"He's the greatest but I'm the best "

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by The Dark Knight, Jun 11, 2013.

  1. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    I see so a 4 year age difference for players in the past is different than players today?

    I actually agree with you in a way . Players are stronger today , In better shape today and don't do coke before a match .

    So today's 31 is the new 25.
     
  2. VPhuc tennis fan

    VPhuc tennis fan Professional

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    Haven't seen a guy hating Fed so much as this TDK! How many threads to diminish Fed has he propped up in this past month? Is it in the order of 5-7? Wow! Boy, he holds a grudge or something?!!! Even to my worst enemy, I don't do that. LOL.
    Hey, remember guys, perhaps one of the best compliments you can pay to someone is to INCESSANTLY attack him/her. Who cares to attack someone beneath you, right? So for TDK to spend countless hours copying/pasting so and so's words about Fed not being greater than Rafa, and then flaming the topic further with his own comments, he must sincerely believe that Rafa is worth SQUASH compared to Fed. Otherwise, we would have had 10 Rafa-bashing threads by TDK. Your thoughts? Just too hilarious to see the extent of his hate!
     
  3. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    Of course. What you resist,persists. He will end up rooting for Fed.
    It's like why fighting a war for peace never works. It's psychology. Your attract in you life things that you think about the most.
     
  4. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Phuc and friends.....

    No hate whatsoever . I don't know what your talking about . What I said is purely logical .

    I'm sorry that you don't have an answer.

    The problem is that people never admit when you have a point . But honestly I have made quite a valid one.
     
  5. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    If people never admit you have a point, how can you have a point?
     
  6. VPhuc tennis fan

    VPhuc tennis fan Professional

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    So why don't you attack and diminish Rafa instead? If Rafa is truly superior to Fed? Personally, I don't pay attention or certainly give my time to attack someone INFERIOR to me? What does it earn me? Like if I beat up a 95-year dude to KO, where's the glory in that? So if Fed is that 95 year old guy, bashing me earns you what? More glory to your Rafa?
    Logical? Certainly not! We don't care you admit or not but your pattern of posting certainly points to your thinking that Fed is AHEAD of Rafa, and not the other way around!
     
  7. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    TMF, "If" is not always wrong. For instance we must concede that some players of the past would have won more GS tournaments than Federer if open era came earlier. Neglecting this is a clear sign of ignorance!!
     
  8. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    I don't want something new. I want something old: the great old tennis of Laver and Rosewall with all the backhand strength, the volleys and the touch...
     
  9. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    I'm not attacking or diminishing anyone . I'm giving my honest opinion .

    Nadal beats Federer and therefore Federer can't be the best.

    To me it's really quite simple .

    As for the field.....Nadal is the only one who leads the big four while Federer is losing to two.

    Why is this attacking Fed? No I don't think Fed is the greatest ......but I am not "attacking " him in any way shape or form except in you delusional fanatical mind .
     
  10. Bhagi Katbamna

    Bhagi Katbamna Hall of Fame

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    Germany and Japan would disagree(as would the US).

    I'm not sure it would be settled if Nadal won 19 majors.
     
  11. adil1972

    adil1972 Professional

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    the best player is the only male player to lose 3 consecutive grand slams finals all of them to djokovic
     
  12. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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  13. Ecoplex

    Ecoplex Guest

    Obsessed dude is obsessed...
     
  14. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Sorry. I read it over a couple of different days and don't remember seeing your explanation of this point.
     
  15. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    All posters should be capable of this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2013
  16. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    I agree with this part wholeheartedly, but I relate it more to the board and to those posters who make this their life's mission.
     
  17. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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  18. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Maybe they can win more in the amateur slams but not the modern slams in new millennium. It's too hard just to make the final alone, and you got guys with tremendous talent still searching for their first final appearance.
     
  19. kandamrgam

    kandamrgam Hall of Fame

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    And Fed FH feds Nadal BH. Simple it is really. The bottom line is Nadal has a superior BH with which he can go DTL and change the course of the rally, and also doesn't crumble when playing the CC rallies.

    Match up is a stupid excuse. Only two things are true:

    1. Nadal has a small advantage being lefty, just the same he has against the 90% of the tour anyway. So nothing specific to Roger.

    2. Nadal's bh holds better, period.


    When you phrase it as "match-up" it looks like an excuse. An excuse used to cover the weakness of the BH to cope with high balls. Djokovic, Nishikori, Davydenko or even Wawrinka, Ljubicic etc deals with it better. I'm not questioning the existence of the phenomenon that is match up. I'm only questioning the implication that its a valid excuse. Calling it weakness is better, since nicely exposes what it is.

    Guess what, that already happened. They played thrice at Wimbledon, Federer leads 2-1. They played thrice at Roland Garros, Nadal leads 3-0. Played many times in indoor conditions, will give the lead to Federer 1-0.

    So total: 4-3 in favour of Nadal.

    Now 3 HC matches remain. If AO '09 and their outdoor HC matches give us any indication, then Nadal will lead that too. All in all Nadal's mastery over Federer is well established.



    Math help us a bit here too. From whatever happened, we could extrapolate to make the favourables even. This is a bit old stat, but still relevant. Comparison of H2H among Big4, correcting the irregularities in how they met:

    [​IMG]
    (Valid from 2004-13)

    Look at the stat at the right in each table, where "Normalization" takes place. The various irregularities corrected are:

    1. Period. This corrects and assumes all players have met each other equally in each of the three periods, 04-07, 08-10, 11-13

    2. Surface. Lets you know how the H2H looks if they played each other on all surfaces equally. Also in ratio 4:7:1 (C:H:G) which is the actual tour.

    3. Outdoor-indoor

    4. Match up. This will let you know who would have won the most if they met the other 3 equally.

    I should say the Nadal domination of Big4 is quite complete.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2014
  20. SpinToWin

    SpinToWin G.O.A.T.

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    only issue is that H2H is absolutely irrelevant. Good effort though.
     
  21. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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  22. bee7

    bee7 Banned

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    "I am the best player in history but I never won WTF. WTF?"

    "I am the best player in history only when my uncle coaching en told me to serve to the middle on match point no?"

    "I am the best player in history en get fined for on court coaching no?"

    "I am the best player in history en always take my time en take too long to serve, no?"

    "I am the best player in history only when I am healthy, no?"

    The world: But you never ever been healthy, you always have illness and injury. So you are not the best player in history because you are never healthy.

    "I am 200% healthy on clay no?"

    You never won WTF!

    "Well I gonna win WTF when it is moved to Roland Garros no?"

    Yes they will move it there, but it will be on indoor wood.

    "It is too dangerous for health no? Clay much better no?"

    Ok then, it will be on blue clay.

    "Pootademierda"
     
  23. ARKustom93

    ARKustom93 Semi-Pro

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    Nice one ... Really liked the "indoor wood"/"blue clay" bit;)
     
  24. coloskier

    coloskier Legend

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    Most tennis fans could care a rats arse about FO, or Olympic Gold. All they care about is GS's, Weeks at #1.
     
  25. kandamrgam

    kandamrgam Hall of Fame

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    H2H is irrelevant in statistical analysis, yes absolutely. Like when someone talks about only on achievements, percentages etc, yes you're right. Since H2H is not an important metric in tennis. Quite oddly, most Bull fans prefer anyway stat based analysis, and still brings H2H there.

    H2H is relevant when greatness is based on subjective criteria, ie, from a personal view point. Lot of intangibles make it to that list including style, technique, ease, talent etc. For eg, people might say "Federer is the best I have seen, his shot making is the finest, so I pick him for goat, but his bh was a weakness, someone could exploit it badly, so not a complete player" kind of... you know.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2014
  26. kandamrgam

    kandamrgam Hall of Fame

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    Match ups do exist, except its connotation is simply wrong. Match up serves no excuse. It's simply weakness.

    In case of Nadal-Davy, its much less of a match up, relatively speaking. Nadal is simply outplayed on BH side.
     
  27. bee7

    bee7 Banned

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    Wood is natural no? Good for your health no?
     
  28. The_Mental_Giant

    The_Mental_Giant Hall of Fame

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    Who cares? they never played at slams , so Davy owned rafa BO3 in HC, but that accounted for a very short span of time.

    Rafa and Fed have played 2004-2014 so you can kind of make a fair comparison across their careers, except rafa vs pre prime/early fed, because rafa just wasnt there yet.

    They coincided for 80% of both careers, Most matches of rafa vs Davy were 2006-2008 period that about 3 seassons from 11 the spaniard has played at competitive ATP level, and never took place at GS level.

    So the H2H between rafa and Davy isnt relevant becuse?

    1) You are comparing 2 players of vastly different career achievements
    2) The overall h2h is only led by 1 match.
    3) even if you take hc they most matches (at least 5 of those 6 wins of davydenko) took place in less than two seassons span, hardly enough long to make a comparison career-wise. (mid 2008 to early 2010)
    4) They never met at slams, only BO3 matches, and BO5 is a big measure in rivalry, and most likely faulf of davydenko that they didnt meet, because rafa was winning slams and reaching finals in that period.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2014
  29. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    It is pathetic for a 14 major winner to have a losing record against a player who did not even win 1 major.

    No other way to look at it.
     
  30. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Precisely.

    Losing to a lesser player is far worse than losing to a 14 slam champions.
     
  31. kandamrgam

    kandamrgam Hall of Fame

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    Not a unanimous conclusion though. Some ppl rate it the other way. You may lose to average ones, but not to the very bests.. The other way of looking at it makes it more obvious. You may win 1000 matches against mugs on the trot, who cares. Can you dominate the very best?

    Regardless, the points by "The Mental Giant" still stands, its less of a blemish than Federer's H2H against Nadal. Not for the factor who Nadal is or who Davydenko is, but for the circumstances. Not a single Slam match, invalid H2H hence.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2014
  32. Topspin_80

    Topspin_80 Rookie

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    Ha ha you are so funny, I cain't wait for your next post.

    By the way, is Pootademierda your mother maiden name?
     
  33. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    Everyone has his kryptonite. Federer is just unlucky his is also another goat contender.

    Imagine if Davydenko was a goat contender, how worse those beatings would be.
     
  34. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

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    Spot on MN........:)
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
  35. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    I thought you guys are real Nadal fans and only love seeing him play and you don't care about him breaking the slam record?

    I feel you guys watch him more because of him breaking records than because of his game, style and attitude.

    Why do you always talk about slam record when you talk about Nadal and h2h and almost never about his shotmaking and style.
     
  36. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

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    Hahaha......you're barking at the wrong poster dude. I don't wallow in talks about Slam record like you Fed fanatics. I'm not a paranoid and insecure type, like TMF........:twisted:
     
  37. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    Well, you were agreeing with Michael who was describing in detail how Nadal, can break Fed's record. So, I took this as you discussing it.

    But, yeah, it's funny how some my fellow Fed fans are insecure. They were listening h2h talk for so many years, that they started to believe the trolling or what?

    It's so funny to me too. I guess it's like this, if you start telling a skinny hot supermodel that she is fat and ugly, she will start believing it in a few years.
    Beliefs and consciousness is contagious.

    That is the danger if you engage in debates. What you resist it persists. Telling yourself what you don't want you attract it. Like this, DON'T THINK ABOUT THE PINK ELEPHANT.

    Or this: DON'T THINK ABOUT THE H2H. H2H DOESN'T MATTER.

    The more you say it more insecure you become and more you believe it :)
     
  38. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

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    You obviously missed the mark. I was commending MN's "prophesying" about Rafa's USO chances last 2013 and Rafa's Wimbledon "rough chances". Oh well, posting here in TW should always be about Fed according to some Fed fanatics....:twisted:
     
  39. clayqueen

    clayqueen Hall of Fame

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    This should be entitled 'The Fedfans Solace' thread where they come and take comfort for the Nadal/Federer h2h.
     
  40. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yeah Rafa continues to be underrated at the USO. Good prediction indeed :)
     
  41. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    I didn't say it's anything wrong with that, just stating a fact that you and Michael care more about the slam record than Rafa's game.

    Me, I only care about Fed's game as long as he wins.
     
  42. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    Don't speak for me. I don't care about records. I enjoy watching Nadal play tennis. Do I want to see him WIN? Of course. Whether Federer had 3 majors or 17. You just sound extremely uncomfortable for no apparent reason. Look at your last sentence, that's how I feel about Nadal. Winning comes with the terrirory, should you want Federer to lose? Should I want Nadal to lose? Ok then. If you think I saw Nadal reaching double-digit slams in 2007, you're sadly mistaken.
     
  43. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    we are still holding....
     
  44. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

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    Hahaha.........you are hilarious. I never delve in these Slam record non sense. Rafa is my favorite player and, as such, obviously, i want him to win. You will never find a post of mine where I HAMMER about your Slam record talks. You are one delusional Fedfan
     
  45. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    Apparently 14 is too close for comfort for some of his more unstable fans. We're supposed to root for Rafa to lose every match now? :lol: It's not like I wanted Federer to win Wimbledon just 2 months ago or anything :confused: The man can have 30 slams for all I care. If Nadal is active and participating, he's my fav. player, of course I want him to win, for reasons that have jack-all to do with Federer. I don't think either of them will have the major record as long as we think anyway. It's trivial.
     
  46. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    Maybe I am. But I never understood this: Why do people tell delusional people they are delusional. Lol. Like they will know it or admit it. They can't since that is the main reason why they are delusional.

    So, I find it really stupid when people try to convince crazy or delusional people they are crazy. It's like trying to teach a monkey an alphabet.

    So, maybe it's you who are trying to teach monkey an alphabet who have problems :).
     
  47. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    Oh, sorry, I got you wrong. You only care that Rafa has the slam record. It doesn't matter if he beats Federer or anyone for it. It's just a coincidence Federer is the one to beat. I guess you would be still cheering for Rafa even if Sampras had 17 majors.

    So, maybe I was wrong. You only care about slam record, not that Rafa beats Federer's record. Hey, I can admit when I'm wrong.
     
  48. beast of mallorca

    beast of mallorca Legend

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    These paranoid Fedfans want us to be as "Consumed" as them regarding their record obsessions. Too funny indeed. :twisted:
     
  49. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    Id be cheering for Nadal to win every tournament he enters, if the major record was 10 and he had already passed it, or if it was 100 and I knew he was retiring next year. I don't care about the tally. How you somehow make that about the slam record, is your business, and I'm not going to spend another second trying to convince you otherwise, when I know you're just pained that he's so close.

    :lol: good luck with that.
     
  50. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    It doesn't pain me he is close, it pains me he is extremely close, so he actually has a chance. Totally different situation.

    And now slam count with combination of the h2h, I can't sleep. It's too much pain.

    You have no idea, how bad it is. I'm trying to delude myself that Federer will still be the goat without the slam record, but it doesn't work.
     

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