Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Homey, Sep 23, 2008.
You two are talking about two different things.
I've said this so many times it's not even funny. THE PROS DO THINGS THAT ARE BEYOND THE AVERAGE PLAYER! Maybe I should tell everybody to serve 130 MPH "because it's better", hahahahahaha!
Keep posting, by all means. I need a good laugh.
Therein lies the huge fault with our tennis teaching system!
To ignore what the pros do.
How about.... hit the serve like THIS (show vid of Fed). NOT HIT 130 mph all by itself.
SHOW the pro technique, don't hide it from everyone. Once a duffer sees how the pros do it, they can try and then judge for themselves whether YOUR taught system is better than what the pros do.
At least consider reality here.
Watch the master.
And I'm talking about McEnroe although Fed is quite good also obviously!
Please. I'm learning how to teach the same game the pros use from a FUNDAMENTAL standpoint. A slightly longer back-swing does not mean a difference in one's technique. Have you ever seen a player struggling with his volleys because he was swinging at them? Thought so.
OK, you know I love posting about the past....
Waterski jumping. I usually go with the LaPoint brothers and the Duval bro and sis. They give me pointers once in a while. They never condecend to telling me how a duffer should do it, they tell me just how THEY learned to do it.
Maybe I never cleared over 110 in a tournament Mens11, but their advice was practical and concise, and totally applied to my level also. Bobby went maybe 175. Sammy easy 190. Camille around 120. Their advice helped me get from 60' to 110 in tournaments to over 130 in practice.
Completely irrelevant to this thread. Entirely different subject without even going into detail about the technique involved. Not to mention that you hinted to the way I teach tennis as an "old duffer method". Logical fallicies FTW.
Why do you talk "backswing"?
I never mentioned "backswing" on this thread, except to say I never mentioned backswing. I mention the forward stroke, underspin, backhand volley is longer than the forward stroke, underspin, forehand volley.
Where to you get this "backswing" stuff from?
I guess so, although I don't think I would agree with the racket needing to be totally vertical when you strike the ball either! (meaning the but of the racket facing the ground)
You just said this when you said it is a longer stroke. How would your forward swing be longer without a longer back-swing? I've heard of shooting yourself in the foot before, but you just pulled out the AK-47 and went to town on it.
And of course you think it's irrelevant! You only teach the way YOU WERE TAUGHT !! You know NO flexibility, you cannot see the obvious (like your own posted vid), you don't talk to the PRO players, and you see no relevancy to the pro level technique !!!!!
BungalowBill, SysAn, where are all you guys? Are you all so caught up in this ONE USPTA format for teaching you fail to see the obvious?
Open your eyes. The world is NOT based on 1990 VicBraden or whomever insights. It's now 2009. or so
What does the backswing have to do with longer forward swing stroke?
ARE YOU LOSING YOUR MIND ?
Can't someone just extend their racket towards the net longer, thus lengthening the forward swing, WITHOUT anything to do with backswing?
Now I KNOW you are a bad teacher, you think the backswing is tied to the forward swing. NO it's the BACKSWING!
Geez, how can anyone learn tennis from someone who can't delineate backswing from forward swing.
Don't worry, BB will be along shortly to deal the final knockout blow. Then again, he may just mess with you for a few pages as I've done.
BTW, I'm self taught through http://www.virtualtennisacademy.com and video analysis, along with the posts of BB and others. Not a bad reference at all, I'd say.
In 1970, we were taught to use it, take it apart, put it back together, and got to fire maybe 20 rounds thru it.
Also, AK74, the 5.45mm version, we saw in pics and vids, but no one in the West had captured one before. Not until 1978 did we buy a few from friendly Afghans.
Just some history to lighten up this discussion.:shock::shock:
The racquet beam/face should be roughly 45 degrees to the court on any volley chest high or below. High volleys must be angled down into the court. Up and down racquet face doesn't make sense. What do you mean?
What, no comments on my weapons training in 1970? I also got to try the Beretta 92 vs the RugerP85 vs the SigSauer and HK protos.
I'm discussing ready position to just before contact. Of course it should be angled downward but the racquet should never go horizontally.
I"m lost and clueless, as usual....
When I volley, my racketFACE faces upwards like 45 degrees all the way thru the forward stroke. Not exactly 45, how can anyone really measure?
My racket handle length is usually facing up slightly, rackethead above rackethandle. McEBoy is the only great/good volleyer who tilts his rackethead downwards on the volley stroke.
Sorry, just thought I'd throw more confusion and smoke into this thread....
I'm not following you. The racquet should be exactly horizontal during the volley. Maybe horizontal-ish... like 45 degrees or so.
With a continental grip,
1)face the butt of the racquet to the net and the face parallel to the court... this is 0 degrees (or 180)
2)butt of racquet to the court and face parallel to the net is 90 degrees (or perpendicular)
3)butt cap facing the service line and face parallel to the court is 180 degrees (or 0).
No no no way... Maybe we're not thinking of the same thing of just describing it differently. When i was young I got yelled at to know end for wind shield wiper volleys.
Do you mean REVERSE windshield wiper volleys?
what the hell is a windshield wiper volley?
I was always taught to keep the racquet head up, and not to the side. a horizontal racquet head is a windshield wiper volley.
Not sure I understand, but if it works for you... then do it!
So does that mean JohnBoy McEBoy has a WW volley? He lays his rackethead below his hands.
Haha it's not just me though. I promise.
Yeah it seamed to me like the McEnroe lays his racket down!
I guess there's probably about 10 ways to make it work!
I like the McEnroe way though.
MegacedU: You're talking about a volley where you swing low to high, like a groundstroke, right? I used to do the same thing on the forehand side. Tough habit to break, for sure.
Well trying that would certainly make those shoestring volleys interesting to say the least
Racquet head above the wrist, right? Then yes... the racquet head should always be "up" above the wrist.
This guy volleys fairly well with his "old duffer" backhand volley technique. :roll:
Yes he volleys well.
I don't see the "old duffer" in his technique tho.
His rackethead is above the hand. Traditional it's say.
And McEBoy volleyed OK too.
How about.... if you volley WORKS WELL, continue to progress with it.
If your volley is weak or inconsistent, better change zom ding....
Every volley is above the waistline and 3ft from the net... the volleys are basically ducks.
I think he starts the vid about 4' inside the service line, gets tired, and moves forward to duck position.
For sure, I can volley that well that close to the net, and not getting any low hard balls, just high medium paced "ducks" in a row, rapid fire.
What kills me is the hard low balls when I'm coming in, and if I get much inside the service line, the topspin lob, usually over my backhand side.
Ducks are fun to volley. In tennis, unless you like to play waaaay down, ducks are far and few between......
I wasn't referring to the quality of play in itself. Was simply proving a point to LeeD about the "longer swing" BS he's been posting here.
DJ. Are you still blind? Can you drive a car? Are you soooo enamored by the teaching style you were taught to never look at reality?
LOOK at your own vids! EVERY backhand volley has a longer forward swing than any forehand volley!
ARE YOU BLIND?
And I can easily volley ducks as well as that Aussie guy.
Not to much problems with the high backhand volley indeed, the low ones are always the hardest
but of course you can..... he's 500 in the world or something.... but your volleys are just as good close to net net
Put a sock in it. I'm tired of this.
I don't care if the follow through is slightly longer, for reasons unknown to myself. I am interested in the backswing and the swing to contact. The follow-through is simply a byproduct of the two, and has nothing to do with the amount of pace or spin applied to the volley.
Isn't the follow thru PART of the forward swing?
You are choosing to ignore certain facts in order to promote your ideas.
And Eikel... welcome back!
I am NOT making fun of you, but you don't seem to understand the English language possibly because it's your second language.
And YES, for sure I can volley as well or better as that Aussie fellow. I did go 4 and 5 rounds in pro qualifiers, I did play over 20 A - Open tournaments.
Just because a vid is posted, doesn't mean we wannabees can't do the same strokes.
And you don't have to ask WHY I'm not current top 100. I'm 60, broke my left clavical THREE times, separated and dislocated left shoulder a few times, and would you believe, am getting OLDER.
followthrough are the same on forehand and backhand, perhaps it doesnt look that way because for the backhand your right shoulder starts in front of you, for the forehand volley it starts a bit backwards of course
I understand english fine, except not when you are speaking it ..... doesn't have to be entirely my fault you know .....
YOUR volleys, you think follow thru is the same.
But RogerFederer's volleys, in the vid where he puts the ball away, shows a much longer backhand underspin stroke, more shoulder turn, more body moving forwards towards the net.
I'd consider what Roger does, and try to understand why your volleys are not as good as his.
I"m not talking about my volleys, talking about the pro's
a video of Federer, his forehands volleys are at least as long as his backhands volleys, except for the ones hit on his body there he just blocks them. Look at the first volley in that vid....
Well, we are about 3 billion hours of practice and coaching away.
LOL! Classic. So that is why you arent in the top 100. You broke your clavical three times.
Welcome to this thread, BBill....
You know I started tennis in '74. I 11 break compounded my fib/tib in late '71, needing 13 months in a cast of some kind. Also broke left elbow humus, or something like that, but they were more worried about 5 broken fingers, and left the elbow to cure on it's own.
In 1978, I broke my left clavical.
In 1980, I broke it again 2" from the first break.
In 1980, I also separated my shoulder (left) and dislocated my right.
Maybe I would have still been a 4.5 player by 1981, but thatsa lotta breaks in a little few years, ya dink?
As for the volleys. Yes, easy that good from that location, fed easy medium speed balls. Unfortunately, when I play singles, my opponents do not feed me those easy balls.
You know I claim 4.0 for my level.
My secret is to hit them into the net, say a few swear words, and walk back to the baseline for the next point.
Alternately, if you are going out later and want to try to impress the ladies with your tennis battle scars, you can pop them up and get fed the proverbial fuzz sandwich.
Option 2 stings a little more, but is also fairly easy to execute.
Swearing can be cool, but what do you do if you're playing a girl?
If it is a junior, and her parents are watching, or someone older I keep a lid on it, and when I am talking to them in conversation, or trying to explain something I use substitute words. Like say "Hit the tar out of it." Instead of saying "Hit the ever loving f'ck out of it."
If it is a girl in the general area of my age, I still curse, just not excessively.
I am only really bad if I am just hanging out talking to the boys, or really putting forth effort in a match against someone with personality, or in a practice session.
Otherwise I am rather civil and well spoken.
Separate names with a comma.