Help Me with my volleys!!! (Video)

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Homey, Sep 23, 2008.

  1. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Sorry BB, I wasn't posting looking for advice, I was just talking to Eik, and saying how much better the angle of his video was compared to mine for looking at what is going on with the volleys.

    I didn't realize that wasn't clear.

    J
     
    #51
  2. Nellie

    Nellie Hall of Fame

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    At the PTR meeting last week in Hilton Head, one of the coaching seminars discussed that it was noticably faster to switch to a eastern backhand grip for wide forehand volleys / eastern forehand grip for wide backhand volleys, but that you needed to still move foreward into the shot.
     
    #52
  3. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    BBill, I'll give you those points...we should all START to volley with continental, and will soon revert to our own individual form of continental.
    I did say the videos show a form of continental closer to the forehand side....ie...longer swing on backhand volley, short punch on forehand volley.
    If the grip is perfectly balanced, the stroke would be too.
    And if someone volleyed with conti towards backhand on FOREHAND volleys, then a longer, more forceful stroke with more body forward and more shoulder turn is needed. The opposite of most good player's volley grip and style.
    Nellie... certainly I wasn't there. The notion of a grip change from Efore to Eback on different volleys just doesn't make sense. I don't THINK any good player does that. Not even extreme W grippers. They use the same side of the racket to avoid grip changes. And to switch from Eback to Efore for a forehand volley doesn't make sense, as the time you have should be spent with turning, moving forwards, getting the feet into position.
    And if the puffball was coming slow enough for someone to grip change, then they should just up the competition level.
     
    #53
  4. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Oh, I dont read your posts. I just saw that one with a link. When I saw the volleys or half-volleys, I was a bit surprised given your "rating" they looked that bad.

    Sorry. :)
     
    #54
  5. supertrex

    supertrex Semi-Pro

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    Do you relax your grip loose on volley for short angle?

    And for deep volley do we still have to relax our grip and make our forward movement push/punch the ball deep in the court?

    Just wondering coz I think ive been doing a bad volley all this time. My grip for Deep volley down the line is firm. then I try to relax on the short angles.
     
    #55
  6. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I like to relax on the takeback, then SLIGHTLY firm up to make the strong triangle from racket thru wrist thru upper arm.
    Consistent is good. Drop volleys relax hands and fingers.
     
    #56
  7. EikelBeiter

    EikelBeiter Professional

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    I love those other courts on your other videos. What are they ... indoor green clay? Or is that canada ten ? Never played on clay indoors, I imagine it is a bit faster but with nice top spin options ?
     
    #57
  8. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Yea it is Har-Tru, synthetic green clay it is faster than red clay, and when properly maintained slower than hard courts.

    But the courts at those two clubs are so poorly maintained, that you get all manner of bizzare bounces, (or non bounces where the ball just hits the ground and rolls) and if they are not sufficiently watered then they become stupidly fast. Or if the top coat is not spread out evenly, you get spots that play like clay, and spots with no top coat, and it is just the hard packed down stuff, so the ball comes off much quicker than you would expect.

    So at a nice club where it is well maintained, it is a pleasure to play on, but when poorly maintained, it makes for some ugly tennis (not that I need any help in that reguard). But either way, it is better than watching on TV, so we play on it :)

    J
     
    #58
  9. Slicendicer

    Slicendicer Guest

    It's near impossible to "teach" a volley with written word, but here goes...

    On both FH and BH you need to lay the racquet back and let your upper torso "do the work". You're "chopping" the racquet at the ball and down towards the court, I assume to create backspin. With a racquet face angled less than 45 degrees to the court, slice the racquet under the ball by using the pace of the ball... don't swing. After that, able to "cup" the ball control the volley... then try to add some punch by rotating the shoulders and torso.
     
    #59
  10. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    J011y, couldn't you take it easy on your opponent?
     
    #60
  11. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    That's a load of bunk. My backhand volley is by far the stronger side and I use a very compact swing with no "free swinging slice" whatsoever. And FYI, when most pros have time to set up, their grips actually favor the eastern BACKHAND grip.
     
    #61
  12. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Pretty solid stuff here. I'd like to see a little less of a backswing though. Take the racquet back with the coiling of the body, rather than with your arm. Imagine that there's an invisible wall at around the back of your head or so. The racquet head should not travel past it.

    Matt
     
    #62
  13. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    DJ, once again, we are not talking about YOU. YOU are a tennis instructor, and as such, teach basic repeatable strokes so your students learn the game the "correct" way.
    Why don't you look at videos of pro volleyers? The Fed putaway volley vid is just a hundred or so threads before today.
    EVERY forehand putaway volley is short punched body forwards.
    EVERY backhand putaway volley is much longer stroke, much more body movement forwards.
    Now look at Cash, Rafter, Edberg, Sampras, Nastase, Ashe, or any PRO volleyer, not YOU.
     
    #63
  14. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    DJ, I KNOW you mean well, as does BBill and all the other tennis coaches and instructors on this BB.
    But you guys focus on basic fundamentals and theory, NOT what the current professional players are doing!
    And you guys have NOT produced an American professional worth the top 20 since Roddick and Blake, like 9 years ago!
    What you teach is great for 2nd year tennis grandmas and old farts, but it has nothing to do with the way PROFESSIONAL tennis is played at currently.
    I was never coached by any real coach or instructor.
    The guys who gave me advice were top 30 Mens' Pros and lots of A-Open Mens players. Most had some abberations in their games, knew it, and still did it.
    Theory works on a piece of paper. In real life, you have to look at the piece of paper as only the blueprint, and adjust as you go.
     
    #64
  15. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    So your argument is that we should teach things that the highest level players in the world utilize over solid fundamentals? Pros also take swinging volleys from no mans land, but for the typical 3.5 it's not recommended by 4 out of 5 dentists.
     
    #65
  16. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Exactly..
    You should teach exactly as you teach now.
    But when someone chimes in the PRO's do it differently, you should LOOK at what the pros do and decide if the "someone" is worth argueing over, or should you acknowledge that there MIGHT be different strokes for different folkes. I"ve been reading HarryPotter, hence the folkes.
    I did not say anyone should do exactly what the pros do.
    I said the pros do it "this" way.
    Two very different sentences, cannotations, meanings, whatevers.
     
    #66
  17. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    #67
  18. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    You say pros, yet all you list are some of the best serve and volleyers to ever play the game! Should I tell the average player "sure, you can do it differently, as long as you're as talented and have practiced as hard as Sampras".
     
    #68
  19. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Matt, you're teaching junior tennis?
     
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  20. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    DJ, I gotta be honest here... I saw half the vid.
    ARE YOU BLIND? Not being mean, sarcastic, or anything, but are you blind?
    Sampras's backhand volley involves about a 4' long stroke.
    Sampras's forehand volley usually less than 3', sometimes shorter.
    Total differnce! Between a 4' backhand stroke and a 3' forehand volley is like 25% or so. I'm bad at math.
    You gotta be able to see the difference in the length of stroke between his fore and back volleys.
    Damn the torpedoes.... FULL SPEED AHEAD !!

    Hey, but I respect that you are truly trying to help OP here, while I'm off ranting and raving over myself.
     
    #70
  21. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    I do not. I'm taking classes at www.virtualtennisacademy.com in professional coaching though. Check out the free samples when you get some time. They have one on the one handed backhand that you'd probably like.

    LeeD, you are the one who is blind. First of all, I said in that post that he takes a bigger swing when you has time to set up. Second, there were plenty of compact backhand volleys in that clip.
     
    #71
  22. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    "compact" backhand volleys use up 4' of airspace.
    "forehand volleys never use nearly that much, sometimes less than 1/2 dat.
    Look at all the backhand volleys. Look at all the forehand volleys. You decide. This is a test of your future tennis teaching and coaching career !!
     
    #72
  23. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    You state these things as facts, and then tell others that they're blind? So I should tell all my students that they should take at least a 4 foot backswing.

    Is that your final answer?

    [​IMG]
     
    #73
  24. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    DJ, after looking at the vid YOU posted, can you honestly say the backhand volley stroke is just as short as the forehand volley stroke?
    Now be realitic here, not biased and closeminded.
    Did you read about the charge of the lightbrigade? Enemies to the left of me, enemies to the right of me. Enemies dead ahead, but CHARGE anyway!
     
    #74
  25. Slicendicer

    Slicendicer Guest

    Just to settle this... there is no swing on the volley.

    Sampras redirects the ball with spin... no "swing". At pro level the pace of the ball will be sufficient.

    If you have time and the ball is optimal, then you can "takeback" and swing... but that isn't really a volley, per se.

    The thing to notice is that Sampras starts the volley with racquet in front and finishes with racquet in front. Even when Sampras swings thru the volley, the racquet is on the same side of the body, out in front.
     
    #75
  26. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    A 4 foot backswing on backhand volleys? Who the hell does a swinging backhand volley? I hate swinging volleys!
     
    #76
  27. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    I suspect what LeeD is missing is HOW the racquet is being taken back. Sampras takes the racquet back with the coiling of his body, yet his massive wingspan makes it seem as though he takes a big back-swing.

    Only Gasquet is allowed to take a full swinging backhand volley. :)
     
    #77
  28. EikelBeiter

    EikelBeiter Professional

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    I know what you mean when you talk about bizzare bounces. A few years ago our club decided to change 4 of our 9 clay courts to french court, which is a substitute for clay which should have the same characteristics only you can play on it in the winter as well, which is not possible on clay. Anyways although they are maintained properply they are utter crap, bad bounces 30% of the time, you hardly can see any marks and you can't get any grip on it, when you're not in control of the point you keep sliding and balancing.

    We also have some artificial grass courts around here and some smash courts here and there. Never seen a har-tru court though, must be something American. Seems like a joy to play on though
     
    #78
  29. EikelBeiter

    EikelBeiter Professional

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    Thanks, yeah i'm working on shortening the backswing, in contradiction of what LeeD is advocating.
     
    #79
  30. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    The clay courts at Hempstead Lake Park have so much gravel on them, they're unslideable. Do you know those courts, J011y?
     
    #80
  31. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I have heard that they are in tough shape, but never played on them.

    J
     
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  32. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Well it adds another goal to your tennis match.

    1. Win the match

    2. Don't fall on your ass in the process.

    J
     
    #82
  33. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Backhand swing volley is my favorite shot :)

    Don't have any on video. I will try to make a point of hitting a few next session.

    Here is a FH one though.

    http://vimeo.com/3343160

    Edit: Make sure you have the sound up ;)

    J
     
    #83
  34. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    But you have a two handed backhand, Jo11y. You're already a lost cause as it is.
     
    #84
  35. Julieta

    Julieta Guest

    I think how to hit volleys is misunderstood by many coaches and players. This is another reason there are few net rushers in the game today. I can think of only a few coaches I would trust to develop a junior in this game style.
     
    #85
  36. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Does Jolly really have a two handed volley?
    Jolly, I used one up to my 4th year tennis, playing pro qualifiers and losing in 4-5 rounds. I was switching since year 3, but employed what I knew worked (the two handed backhand volley).
    JimmyConnors had one of the better 2 hander back volleys.
    Frew and GeneMayer often came by our booth at the TransAmerica pro tourney.
    Could you be setting a trend for the future? With the bigger racket, more power is needed for the volley to fend off the powerful groundies.....:shock:
     
    #86
  37. Julieta

    Julieta Guest

    I think your volleys look good, especially your backhand. Do you handle high backhand volleys well? It looks as if you would be able to hit that shot well. Of course you could use more legs but so can everyone except the top ten in the world!
     
    #87
  38. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    No, he doesn't.

    He is actually revolted by the idea, excepting of course, the swing volley.

    J
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2009
    #88
  39. MegacedU

    MegacedU Professional

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    I wouldn't say your volleys stink per se. But you form is definitely self-taught yeah? First of all notice the racquet position on nearly all of your volleys. Your racquet is almost horizontal. This is a huge no. It makes me wonder if you're having grip issues as well. Your racquet should always be standing up. This means that if you get a low volley, like the ones that the guy in the video was feeding, you're going to need to bend your knees and get really low. I also think you're swinging a little too much and that's why you're having trouble controlling where they're going. Once you get your racquet vertical, you'll be able to punch in the direction of the volley. From there you'll be able to work on your depth.
     
    #89
  40. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Eikel is the only person who ever mentioned a backhand volley BACKSWING!
    I only mentioned the long forward swing, and somehow he transposed it into his mind that I meant BACKSWING.
    Do you know the difference between backswing and forwardswing?
    I hope at least some of you know.
    Oh, 2 hander backhand volley works really well. Gotta cover that 1/2 step each way, of course, but it can be powerful and directed in all directions by the volleyer. I mentioned a few guys who can volley using it.....
    All this talk about big rackets favoring big groundies....maybe it also favors BIG VOLLEYS!
    But it's OK to obey current USPTA rules about cloning topspin groundies and never volleying.
     
    #90
  41. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Meg... McEnroe, one of the BEST volleyers ever !
    OP, you bounce the ball off your racket, not caress with underspin and foreward stroke. That is your problem. Don't be so quick to get rid of the ball.
     
    #91
  42. blue12

    blue12 Rookie

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    The biggest thing I notice is that your racket does not stay parallel to the net on your forehand and not long enough on your backhand.
    You could literally stand on one foot and still make a good volley as long as you keep the racket parallel to the net and keep a short, short motion!! You are doing too much, I think you should try keeping your racket parallel to the net and take a much shorter swing. Hit about 10,000 on each side off the wall and you should be good to go!!
     
    #92
  43. MegacedU

    MegacedU Professional

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    I think you mean perpendicular.
     
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  44. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I think everyone here should look at Federer's putaway volley shots posted on another thread here maybe a week ago. LONG forward stroke on the backhand volley. Short punch stroke on the forehand volley.
     
    #94
  45. blue12

    blue12 Rookie

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    No I mean the racket face should be parallel to the net as soon as you know you are hitting a forehand and after the ball is struck!
     
    #95
  46. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    We've already said many times that Federer takes big cuts at his volleys sometimes. It's nothing new. He can do it because he's Federer. The average tennis instructor isn't going to get a SINGLE student even close to his skill level.
     
    #96
  47. MegacedU

    MegacedU Professional

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    No this is NEVER the case. The racquet face should be up and down to avoid "wind shield" wiper volleys. I've been playing tennis for 15 years including at the Division I level. Any pro I've ever encountered has always stressed the vertical racquet position on volleys. The racquet should never ever be sideways.
     
    #97
  48. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    True, your average student hasn't got the skills, hand eye, quickness, coordination, or technique, but.... what are you gonna say when they point out that Rafter, Cash, Edberg, Nastase, Tanner, and Fed employ longer forwards strokes on their backhand volleys and shorter forward strokes on their forehand volleys? You can't say they are gifted, and can do anything they want. That wouldn't explain WHY so many top pros volley just like the examples I listed. There must be an explanation....maybe it's BETTER !!:shock::shock::shock:
     
    #98
  49. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Agree about the windshield wiper thing, but there are situations where the racquet will stay perpendicular to the net, more or less. It's a very bad idea to focus on the open face through contact. It'll happen naturally on most volleys as a result of what you've done up until contact.

    Matt
     
    #99
  50. blue12

    blue12 Rookie

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    What? What does vertical have to do with the racket face being parallel to the net?
     

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