Help Me with my volleys!!! (Video)

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Homey, Sep 23, 2008.

  1. cl76

    cl76 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2009
    Messages:
    123
    Yeh you're right Dj it's about the OP not LeeD (apologies if I went OT).

    I'm not defending LeeD, just questioning why his post is considered irrelevant by some - as he does post a lot of advice.
     
  2. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    5,484
    Location:
    Stillwater, OK
    Oh, I had a lot to do with that as well. I'm stubborn, in case you didn't notice. I still stand by what I said though, and think that the OP needs to focus on the fundamentals, not how big a swing the pros use. Volleys use mostly the pace of the incoming ball anyway, so a larger swing will just lead to off center hitting for most players.
     
  3. Slicendicer

    Slicendicer Guest


    Despite my usually sunny disposition, many people find me disagreeable... I don't know whats wrong with them...
     
  4. Slicendicer

    Slicendicer Guest


    Caste the first stone... or something like that... isn't that one of your "lessons" you adhere to?

    Lets see some vid of the Matt-ster volley technique... I am curious to see a tennis game based on virtual tennis lessons and no actual coaching.

    C'mon... do it. :shock:
     
  5. Slicendicer

    Slicendicer Guest


    Jager-Bombs... no fountain of youth, but drink enough of them, you will find the porcelain throne.
     
  6. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    5,484
    Location:
    Stillwater, OK
    That post was addressed to LD, if you took the time to read. I never said that my volley technique is perfect. But I do know HOW to hit a perfect volley. I'm still very young and have lots to learn. My main focus has been my serve and forehand over the last couple months. The way I see it, the volley is a piece of cake if you're coming in on a heavy shot like that.

    And I never said that I could hang with top players in the world either; LD did. I dislike when someone is posting their "credentials" instead of discussing their views intelligently.

    If LD can debate the issue and prove me wrong using a sufficient amount of video evidence, then I'll back off. But this section should be evaluated based on the quality of the information posted, not an NTRP scale. It is possible to possess knowledge without actually applying it, you know. Still working on the latter.

    Will post a video when I get one that I can live with.

    Matt
     
  7. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,334
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Crap, and all this time I have been going with Whisky and PCP.

    J
     
  8. Slicendicer

    Slicendicer Guest

    Hey Matt... although I believe the volley is the easiest stroke in tennis, it is hardly a piece of cake. You have a lot to learn if you want to be a "professional" coach... a lot. As for LeeD, who cares... leave him be... he means well and obviously is as amped up about tennis as you are. You may consider unplugging from this virtual tennis world you think is so great... I can tell you it is not. You can't learn tennis from a computer. Find a group of juniors and a coach and start working on your game.

    BTW... knowing "how to hit a perfect volley" means nothing. You don't need to be reeming others on how to volley, when you admittedly can't volley yourself.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2009
  9. Slicendicer

    Slicendicer Guest

    Whatever you do, stay away from the stuff Djokavicfan4life is smoking... :)
     
  10. Julieta

    Julieta Guest

    I think volleying at a high level is actually very diifficult, takes a lot of discipline as well because you have to know what to do for each type of ball. It also takes a high level of fitness. If you're doing volley drills and the legs aren't burning something is wrong! Good volleyers make it look easy and effortless though.
     
  11. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,137
    Location:
    Valhalla
    you would be correct. volleying at a high level is very difficult. you need to get your footwork perfect. and getting there is almost impossible with how good people are at the baseline now. to many people stand at net either getting fed balls or with a hitting partner thats just floating balls back and thinking there volleys are good when in fact there just standing there pushing the ball back. just because its going in doesnt make it good. if it has nothing on it you lose.
     
  12. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    5,484
    Location:
    Stillwater, OK
    That's the most ignorant statement I've seen in awhile. This is the internet, buddy. It's not like I'm along side every poster showing them how to hit the shot. And yes, it IS possible to learn through writing and knowing how to apply it with correct practice habits.

    Furthermore, when I said the volley is a piece of cake I was exaggerating. Thought that was obvious. All I meant was that winning points at net is much easier when you're coming in on a good offensive shot. Ever heard of Pete Sampras?

    My technique may not be perfect as of now, but many players have complimented me on my skills at net. And my backhand volley is not so bad. Am working on grooving the forehand volley.

    I've said multiple times that I have a lot to learn about coaching. Do you get some sort of sick pleasure from putting others down?

    I'm getting tired of this.

    Matt
     
  13. Slicendicer

    Slicendicer Guest


    How exactly is anybody to know you are exagerrating? Case and point. Written words don't reflect inflections.

    Winning points is easier at net when following an offensive shot?? What are you talking about? I see... winning service games is easier if you serve aces. I think I follow your logic now.

    Sampras... sure... who hasn't heard of Pete Sampras?

    I'm not coming down on you... you just leave it wide open. Choose your words and only offer advice if you know what you are talking about... and with all due respect... you don't coach, play tournaments, or have ever had a coached tennis lesson. Why are you critiquing everybody's tennis game?

    I was a high performance coach years ago... if you want advice on endurance workouts, hit me up. I got you, baby... it's all good. :)
     
  14. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    5,484
    Location:
    Stillwater, OK
    I'm doing my best at this and I apologize if you misinterpreted some of my posts. Everyone has to start somewhere.

    BTW, I have taught already to some extent. My little brother's serve has improved a LOT using the ACE system. Clocked it at around 95 MPH, and I think he can break the 100 MPH mark on a good day.
     
  15. Julieta

    Julieta Guest

    Is that the Heath Waters thing? I dont know them (I'm older than Lindsay) but some girls I have worked with know her and everyone loves those kids. She and that Rossana are the tour moms, people just love them. I think it is great. She has proven you can have a balanced life.
     
  16. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    5,484
    Location:
    Stillwater, OK
    Yes, great people. Their site has changed my game in ways I never thought possible. The detail is just amazing. Have posted many questions to Heath and he's always been quick to respond. Consider myself subscribed for life.

    Matt
     
  17. Julieta

    Julieta Guest

    Exactly, it has to stick or you're going to get passed and that is not easy. But I also think a lot of people dont play this style not only because it is so hard, but so few coaches understand it. It is hard to get help, so many coaches fall back on cliches that arent going to work at a high level and on top of that it takes so much time to practice it. You have to do all of the other stuff and on top of that devote a ton of time to working on volleys, most people get overwhelmed. Tennis is ridiculously hard.
     
  18. Julieta

    Julieta Guest

    I should go to it, maybe it will help me. I will look into it. She's certainly done very well.
     
  19. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    5,484
    Location:
    Stillwater, OK
    Can't go wrong with the free samples, haha!
     
  20. Julieta

    Julieta Guest

    Free is good...

    How is OSU's tennis these days? I guess I could look myself. A couple of friends of mine from back in the day (male and female) played there in the early 90s. They were really good back then! The women's team has always had a strong polish connection. The guy I knew was american, I think a *******erner, he was really good. I cant remember his name though.
     
  21. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    5,484
    Location:
    Stillwater, OK
    Well, we've certainly taken a bit of a plunge since the 80s (national champs throughout the entire decade if I read correctly). I haven't been playing long, so my knowledge of the college tennis system is lacking a bit.

    One of the girls on the team has an unbelievable serve. That thing is just a cannon.

    Women's coach is very cool. Sold me a Fischer M Pro for 50 bucks and is gonna sell me another.

    It's fun to listen to people yelling in foreign languages, I must admit.
     
  22. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,334
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Isn't that kind of what makes it fun?

    J
     
  23. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,455
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Wow, I just can't believe anyone who thinks volleys would be easy to learn after they learn their groundies.
    I've been volleying for well over 30 years, and even thos it's great for my level of tennis, when I hit with 5.5's and better, they need help. Of course, the 5.5's hit to my feet, use tons of spin, and stretch me side to side....and don't tell me where and how they are gonna hit their passing shots :shock:
     
  24. Julieta

    Julieta Guest

    Definitely!
     
  25. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,334
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Finally got vid from the other angle. Much easier to see what's up. Got a collection of half court warmup, volley drill, and attacking points.

    http://vimeo.com/3427345

    J
     
  26. cl76

    cl76 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2009
    Messages:
    123
    Homey:

    I think you're on the right track with the forehand volley.

    With the back hand volley I might suggest keeping a firm wrist and not doing the little follow through motion/wrist flick. Punch and hold.
     
  27. EikelBeiter

    EikelBeiter Professional

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2008
    Messages:
    890
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Yeah that's a great camera position, really shows whats going on! I your drive volleys btw. Keep up the good work !

    Volleys in general should feel stable i imagine with a 14 oz beast ? :)
     
  28. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,334
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Thanks man, work in progress.

    And yea, the frame volleys quite nicely. Anything that goes wrong it 100% my fault :)

    J
     
  29. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    5,484
    Location:
    Stillwater, OK
    Haha, at first it looked like you meant the actual frame volleys nicely. Was getting visions of my epic shanked angled winners for a second.
     
  30. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,455
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    I like the way you speed up your game after a few slo moving warmup balls.
    Would like to see some more knee bend and forward movement on the harder hit half volleys.
    Some of your volleys are very good, but if you can compact your motion like Clint does, your volleys would be more consistent.
     
  31. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,334
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Well. . . Not to brag, but I have hit some pretty nice framed second serves :)

    J
     
  32. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,334
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    My wrist appreciates the slow half court warmup. Especially in colder weather.

    J
     
  33. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    5,484
    Location:
    Stillwater, OK
    I imagine twist serves would be monstrous.
     
  34. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,334
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    You saw my "Kickserve From Hell" video right?

    Over the 12' high back curtain!

    J
     
  35. EikelBeiter

    EikelBeiter Professional

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2008
    Messages:
    890
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Thats a wicked serve... did it hit a line ?
     
  36. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,334
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Either the inside of the line or a depression in the clay. I actually hit 4 of them in that match, the other 3 hit about a foot from the top of the curtain, and that one went over. I have hit them over the side curtain in the ad court onto the next court before but never straight over the back curtain.

    Glad I got it on video! No one would have believed otherwise.

    J
     
  37. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    5,484
    Location:
    Stillwater, OK
    And that is why you should never play on a clay court, boys and girls.
     
  38. EikelBeiter

    EikelBeiter Professional

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2008
    Messages:
    890
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Nothing beats playing on a decent clay court in my opinion :)
     
  39. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,334
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    As long as I don't have to play on that synthetic grass and sand crap that people tell stories about, I won't complain much.

    J
     
  40. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    5,484
    Location:
    Stillwater, OK
    Ever played on real grass, Jo11y? I bet you'd hate it with those long swings.
     
  41. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,334
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    I can't tell if you are joking or serious with the betting I would hate it.

    J
     
  42. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,455
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    I'm slow and old, and love playing on grass. Sometimes, I was scheduled kinda early AM, so some dew and damp grass. Just loved it, easy on the body, nice speed on my shots, and I think more consistent once you get used to the skiddier feel.
    And starting and stopping must be like playing on clay (I never walked onto a clay court). Nice long slides with stance planted, just perfect for the old bones. At least compared to straight concrete without a top layer.
     
  43. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    5,484
    Location:
    Stillwater, OK
    Well, I was somewhat serious, just by looking at your style of play and the fact that you seem to play mostly on clay. Not knocking you, just asking. I must play on grass some day.
     
  44. whoopinstick

    whoopinstick Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2009
    Messages:
    271
    The perfect drill for you so that you won't chop at your backhand volley is to place a table in front of you when you hit your volley so it forces you to not chop at it. Your racket is like a plane, it cannot nose dive into the volley or else it will crash. It needs to make a smooth landing after contact.
     
  45. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,334
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Ok, I have an idea. You say you want to be a coach. And you are dangerously close to becoming that guy who just parrots stuff that he hears and reads and sees elsewhere without actually understanding or seeing the whole picture, which in and of itself is difficult due to your lack of experience.

    Now analyzing players is a huge thing, for scouting opposition, and helping people you are coaching.

    I have an exercise in mind that you can do, and we will use your statement as a basis for it, and we will use me as the test subject/guinea pig.

    It will probably take you an hour or two if you do a complete job, and put some effort into it, and will work on getting you to watch, and think, instead of just knee jerking and spitting out the answer from the "Close Cover Before Striking" manual of tennis instruction.

    All it requires is a pencil and paper, and some thought on your part.

    Hopefully it will put you in a different frame of mind, and get you thinking about things, the hows and whys, not so much just looking for the right answer.

    If you are interested I will write it up in the morning.

    J
     
  46. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    5,484
    Location:
    Stillwater, OK
    I don't get it, Jo11y. It was just a question. I guess you DO like to play on grass?

    I've never liked these tennis cliches anymore than you do. :confused:

    In all honesty, I was just making conversation. My apologies if it was offensive to you.
     
  47. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,334
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    No, no, I am not being pissy, nor am I upset.

    Just that I would like to see you think.

    I will type out the exercise when I get home from work.

    I guarantee it will make your brain work, and it is nothing you will find online or in any coaching course, and maybe will help you evaluate and see some other things in peoples games.

    Also something that will help you when it comes time to discuss pattern play by understanding what the student has in the toolbox. (Something I unfortunately rarely see discussed here by the 'TW Coaches')

    J
     
  48. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    5,484
    Location:
    Stillwater, OK
    Well, we may be getting a little off topic for a volley thread, but carry on. I'm listening.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2009
  49. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,334
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    OK, Firstly, since I have limited video up and I can't imagine you actually want to watch a lot of it (Bad enough I have to suffer through watching each one 3+ times) and secondly because a lot isn't shown in the vids because they are short, or only show certain players, or talked about by me, anything you don't know about or are unsure about, just ask me, and I will give you my best answer.

    Now for the exercise. Remember that this is comparing a player to other players of comprable ability, so it works for everyone from 2.5-7.0 (The list just gets longer as you go up in level)

    Take out your pencil, and list all of the tennis related tools I posess, from both a shot and ability perspective.

    First you list the shots that the player has in his toolbox

    Backhand
    -Topspin Rally
    -Flat Drive
    -Short Angle
    -Rally Slice
    -Attacking Slice

    Serve
    -Flat
    -Topspin
    -Kick
    -Topspin/Slice
    - Hard Slice
    -Off Speed

    For each stroke

    Then abilities:

    Court Coverage

    Hit on the rise

    Power

    Crowd the Baseline

    Attacking Play

    Balance

    Mental Toughness

    Footwork

    Speed

    Topspin

    and on and on.

    Then you make neutral observations about their game and style of play.
    Long Strokes

    Baseliner

    All Court Player

    Aggressive

    Patient

    Tentative

    Tall

    Thin

    And on and on...


    Finally, list the players 5 biggest assets, and their 5 biggest liabilities.


    Ok, now you have this mighty list.

    Now you go through it the second time.

    When you go through the list of tools, anything that is just a routine shot that the player can hit, you leave alone. Any shot that they have which you would say that they can use as a weapon, or that you would consider a weapon you put a W next to. Any shot that they can, and do hit, but you consider unreliable put a U next to. Of course this is compared to players of equal ability, so one's serve may be a weapon at his level, neutral a level above, and a liability two levels up. But if it is a weapon against people whom he has competitive scores 6-3 or closer you mark it as a W, or likewise U if it is unreliable at his level.

    Next you go through the list of abilities. Anything a player has above average you put a + next to. Anything they have that is below average you put a - next to. Anything average you leave alone. If something is OUTSTANDINGLY above normal, or below normal you put a ++ or a --. Because you know, everyone has SOME court coverage, so that will be on everyone's list, and everyone has SOME speed. So the need for the + or -. Other items like Topspin, or Hit on the Rise, not everyone has, and can either be on, or off the list.

    Lastly the 5 biggest assets and 5 biggest liabilities. That is pretty easy. I usually do them in order. So if someone's Forehand or Speed, or Serve, or whatever, is their primary weapon, it goes on the top of the list.

    Now this is kind of a bummer to do the first time, because it takes a while to set up (especially since you are doing me, and I have a ton of variety in my game) but once you get the first list done then it makes it really easy to do other players because you can just edit it.

    Now that your list is done, you can put it to work to answer the question. "Is Jolly's game more suited to a fast or a slow court?" (or pretty much anything else you want to interpret like styles of play one would fare best against)

    To do that, you go down the list.

    And for each item on it, tool, ability, neutral observation, weapon or liability you consider if that item is more useful on a fast court, a slow court, or if it is the same value on both. If the answer is Fast you put an "F" next to it if the answer is Slow, you put an "S" next to it. If the answer is that they are of equal value on all surfaces you leave it alone.

    Then you tally it up and come up with an answer.

    In analyzing "Player X" you find that she has

    27 tools better suited to fast court use
    18 tools better suited to slow court use

    11 abilities better suited to fast court use
    5 abilities better suited to slow court use

    4 neutral things about her game that favor fast courts
    6 neutral things about her game that favor slow courts

    3 of her weapons are of more value on a fast court
    1 of her weapons is of more value on a slow court

    2 of her liabilities are of more value on a fast court
    2 of her liabilities are of more value on a slow court

    Listing like this is also a tremendous asset to the player, because they can look the list over, and see what needs practice, what shots should be leaned on in a match, and which should be used sparingly. And when faced with an adverse situation (A player or surface they don't care for) they can review and see that some of their tools are still effective.

    J
     
  50. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,334
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Also it is not important that you get the right answer about me, since I am just some random dude on the internet who offered himself up as a guinea pig.

    But the idea is to get your thought process to work.

    And of course when you do it for someone you coach, it IS important to get it right :)

    J
     

Share This Page