henin-hardin's racket?

Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by samej07, Aug 2, 2006.

  1. samej07

    samej07 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    283
    Location:
    Texas
    henin-hardenne's racket?

    i noticed in a pic. at the wilson tennis website that justine's racket was an obvious pj. its painted like a nTour but in the pic you can clearly see the power slots instead of regular gromates. anyone know what shes actually playing with?

    heres the link:

    http://www.wilson.com/wilson/racq/flash.jsp?inSp=tn&bmLocale=en


    then go to tour, players, women and that shows the pic
     
    #1
  2. bsandy

    bsandy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,990
    Yep . . . She was on the cover of Tennis Magazine with an hTour powerholes, a couple of years back.

    Chances are, it's a derivative of the 6.4 95.

    If you look close, you'll see power holes on the Williams Sisters.

    . . . Bud
     
    #2
  3. mca10spro

    mca10spro New User

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2006
    Messages:
    47
    Yes, It's called the N-tour 2. It's the latest edition of the N-Tour, the racquet that I use.
     
    #3
  4. tennisguy11

    tennisguy11 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2006
    Messages:
    566
    mca10spro, Henis does not use your racquet, she has a piant job of a different model
     
    #4
  5. jura

    jura Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,478
    I strung her racket some weeks ago. It's a paint job of an old HH 5.3 Stretch with Power Holes. 70,0 cm long, little less than 300 gr. unstrung and high balance. Strung with a horrible HT First Gold natural gut at 27 kilos. She said: "I use this racket and this string since so many years and I feel good with it. Since years I didn't even tested something different and I don't want to."
     
    #5
  6. scotus

    scotus Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    7,611
    This poster is probably right.

    JHH is very open about what equipment she uses and has stated on many occasions that she still uses the old hammer system.

    You can read it for yourself at www.henin-hardenne.be
     
    #6
  7. Bogie

    Bogie Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,842
    jura's always right. what he sez on these boards goes pretty much.
     
    #7
  8. ericsson

    ericsson Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,679
    Location:
    Land of beer and chocolate
    yep true, jura is the man. :cool:
     
    #8
  9. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    11,915
    Location:
    Parts unknown
    like jura says and the sound of the ball strike is as though her frame is breaking..a very unusual sound.
     
    #9
  10. mctennis

    mctennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,425
    Jura what tournament did you string her racquet at? The Cincinnati series tour is close to me but I didn't make it down this year.
     
    #10
  11. Tennis guy from NorCal

    Tennis guy from NorCal New User

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    37
    Yeah, Jura's right, even the quote sounds accurate...haha
     
    #11
  12. Ripper

    Ripper Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,652
    Location:
    "Where Moth & Rust Destroy"
    Isn't 70 centimetres equal to 27.5 inches? So, the pro player recognized for having the best backhand in the history of tennis uses an extended length raquet? And this pro player happens to be a not so strong woman with a 1hbh... Hummm... So, does this mean that the "1h backhanders can't use longer than standard length raquets theory" is pure bull excrement??? Well, YES!!! I don't mean to hijack the thread and I apologize to the OP, but I just can't seem to let pass an opportunity to repeat what I've said many times: That it's true that people with average to bad 1h (well, in this case, even, 2h) backhands, can benefit from raquets with lower swingweights and that, if you take any raquet and extend it's length, it's swingweight will increase, BUT that this doesn't mean that raquet companies can't make extended length raquets with lower swingweights and it sure doesn't mean that the same can't be used by 1h backhanders. A skilled player can use a 28 inch long raquet with an OS head, too, if that's what she/he feels better with.
     
    #12
  13. brucie

    brucie Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,318
    I posted this threwad a long while ago, and I believe the conclusion was, its a Wilson Hammer 6.3 Stretch.
     
    #13
  14. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,022
    I was wondering about this too. Actually about 4 things:

    1. She uses a 27.5 and has a 1 H BH as you say. But then, she is shorter than most recreational male players who claim that extended length is not good for 1 H BH.

    2. If her racquet is 300 g unstrung, that is like 11 oz strung. Can this be true? Can such a small person hit so hard with a 11 oz racquet?

    3. Jura says the balance is high. I assume that it means head heavy. There goes the HL is better for 1 H BH theory. But then travelrajm has said that pros uses sticks 2 to 4 points more HH than stock.

    4. Should Jura be posting these specs and specially PJ opinions and quotes of players? Isn't there a "player-stringer confidentiality", in writing or otherwise?
     
    #14
  15. jura

    jura Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,478
    I checked again my list: Her racket weight ist about 290 gr. unstrung and the balance is 35.4 cm. (Don't know waht's this in points HH or HL)
    @brucie: No, it's a HH 5.3 Stetch. If you look at old pictures it was her old racket. (the black/whit one; the 6.3 was black/yellow)
     
    #15
  16. Rysty

    Rysty Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Messages:
    163
    By the way, I have seen a Wilson ad in which Henin-Hardenne holds her "nCode"...and you can clearly see those powerholes instead of grommets.

    But since then Wilson has changed the PJ. It now has a black-and-white nCode-symbol at 3 and 9, at inner hoop. I was thinking maybe Wilson did this because they want to hide the powerholes, at least they are now difficult to see because of the black paint...
     
    #16
  17. mca10spro

    mca10spro New User

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2006
    Messages:
    47
    Okay, Okay. You are right. It's not the new N-tour2. Wow, you guys have a lot of time on your hands. I never woud have guessed it. Most players don't play with the racquet that you think it is. I don't know why. I think when a player finds a racquet that works for them, they are reluctant to change. Obviously the racquet companies want them to play with the latest and so called greatest racquets, but there is always an adjustment period when you switch to a different racquet.

    I am bummed out because I teach tennis and I play with the N-tour and there aren't any players that I know of that hit with this racquet. Actually I saw Rick Leach at the WTT tournament in Houston playing with this racquet. I used to pride myself in playing with the same racquet as Todd Martin for many years. Now that he is retired, I don't know what racquet he is using. I feel like I am getting old and can't play with the real players racquets anymore. It's just too much work.

    Have fun and see you on the courts.

    Mike
     
    #17
  18. jura

    jura Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,478
    He NEVER used an nTour or H Tour or any Hammer or something like this!
     
    #18
  19. MLoutch

    MLoutch Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Messages:
    198
    All you need to do is go to the Family Circle Cup facility in Charleston, SC - in a glass case in the lobby of the pro shop is one of Justines sticks that she used to win the tourny - it is NOT in any way an ntour (v1 or 2).

    It's open to the public anytime so if you get the chance to stop by and play there they have a few other frames on the wall from past winners -
     
    #19
  20. mca10spro

    mca10spro New User

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2006
    Messages:
    47
    Okay, now don't tell me that Todd Martin never used the Hammer 6.2 (black & white AKA "the skunk") Then he switched to the Orange Hammer 5.2 before going to the H-tour (black with the orange trim).

    Let me know.
     
    #20
  21. ericsson

    ericsson Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,679
    Location:
    Land of beer and chocolate


    never heard of the word paintjob??
     
    #21
  22. jura

    jura Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,478
    It was always his old Wilson Pro Staff something (one of these dual tapered frames of the early 90s) with an 18/20 pattern. (Davenport uses the same or similar.) Very heavy, far away from any Hammer.
     
    #22
  23. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

    Joined:
    May 31, 2006
    Messages:
    6,297
    1. She's not a recreational player, and she has a once in 10 or 20 years single-handed backhand for a female player. Why try to compare her to joe average male.

    2. Evidently the answer to this is yes. Read jura's posts, he's clearly legit, and so then watch her play!

    3. Travelrajm states that as a generalisation. Therefore it's not always true.

    4. Clearly there's not such a thing, or jura wouldn't be posting. Believe it or not, but most professionals care less about racquet geek stuff than most people on this board! They find a frame they play well with from their sponsor's range, find good strings, get it customised if necessary, and then go practice for 20 or 30 hours a week. Practice makes a good player. A good racquet does not make a good player. Constantly changing racquets and strings and tensions and setups.... makes for even less of a good player!
     
    #23
  24. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,022
    I didn't say anything about pros caring about racquets or not, and I am not changing my racquet because of Justine. Some pros may not care, and some like Blake may go to the extent of playing with a Dunlop while endorsed by Prince. And Rod Laver reportedly once played with a wooden racquet painted to look like aluminum. So it is not true that all pros couldn't care less and just pick from their sponsor's offerings. And if that offering includes custom drilling patterns like Federer supposedly uses near the sweetspot, it is not exactly a simple modification.

    I was just curious whether it is ethical (legal or not is another issue) for a stringer to reveal to the whole world via this board that a certain player uses a PJ and told him so. Whether (s)he cares about it or not, the sponsor might. I mean, wasn't there a lawsuit about the ball Tiger was using? If his caddy told everyone Tiger was not using the ball he was supposed to be, I am sure there will be repurcussions. There is big money involved, otherwise why would manufacturers make PJs? Someone said it can cost a few hundred dollars labor to hand-paint a PJ. Clearly there is big money is convincing the average Joe and Jill that the pros use the superconducting nanoparticle racquet with hypothermal vents that was advertised last week in a tennis magazine.
     
    #24
  25. El Diablo

    El Diablo Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,560
    A stringer and a player have a relationship that is one of service provider and client. Whether the player pays directly or indirectly (by performing a service that allows the tournament directors to receive revenue), it is still a relationship of provider and client. Those types of relationships are at least traditionally (though not necessarily legally) confidential, and revealing details seems to me to be not especially ethical (though I enjoy reading them).
     
    #25
  26. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,022
    Glad that somebody shares my opinion. I enjoy getting insider details too, but I would rather get it thru word-of-mouth rumors, not officially posted here. It is different with a guy who got a racquet that was discarded by a pro or even one donated to him. There is no commercial transaction there, and the guy might actually be doing a service exposing paintjobs. A stringer on the other hand is in a different situation. That is why **** is so secretive about the customizations they do.
     
    #26
  27. gb93433

    gb93433 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Messages:
    114
    Cyclists have been represtnting companies for years on bicycles not built by them. When Lance Armstrong rode, he repesented the US postal service but did not ride a bicycle made by them.
     
    #27
  28. jura

    jura Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,478
    I didn't really tell a secret. Everybody can see that Justine never used something else than a HH 5.3 since the end of the 90s. And if she speaks about her stuff to somebody she have seen only twice before in her life than she doesnt expect this to be kept secret. Or she is very naive.
    If a player wants the "secret of his racket" kept secret, he/she shouldn't give it to an official stringing service.
    And even the companies doesn't see this case that serious. I talked t a Head guy and he was speaking very open about pj's and all these things. I. e. he said, that he was surprised to see that a pro uses a real Flexpoint Prestige. (He was talking about Acasuso) So they know that people who are interested in this matter know about pj's. And they talk about it. Racket companies are not the CIA.
     
    #28
  29. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,022
    Nor did they claim that he did, and they are not in the bicycles business.

    But Wilson and other companies are.
     
    #29
  30. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,022
    He talked to YOU. He would probably not say that to an "outsider".
     
    #30
  31. D.  Nelson

    D. Nelson Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    687
    JURA is right......period..... :) !!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    #31
  32. jura

    jura Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,478
    There were about half a dozen outsiders around us who could listen to us. BTW: He wasn't talking to me as a stringer, I wasn't stringing at this tournament and he doesn't know me as a stringer.
    10 metres away was tha booth of the stringing service and evrybody could go there and see what the pros really use - it's not such a secret service business as some people think.
     
    #32
  33. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

    Joined:
    May 31, 2006
    Messages:
    6,297
    Very well said. I also think it's hard to keep secrets amongst, gee, 100's of stringers! If you added up every stringer working at every pro tournament worldwide in a year - and then asked them to keep a secret, it's not going to happen. Now make that secret a question they get asked semi-often - it's really really not going to happen! :)
     
    #33
  34. El Diablo

    El Diablo Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,560
    A few hundred people can't keep things secret?? There are millions of physicians, attorneys, accountants in this country who keep their clients' business strictly secret. You seem like a nice fellow, Jura, but if you have trouble making a distinction between conversation in hearing range of a few people and posting information on a website, I'm glad you're in the stringing booth rather than the confession booth.
     
    #34
  35. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

    Joined:
    May 31, 2006
    Messages:
    6,297
    Individually, sure. But here we're talking about hundreds (or thousands) of stringers, who are many ways not that connected with one another, who aren't signed up to keep things a secret, who aren't paid large wages to do so, who usually aren't even asked to keep things a secret.

    The jobs you mention - a very different affair. It's a key part of the job, the confidentiality reigns supreme. And the more you know, and the more valuable the things you know - the more you're paid, it's how things work. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it's just true! The players who really care about keeping things a secret can have their own stringers - hell - most of the big guns can easily afford it and would certainly be doing it if they at all felt it was necessary!

    That's the most pointless of criticisms. You too seem like a nice person, but based on that display of logic I'm glad you're not a supreme court judge!
     
    #35
  36. jura

    jura Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,478
    If I string for a special player in my "own business" and he has a customized pj and we have a "special relationship" I will never tell any details to anybody. But the stringing booth at a great tournament is (mostly) a public area. So a player can't expect any "secrets" to be kept. Although I don't post everything I was told by players.
     
    #36
  37. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,022
    That is a word of mouth or hearsay rumor. It is Ok to pass this along by word of mouth. But what about posting it?

    OK even if I grant you that one, what about Justine's conversation with you? Was it also in a public area where everyone could hear? Weren't you stringing for her then?
     
    #37
  38. jura

    jura Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,478
    I was stringing for her and she just picked up her racket when I asked her. There were about a hand full of people around us in a public area.
     
    #38
  39. The nCode nTour Guy

    The nCode nTour Guy New User

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    20
    http://www.wilson.com/wilson/racq/flash.jsp?inSp=tn&bmLocale=en
    then go to equipment, rackets, ncode. then press on ntour two then hit specs and it will say ''The choice of top players incl. #1 Lindsay Davenport and Justine Henin-Hardenne'' i just wanted to post that i know i might be wrong but i just wanted to post that.
     
    #39
  40. billyboybeacon

    billyboybeacon Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Messages:
    148
    thank you Jura for a peak into the stringing area...many of us really appreciate your willingness to share..for those who feel that he is giving away military secrets--get a life
     
    #40
  41. D.  Nelson

    D. Nelson Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    687
    I agree with Billyboy ....some of you would rather spend time challenging, with a wistful application of YOUR perspective on 'semantics' ...rather than getting enJOYment from someone sharing some good information....
     
    #41
  42. scotus

    scotus Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    7,611
    As I posted before in this thread, Justine is very open about the equipment she uses. Just go to the section where justine answers her fans' questions in www.henin-hardenne.be. It's all there. She openly states that she still uses the Hammer racquet.
     
    #42
  43. DragonFly

    DragonFly Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    307
    that picture of her finishing a slice backhand is very very cool. it took me a minute of wondering what stroke she was doing though.
     
    #43
  44. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

    Joined:
    May 31, 2006
    Messages:
    6,297
    Here's a more direct link and the text that will save anyone some time. That said, some of these answers are from 2004, but it wouldn't surprise me if things haven't changed.

    http://www.henin-hardenne.be/bin/questions.asp?Lang=en&page=10

    Q Dear Justine, I have a question about rackets. How do you choose your racket? I'm 12 years old and I want to play tennis but I can't choose a racket. What do you do to find the right one?
    P.S. I really adore you and Pierre-Yves.

    A Thats' a hard thing to say actually. I can't give that much advice about it because I 've always been someone who didn't payed a lot of attention to that stuff. I am playing with the same racket, the same strings for years now, just because I found my way in it. But I guess that you aren't at your physical apex yet at the age of 12 so you should mind the weight of your racket. It will be yours for a long time. I am playing with the "Hammer system", there are a lot of players who don't like this. It's very personal, everyone choses for him/herself.
     
    #44
  45. neo

    neo Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2006
    Messages:
    263
    I wonder if some consumer rights group could launch a class action suit against manufacturers for this. It is obviously a deceptive advertisement and is illegal. If Wilson says in it's product advertisements that HH plays with nTour and yet knows very well that it is not what she actually plays with (Wilson supplies her with PJs), then it is deceptive advertisement and Wilson is breaking the law. How many people have bought the racket "because Federer uses it"?

    I know this has been going on for a long time and is considered "normal" in this industry, but it is still illegal and unethical, in my view. I felt compelled to say this after reading someone else's statement in this thread that it is somehow "unethical" to tell the truth and "ethical" to perpetuate the lies so a manufacturer can continue to make money fraudulently.
     
    #45
  46. scotus

    scotus Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    7,611

    Thanks for the more exact link.

    By the way, this is not the only place where she has revealed the real racquet that she uses. I have read one of her recent interviews (sorry, I just don't remember where) in which she states the same fact.
     
    #46
  47. scotus

    scotus Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    7,611
    It's the most beautiful slice shot I have seen, and I have it as a wall paper on my computer.
     
    #47
  48. lakis92

    lakis92 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2007
    Messages:
    287
    Location:
    Greece
    Pros using Hammer? Can't they get enough head speed on their own. I thought they were all head light
     
    #48
  49. 2 Cent

    2 Cent Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    316
    i just wanted to make a correction about Henin's paintjob racquet.
    she does not use the Hyper Hammer 5.3. She uses the Hyper Hammer 4.3.
    The 5.3 never had Power Holes technology. the Hyper Hammer 4.3 did use Power Holes.
    however, the other main "Hammer" racquet that used Power Holes was the Hammer 6.4. that's the one that Serena won the US Open with in 1999, and it's the same racquet she's been using for years with a paintjob, until recently. i wouldn't be surprised if Henin was using the Hammer 6.4 as well, instead of the Hyper Hammer 4.3. both racquets came out around 1999.
    ironic how both girls are using the Hammer Power Holes racquets, and they both have found great success with it. i'm surprised Wilson stopped making Power Holes racquets.

    actually, i noticed the 2 Williams Sister special edition black and white racquets do have Power Holes technology on them. however, i don't think Serena uses Power Holes on her racquet when she plays anymore.
     
    #49
  50. jura

    jura Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,478
    Sorry but you're wrong! The 5.3 DID HAD Power Holes in the first year - at least here in Europe. Take a look at some old pics of Henin (Getty #51563894) when she used the real one: There you can see the PH and a silver colored area around. And the HH 4.3 came one year later than 5.3 and 6.3.
    The background to "killing" the PH in my eyes was as followed: First it was complicated to string. But mainly it was a problem of clay and dust. Due to the holes there would come clay and other little pices into the frame and it would start to rattle. Due to this the frames were filled with foam. But this made the rackets more heavy and more head heavy. And at this time weight was a very big point for marketing. (Head just changed the market with the Ti. S6 and every company tried to make rackets even more lighter.)
     
    #50

Share This Page