Helping new players learn the Coman tiebreak procedure

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Orange, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. Orange

    Orange Rookie

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    Of course, the very best way to help my new players (who have never played a match) learn how to use the Coman tiebreak procedure is to play using it. Weather has prevented us several times from playing several times, and our first match is looming.

    A year ago, I found a good explanation with a diagram online, but I can't find it now. It was not the one on the USTA site. I have the instructions without a diagram. I can't remember whether the explanation I saw was part of a video.

    Does anyone know where online to find a good explanation with a diagram for beginners?
     
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  2. TXdad

    TXdad New User

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    Perform a lobotomy on them, dumbest thing ever, all that walking back and forth, hate it.
     
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  3. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    Coman is very simple for doubles, everyone serves from the same side they served from during the set. The first person serves once from the deuce court and then everyone else serves twice starting from the ad court.

    It actually makes more sense for doubles than the old way.

    In singles it may be a little more confusing ... but it is still less confusing than sometimes having to serve 1 point then switch sides before serving your next point.

    Even in singles,after the first point, both people serve two points then switch sides and repeat
     
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  4. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    The Coman tiebreaker is just the worst.

    I play one dude who insists on using it, but most of my other tennis people have thankfully never heard of this abomination.
     
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  5. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    I like it, particularly for doubles and honestly fail to see what the fuss is about. Like has already been said it can't be any stupider than seving one point on one side of the net then having to cross to the other side to hit the next one.
     
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  6. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    It adds a pointless complication to a sport where players frequently forget the score as is. There's plenty to remember in tennis without throwing a goofy-rules novelty tiebreaker into the mix.
     
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  7. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Coman actually makes it easier to remember service order and score, IMHO. You start serving your two points from the same side. Odd points start from the ad side, which is each server's first of two points. Switch on the first point and every four points thereafter. Easy.

    I also like how the extra changeovers give me and my partner a few extra seconds to move to the other side and *think.*

    Even though our matches are indoors, I prefer that we stick to Coman.
     
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  8. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    Coman keeps doubles players serving from the same side in the tiebreak as they did in the set and keeps all tiebreaks from having a player switch sides from one serve to the next. It is not pointless.

    If it is too complicated for you ok. At least you are confident enough to admit that on a public forum.
     
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  9. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    Coman is a great thing for doubles and useless in singles. I don't get why they don't just stick with that and if players forget and use the wrong one then what is the big deal?

    I really don't get how people think it is complicated. Seriously.... how dumb do you have to be to think that it is complicated?
     
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  10. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    You shouldn't be calling other people dumb. "It adds a pointless complication" (which I said) is not the same thing as "it is complicated" (which nobody here has said; Coman isn't complicated in isolation, it becomes a complication when you add it to the existing rule system that everyone naturally uses).

    The guy who insists on using Coman is one of my singles opponents. At least you and I can agree that Coman is useless in singles.
     
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  11. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

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    The one thing I like about Coman in singles is that you need to switch more frequently. The side you start on seems less likely to decide the outcome if one side is way worse than the other.
     
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  12. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    Yeah, my Coman fan buddy says this system started in southern California to minimize disadvantages related to playing into the sun at sunrise or sunset. I don't think it's meaningfully different from switching every six points, but if players agree to use it, to each their own.
     
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  13. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I think it is very different in singles compared to the old way. If it is very windy, being on the bad side for the first six points of a seven point tiebreak is not fair.
     
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  14. VeeSe

    VeeSe Rookie

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    I always thought it was a "combing" tiebreak.
     
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  15. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    Why? It can be a strategic play to go for / avoid a tiebreaker if the wind would be a factor. I don't see why this opportunity creates anything "not fair."
     
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  16. vegasgt3

    vegasgt3 Rookie

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    I actually think its the fair way to it. It is confusing because the Pro's don't use it. But, they should too!
     
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  17. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    What's wrong with the normal tiebreak again?
     
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  18. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    Apparently it is somehow "not fair."
     
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  19. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    http://macontennis.com/comantiebreak.pdf

    I didn't mean to hijack this thread with my editorial comments on the procedure. My apologies to the OP. The link above provides a decent explanation, with diagrams, of how Coman works.
     
    #19
  20. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Sounds like a (bad) excuse for not being able to figure it out.
     
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  21. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Right. Players should make sure they don't wind up in a tiebreak and should instead bagel their opponent. That's just good strategy! :)
     
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  22. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    Well that's what I always do :)

    Have you never played anyone who intentionally dumped games to set themselves up for the next set? In my experience fatigue is the usual reason for dumping, but that's not the only one.
     
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  23. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    I'm sorry- if you think that changing after 4 points rather thatn 6 points is a complication then I think that a box of rocks is smarter than you.

    You can complain about too many changeovers. You can complain that there is no good reason to do the coman tiebreak for singles. But if you complain that the coman tiebreak is an added complication then I don't understand how you can tie your shoes by yourself and velcro is likely the greatest thing that has ever happened to you.
     
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  24. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    You didn't understand the difference between "complication" and "complicated," and here you are making personal attacks on my intelligence. You amuse me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
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  25. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    Maybe you do not understand the meaning of the word complication.

    Definition of COMPLICATION from http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/complication

    1. a : complexity, intricacy; especially : a situation or a detail of character complicating the main thread of a plot
    b : a making difficult, involved, or intricate
    c : a complex or intricate feature or element
    d : a difficult factor or issue often appearing unexpectedly and changing existing plans, methods, or attitudes

    2: a secondary disease or condition developing in the course of a primary disease or condition

    So which of those usages would not be describing something that was complicated?
     
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  26. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    Post the definitions of both terms, post a cogent analysis of how they are parallel, then get back to me. I'll be waiting eagerly for your report.
     
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  27. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    I don't think anyone in their right mind would intentionally go to a tiebreak rather than winning a set outright just to set up the service order in the next set.

    Also switching sides more often is less complicated than trying to remember when you serve both points from one side and when you serve one, switch, then serve the next one from the other side.

    Lastly, if something has an added complication then by definition it would be more complicated.
     
    #27
  28. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    agreed.

    It sucks to have the first six points with a bright afternoon winter sun in your face under the regular TB.

    With Coman, it is a lot nicer than serving and receiving 6 points in a row a and having to dig from behind, down 4-2 , 5-1 or worse 6-0.
     
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  29. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    Doubles is easiest to use an example. Lets say that you have a lefty playing with a righty and you set it up so that both people are serving out of the sun. You can play the entire match this way except for in the tiebreak and then you have to serve from a side you haven't served from all match? For doubles the coman tiebreak makes far more sense.
     
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  30. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    Sorry, there's an extent to which I'll go to help someone such as yourself who is so willing to admit their deficiencies but that is past it.
     
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  31. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    The funny part is that I wasn't even talking about him when I made my original post. I just asked how dumb someone would have to be to think that it is complicated. I suppose that I should be thankful that he volunteered to show us.
     
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  32. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    "More complicated" isn't the same thing as "meaningfully complicated." And with that, I'm through with playing the semantics game here, it's pointless.

    As for "anyone in their right mind," you've evidently never played anyone who openly threw games in Set 2 so they'd be better equipped for Set 3.

    Obviously not everyone here sees Coman the same way I do, and that's fine.

    (edit to note I've put spot on ignore, just a heads-up to him if he's expecting a response to his recent posts)
     
    #32
  33. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    Pity. I'm sure I could learn a lot from you.
     
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  34. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    So you can't deal with the elements? What happens if the wind suddenly picks up, do you stop playing altogether then?
     
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  35. dizzlmcwizzl

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    I stepped away from this thread for 2 days and all heal breaks loose.


    Any who, regarding the fairness / complication-complicated issues that are rumbling about.

    Any system that provides each player a chance to serve an equal number of points from each side in a tie break must be considered is fair. However, I think we will all agree that in a 10 point breaker you would not want a situation where you played 9 points and then switched.

    Also, I believe that if you were to play a traditional tiebreaker and 1 side was really awful due to wind or sun that everyone would want to start the breaker on the good side. I think common sense would dictate that if you would want to go up 6-0 or 5-1 and then try and hold on. Even if after two rotations you were tied 6-6 you would be in position to move to the good side with many cracks at winning. This is lessened slightly by switching more often.

    Finally, I truly believe that if tennis had always been played with the coman system, no one, I repeat no one would be advocating going to a more complicated system of switching every 6 points and having a player switch sides in the middle of his two service points.
     
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  36. Orange

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    Thanks, TennisCasey. That isn't the explanation I was seeking, but it is a good start!

    There is no need to apologize; I think it is amusing. Here's what I see so far:

    OP: Help! The pilots are unconscious, the airplane is leaking fuel, and we're off course, flying over Siberia. How do I land an airplane on the snow?
    A1: Let scorpions loose in the passenger cabin, and the passengers won't notice that you are trying to do such a ridiculous thing.
    A2: I like to land airplanes on snow. It is better than on a runway; snow is fluffier!
    A3: Snow is fluffier in some cases but not others. It is worse in cases where there are sharp rocks just under the snow.
    A4: I never land airplanes on snow. I always make sure that we never get to that point, because my flights always have conscious pilots, don't leak fuel and stay on course.
    A5: How are you defining snow?
    A6: If all flights landed on snow, it wouldn't be a big deal.
     
    #36
  37. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Dude. Thanks for returning and talking sense.

    Sheez.
     
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  38. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    Haha... yep, that about sums it up!
     
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  39. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    takes some getting used to, but seems fair and is no big deal.

    plus, i just don't care all that much.
     
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  40. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    To be totally honest, I've never even heard of this before. It seems somewhat interesting though.

    -Fuji
     
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  41. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    The rules are set up so that in doubles a team can choose which player serves from which side.

    You are going to tell me that if you were designing the rules of tennis from scratch that you would say that in doubles a team can choose which player serves from which side except if the team is in a tiebreaker? The only reason that some people think that the coman tiebreaker is complicated is that they are used to doing it a certain way and don't want to change even if the current system makes less sense.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
    #41
  42. omega4

    omega4 Rookie

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    Spot isn't trying to win "Mr. Congeniality" on this forum.

    With that said, he doesn't strike me as being a particularly friendly, laid back person either.

     
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  43. tennytive

    tennytive Semi-Pro

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    Genius!

    10 LOLs
     
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  44. Wakenslam

    Wakenslam Rookie

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    I don't have a problem with the Coman TB. It allows you to serve on the side you did during the set. As a coach it's easier to teach the Coman. Beginners understand it more easily. Here's a link to a helpful diagram. http://assets.usta.com/assets/642/USTA_Import/Texas/dps/doc_15_822.pdf

    On a side note I don't like the 10 point Coman TB to be used ILO a third set. It takes fitness out of the game and introduces too much luck. Why not just play a pro set instead? I mean that's where we're headed next, right USTA?
     
    #44
  45. Orange

    Orange Rookie

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    Thanks very much!

    Fortunately, my team had some nice weather and was able to practice the Coman tiebreak on the courts, which is the best way to learn it!
     
    #45
  46. Sakkijarvi

    Sakkijarvi Semi-Pro

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    With the exception of one dude (a slip and fall attorney so rules/legalese likely appeal to him, or this idea of eliminating every conceivable advantage) -- none of my friends use it in singles or doubles. Insisting on using it during indoor matches is pointless, all that walking back and forth.

    I like Coleman, the lantern. Komen for the cure, very cool. This Coman IMO, super silly...
     
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