where i cheer like crazy when i hit an ace. i dare you. post it for all to see here. go ahead. post the link. i dare you LOL

    2nd, why havent you posted your video yet???? better yet just post one of your video serving inside the box and not double faulting, 30mph max. as soon as you do that i will post a new video up. deal???


    *note to rest of board-he will never do it and come up with some lame excuse.*

    edit-also apparently not everyone because the OP says he cant serve out wide, and you said you cant either LOL
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2012
    #27
  28. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,132
    Location:
    tennis courts
    this was from like almost a week ago too.....way to just ignore my post lol
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2012
    #28
  29. charliefedererer

    charliefedererer Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2009
    Messages:
    5,639
    The direction you "cartwheel" with your shoulders determines your serve direction.
    Tennis Lesson: Serve Tips: Lead with the Hip and cartwheel into your serve http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgeYmEScfgQ
    Preventing Rotator Cuff Injury by dropping your front shoulder and cartwheeling into the serve like the pros http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTRvxaBMh8s
    The Serve Doctor calls cartwheeling the "see saw motion" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU2bFqdEnlQ&feature=BF&list=PLD4C2A7ED17FABE64&index=26


    [​IMG]

    In pic 4 above, Fed has a very steep shoulder angle in his trophy pose - the front shoulder is very high and the back shoulder is very low. Also in this pic, as viewed from the side, his body is in the shape of a "bow"

    When he swings, he reverses the shoulders so the back shoulder ends up straight up and the front shoulder ends up straight down by contact in pic 8. He also has "reversed the bow" shape whith his body.

    That throwing the side of your body forward and reversing the vertical orientation of your shoulders is known as "cartwheeling."

    The direction you cartwheel into determines where the serve will go.

    So to serve wide into the deuce court, carthwheel slightly more to the right.

    Go to the Essential Tennis video "Pronating on Wide and Middle Serves" and see a great demonstration of this by Ian. (Although it seems to concentrate on pronating, in fact a main point is how to hit your serves in the direction you want. Ian uses the term "the direction you transfer your body weight" instead of the term "cartwheel", but you'll get the idea. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9aQuJyccak


    This approach will work with flat, slice or kick serves to control where your serve will go.

    You'll have to practice cartwheeling in the direction you want the serve to go with flat, slice and kick serves to really get it down for all three.

    Many toss the ball slightly to the right to add more slice to their first serve to swing the ball out wider than their usual flat serve.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012
    #29
  30. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,132
    Location:
    tennis courts
    still no reponse. i wonder why
     
    #30
  31. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    680
    If i could serve like i can throw, i'd have a top serve. I can throw accurately and far, with various curves :p
    My serves is one of the best at our club, but i struggle with consistently hitting flat serves (not direction, but net clearance and depth issues).
    Also, from the deuce side, i cannot hit a flatish serve to the forehand side of my opponent. I can only kick it, or now and then ace using slice. I would like to hit through the ball more for pace but still have enough spin to get the ball in. Is topside spin the answer?

    I once saw this kid consistently serving bombers to the wide side...it really looked like he hit through the ball and not around it with spin.

    I guess on the first flatter serves, this is my problem also with either wideouts of either the duece or advantage side. I can get it in with spin, but spin eliminates speed due to friction.
     
    #31
  32. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,132
    Location:
    tennis courts
    hmm...i am not sure. why dont you post a video and we can see what you are and are not doing
     
    #32
  33. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    680
    my internet connection is often worse than dialup....so much so, that it tries to refresh when i update a status on facebook hehe

    I've never uploaded on youtube....how large do the files tend to be when you guys upload?
     
    #33
  34. tsongaali

    tsongaali Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2008
    Messages:
    796
    #34
  35. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,132
    Location:
    tennis courts
    haha. wow i missed that. i hit a good one down the line. so whats your point here?? i did a fist pump? yea i guess that constitues as "you cheer like crazy when you hit an ace "....who else agrees with that lol lets take a poll.

    oh yea...still no video from you either. what happened to that huh??? all we want is 25mph, in the box. you can put it anywhere in the box. but i guess you said you cant serve it wide. so give us one down the T then. thanks.

    *note to rest of board*he will ignore this post and never post the video.
     
    #35
  36. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,132
    Location:
    tennis courts
    lol you are just like the rest of them....nevermind man
     
    #36
  37. tsongaali

    tsongaali Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2008
    Messages:
    796
    Am i obligated to go out of my way to show you some video of my serving? I already know your serves are at the 3.0 level, im just saying with serves like those, no one will listen to you. It's pouring over here in Oregon everyday and I don't have access to an indoor club. If you want proof just ask the mod diredesire. I don't play until late spring once its finally started to stop raining.

    Its funny how you have such a huge e-penis with serves like those lol.
     
    #37
  38. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,321
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    For me, easiest way to locate my serves is to start all serves dead up the middle, in practice, to start matches.
    Then, when that doesn't work, I twist more into the ball and followthru more across my body to go wide normal side, and hold my body back, and followthru in the direction of the wide target on the abnormal side.
    When you know where your ball normally goes, you can make it move riight or left depending on your swing and followthru.
     
    #38
  39. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,132
    Location:
    tennis courts
    yep...coming from the guy who says he cant serve wide either. hahaha.

    *note to rest of board* didnt i call it way before that he would never post a video and come up with a lame excuse. here it is. thanks for playing.
     
    #39
  40. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    680
    sigh man...sigh...

    I guess these days no ones word is good enough anymore....

    I will see what i can do
     
    #40
  41. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,132
    Location:
    tennis courts
    funny avatar dude

    well its 2012. everyones got a camera on their phone and a digital camera. so theres no excuse anymore. unless you are 85 and still use a landline no cell phone and never seen a digital camera....
     
    #41
  42. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,164
    Location:
    Caught in No Man's Land
    zapvor, the problem with your post is that you came off incredibly smug. Your post did nothing to help with the topic and instead belittled the OP's dilemma.
     
    #42
  43. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,132
    Location:
    tennis courts
    i wasnt being smug i just found it to be funny.
     
    #43
  44. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,321
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Zapvor....
    Yes, it's 2012 now.
    No, I don't own a cell phone, a computer, or any of the digital gadgets, including any kind of camera.
    If even ONE person doesn't have a cell/camera, then it's POSSIBLE there are also other's who don't own that newfangdangled stuff.
     
    #44
  45. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,132
    Location:
    tennis courts
    lee stay out of the thread
     
    #45
  46. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,321
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Why?
    Are you such a godly creature that you cannot associate with the lower species? Are your comments and opinions so vast and all encompassing that you don't need to hear any comments that would counter your thoughts?
    What gives, Zapvor? Why aren't we commenting on serving WIDE to the duece court?
     
    #46
  47. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    680
    Thanks...i drew it :p

    We have broadband, but the telephone company keeps telling us its the service provider, and the service provider keeps telling us its the telephone company.

    Believe me...i want footage of myself asap...i want my stuff to be analyzed.

    Can you answer my previous question of how large these video files tend to be? I want to get an idea if i will need to ad compression and whatnot.
     
    #47
  48. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,132
    Location:
    tennis courts
    oh ok

    file size isnt a big issue. me and shcmad filmed our matches in HD and they are like 700mb easy but he uploaded to youtube without a hitch. i myself upload from my phone and its not bad at all. 15min max
     
    #48
  49. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    680
    I basically just want to have about 2-3mins of serving and about 1-2mins of groundstrokes....
     
    #49
  50. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Messages:
    6,834
    Location:
    New York City
    I thought this thread was about bhallic's request for slice serve advice. Why is it now about zapvor's excessively long Hanes t-shirt and basketball shorts?

    Take it somewhere else ladies.
     
    #50

Share This Page